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Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

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Old 07-06-2008, 09:39 PM   #31
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re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

sandtrapjack:

Agree that WRs often do not set the NFL world afire as rookies. But look at what these rookies are trying to augment:

Brandon Lloyd is gone - - and hopefully forgotten by everyone at this point.

Santana Moss catches LOADS of first down passes in the middle of the field - - but when it really matters down in the red zone he is very - VERY - ordinary.

ARE is really ordinary all of the time.

Now, if the new WRs can't work into the system and make the totality of the Skins WRs better than the MOss/Lloyd/ARE/Thrash crew has been for the past two years, then the draftees SUCK - - and it doesn't matter even a little bit what the scouting services say about them.

Prediction: None of the Skins' WR draftees will be unanimous All-Pro selections and none will be player of the year - - but they will as a group be better than Brandon Lloyd was in his lamentable stint here in DC.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:01 PM   #32
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re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

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Originally Posted by sandtrapjack View Post
Rare is the rookie WR or DE that comes in their first year and is an impact player. Rare indeed.
Especially WR's. Outside of QB it takes them the longest to make an impact.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:24 PM   #33
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re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

I disagree with the notion that WR's are generally unable to impact their respective teams their first year. The issue with WR's is that their bust factor is high. Many highly drafted WR's don't contribute their first year, or second, or third. They lack the intelligence to grasp the precision required for the NFL and/or the maturity to devote themselves to their craft as professionals. Indeed, the nature of the position tends to attract the most immature athletes on a team.

However, recent history shows several players who have been able to make important contributions to their teams during their first season; Dwayne Bowe, Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes, Reggie Brown, Greg Jennings, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans, Michael Clayon, Andre Johnson, Donte Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Antonio Bryant, Anquan Boldin, and Deion Branch are a few. For every Braylond Edwards or Javon Walker, who took a few years to mature, there seems to be two Troy Williamson's or Mike Williams', players who never adapted to the NFL. My point being that the issue with WR's is not the learning curve.

Thus, while expecting our rookies to notch 80 catches, 10 TD's and make the Probowl is probably not realistic, it is not out of the question for them to help out with 40-50 catches and a few scores. Don't forget, as SC pointed out, the guy these rookies are replacing never caught a TD in two years, so I am not willing to accept that they won't help us immediately.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:36 PM   #34
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re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

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Originally Posted by Paintrain View Post
Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.

I would put GW's bunch in the overachieving category in his years here. Look at our line, although some solid veterans, we plugged people in and they got the job done. The one year that our D didn't play as well, i heard an NFL scout on the radio say that our group has never been that talented and it just caught up to us...we'd maxed out our mediocre talent. The next year we were back in the top 10. I think alot of people undervalue what GW did here. Don't get me wrong i'm hoping for a great D this year, but I'm a little concerned. Blache doesn't have top 10 D's in his coaching past. His defenses have been middle of the pack.
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:53 PM   #35
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re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

Whatever. I'll give them Kudos when they field a team that goes deep into the playoffs or has back to back playoff seasons; until then I'll recognize them as nothing more or less than two people who have been running a mediocre NFL team for nearly a decade.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:08 AM   #36
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.
"Almost" only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and Mike Alstott "touchdowns"

I don't know how "we all know" he was the best man for the job. That seems a bit hard to just know.

Campbell was just starting to learn Saunders' offense, that's not the same as "mastering" it. And if he in fact was close to "mastering" it then the WCO should take him less than half the time.

Sure, some may say the draft was questionable. But it seemed like you were pretty ok with Davis, and the small school pick in Rhinehart based on these

http://www.thewarpath.net/445135-post106.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445127-post103.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445113-post97.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445111-post96.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/444893-post43.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445271-post135.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:37 AM   #37
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
"Almost" only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and Mike Alstott "touchdowns"

I don't know how "we all know" he was the best man for the job. That seems a bit hard to just know.

Campbell was just starting to learn Saunders' offense, that's not the same as "mastering" it. And if he in fact was close to "mastering" it then the WCO should take him less than half the time.

