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The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

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Old 07-06-2008, 02:08 PM   #1
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The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

We're 3 weeks from the beginning of training camp (when we'll have stuff to actually talk about!) and while Redskins Nation is cautiously optimistic, the national publications are unanimously pessimistic. Being a playoff team 2 of the last 4 years proves we're talented. Remaining competitive in 16 of 17 games last year shows we can play with almost anybody in the league.

At the risk of restating the obvious, what do you see is going to make us either successful or a disappointment as we head into camp?? Here's what I am looking for..

-Explosiveness of the offense: Saying that JC has to adapt and become effective in Zorn's offense isn't enough. This is the new NFC East, where offense is king. The Cowboys have the weapons to put up 28-35 points on any given week. If Philly improves as everyone seems to believe they will, McNabb and Westbrook will be as dangerous as ever with the potential to score on any play. I've never been sold on Eli and even still after the Super Bowl, but he has solid playmakers at every position. Our offense needs to be one that's feared, not just a compliment to a strong defense. Ball control and defense don't cut it in the NFL anymore, Campbell needs to throw 25-30 TD and Portis needs 8-12 TD for us to be among the tops in the league.

-A defensive playmaker to emerge: Under Grilliams we were a bend but don't break unit. The problem was, at times we were too pliable and games fell thru the cracks. While we didn't add anything to the defense, we need someone to become that impact player on defense that changes the game. Brian Dawkins, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Shawn Merriman, Lofa Tatupu-these are players that make things happen that significantly change the game, either by scoring points or changing field position. Either Landry or McIntosh needs to step up to be that guy. It's a matter of going from good to great as an individual. If we want to be elite, we need a consistently elite player.

-Zorn's style: Personally I am not really concerned about Zorn as a head coach. He learned at the foot of one of the contemporary great coaches in Holmgren. We've seen Reid, Gruden, Mooch, McCarthy all be successful from his 'tree' and we've read Zorn is a disciple like the rest. What we don't know is does Zorn have the guts of a gambler or the fear of a soccer mom. There were far too many times in the past few years that we squandered 4th and less than 3 with a punt or kicked a FG rather than go for the kill. What we saw last year from the Pats & Cowboys is where the NFL is headed. Going for it on 4th down, putting intense pressure on the defense for 60 minutes, making someone stop you rather than calling off the dogs. Bravado does need to be tempered though. Some stories from Seattle had Zorn wanting to run a lot of trick plays, but Holmgren said no. We'll have to see if he knows the fine line between aggressive and stupid.
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:57 PM   #2
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

Paintrain:

Obviously the playcalling and the level of agression in the offense this year will be important. I surely don't want to see the Redskins try to make their mark in the league by running a