Sure, some may say the draft was questionable. But it seemed like you were pretty ok with Davis, and the small school pick in Rhinehart based on these

http://www.thewarpath.net/445135-post106.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445127-post103.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445113-post97.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445111-post96.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/444893-post43.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445271-post135.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)
damn those infernal mods and their ability to use the search!

outlaw the search, and free our thoughts from the chains of continuity!
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:20 AM   #38
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

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Originally Posted by djnemo65 View Post
I disagree with the notion that WR's are generally unable to impact their respective teams their first year. The issue with WR's is that their bust factor is high. Many highly drafted WR's don't contribute their first year, or second, or third. They lack the intelligence to grasp the precision required for the NFL and/or the maturity to devote themselves to their craft as professionals. Indeed, the nature of the position tends to attract the most immature athletes on a team.

However, recent history shows several players who have been able to make important contributions to their teams during their first season; Dwayne Bowe, Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes, Reggie Brown, Greg Jennings, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans, Michael Clayon, Andre Johnson, Donte Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Antonio Bryant, Anquan Boldin, and Deion Branch are a few. For every Braylond Edwards or Javon Walker, who took a few years to mature, there seems to be two Troy Williamson's or Mike Williams', players who never adapted to the NFL. My point being that the issue with WR's is not the learning curve.

Thus, while expecting our rookies to notch 80 catches, 10 TD's and make the Probowl is probably not realistic, it is not out of the question for them to help out with 40-50 catches and a few scores. Don't forget, as SC pointed out, the guy these rookies are replacing never caught a TD in two years, so I am not willing to accept that they won't help us immediately.
Great point.. Also, let's not act like we are counting on Thomas and Kelly to become the #1 threat at WR.. We have 2 solid options already in Cooley and Moss and an ok one in Randle-El.. They are going to be counted on to be situationally effective. Kelly will probably see a lot of time in the red zone, but maybe not before that. Thomas may be a "starter" by virtue of being in on 3 WR sets, but he'll likely be no better than the 3rd or 4th read on most plays. That's much different from most highly drafted WR who are expected to make a Randy Moss like impact from day one.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:38 AM   #39
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

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Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
sandtrapjack:

Agree that WRs often do not set the NFL world afire as rookies. But look at what these rookies are trying to augment:

Brandon Lloyd is gone - - and hopefully forgotten by everyone at this point.

Santana Moss catches LOADS of first down passes in the middle of the field - - but when it really matters down in the red zone he is very - VERY - ordinary.

ARE is really ordinary all of the time.

Now, if the new WRs can't work into the system and make the totality of the Skins WRs better than the MOss/Lloyd/ARE/Thrash crew has been for the past two years, then the draftees SUCK - - and it doesn't matter even a little bit what the scouting services say about them.

Prediction: None of the Skins' WR draftees will be unanimous All-Pro selections and none will be player of the year - - but they will as a group be better than Brandon Lloyd was in his lamentable stint here in DC.
No disrespect intended. On the contrary, I think the way the off season as gone for Washington is a direction they should have gone 3 years ago.

Once you draft a potential franchise QB in Campbell, the next step should be drafting and surrounding him with a supporting cast. I think the additions Thomas and Kelly are a solid step in that direction.

If I were you I would table the Red Zone concerns for a while. Santana Moss is a speedy reciever and is great for getting a team from one 20 yard line to the other 20 yard line. But once in the Red Zone, speed does not help on a short field. This is where I think the addition of Kelly will "show it's teeth". He has the size to be a great red zone target. And with Cooley and Kelly (along with Portis) in the Red Zone, well lets just say I think that is a great combination of size and talent that makes the future very bright indeed.

No disrespect to Joe Gibbs, but his aversion to throwing the ball in the red zone is very well known. But with the West Coast offense now coming in place with Zorn, it is just the opposite. Campbell looks to be getting those supporting cast members in place. It may not be this year, but I think the 'Skins took a substatial leap forward this off-season.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:22 AM   #40
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
"Almost" only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and Mike Alstott "touchdowns"

I don't know how "we all know" he was the best man for the job. That seems a bit hard to just know.

Campbell was just starting to learn Saunders' offense, that's not the same as "mastering" it. And if he in fact was close to "mastering" it then the WCO should take him less than half the time.

Sure, some may say the draft was questionable. But it seemed like you were pretty ok with Davis, and the small school pick in Rhinehart based on these

http://www.thewarpath.net/445135-post106.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445127-post103.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445113-post97.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445111-post96.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/444893-post43.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445271-post135.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)
The thread is are we giving them kudos. I'm fine with the picks. Always have been. But I'm not ready to call these two Bill Pollian. To me, it's seems like a high risk, high reward draft.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:24 AM   #41
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
"Almost" only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and Mike Alstott "touchdowns"

I don't know how "we all know" he was the best man for the job. That seems a bit hard to just know.

Campbell was just starting to learn Saunders' offense, that's not the same as "mastering" it. And if he in fact was close to "mastering" it then the WCO should take him less than half the time.

Sure, some may say the draft was questionable. But it seemed like you were pretty ok with Davis, and the small school pick in Rhinehart based on these

http://www.thewarpath.net/445135-post106.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445127-post103.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445113-post97.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445111-post96.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/444893-post43.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)

http://www.thewarpath.net/445271-post135.html (Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins)
and if you read my post i'm not questioning anyone from small schools. i'm questioning why he was taken in the 3rd round when everyone else had him going in the 5th or 6th.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:52 AM   #42
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

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Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
Folks:

The Skins' FO supposedly chased CJ to the point where they supposedly offered a really big price for him.

That's conjecture. Here's a fact:


That deal never happened. I would not have been happy with a deal of the kind that was widely reported but I don't have to get my knickers in a knot over it because - - It ... never ... happened.


By the way, the Skins' FO may also have considered moving training camp this year to the Xygork Nebula. That would have been a bad idea. But they didn't to that either...

Will the off-season restraint shown by Danny Boy and Vinnie Boombatz assure the Skins of a Super Bowl slot? Of course not.

But I like the idea that there are so many players showing up at the beginning of training camp who have shown that they can actually perform on the field at the level of an NFL playoff team.

If you want to look at this from a negative perspective, the new coaching staff can obviously f*ck this up with incompetence or irrationality. The Redskins COULD be 6-10 this year; and if they are, you can point the finger at the guys on the sideline and in the coaches' booth - - because the players have shown they can perform at a higher level that that.

The Skins can also go 4-12 this year if the football gods decide to heap injuries on the team and make the ball bounce away from the Skins all season long.

But as the team goes into training camp with everyone as healthy and fit as one can expect them to be at this point in the calendar, the Skins' FO has done well by the players on the team. They have a legitmate shot at the playoffs and a legitimate shot at playing in the NFC title game. This isn't "fanboy talk"; the Skins can make this happen with a relatively injury-free season and some breaks along the way. I do NOT think the Skins are the best team in the NFC, but they are one of the teams "in the mix" to make it deep into the playoffs where anything can happen.

Are the Skins my pick for the NFC rep to the Super Bowl as of July 2008? No, they are not. But they are closer to being in the Super Bowl than they are to having a pick in the top five of the draft in 2009...
Good thread, good posts. Nice to see you coming around, you may have to change your screen-name

May I inerest you in a cool, refreshing beverage....possibly the K.A.? LOL
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:41 PM   #43
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

You know it's been an uneventful offseason for the Redskins when all people have to complain about is a move that wasn't even made.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:00 PM   #44
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

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I would put GW's bunch in the overachieving category in his years here. Look at our line, although some solid veterans, we plugged people in and they got the job done. The one year that our D didn't play as well, i heard an NFL scout on the radio say that our group has never been that talented and it just caught up to us...we'd maxed out our mediocre talent. The next year we were back in the top 10. I think alot of people undervalue what GW did here. Don't get me wrong i'm hoping for a great D this year, but I'm a little concerned. Blache doesn't have top 10 D's in his coaching past. His defenses have been middle of the pack.
I thought that when Blache was DC for the bears i think it was 2000 or 2001 his defense was in the top 3 of the league and his scoring defense and defensive touchdowns were at the top, along with turnovers. Am i wrong?
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:15 PM   #45
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Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

Blache did an excellent job as Bears coordinator given the amount of injuries they suffered.
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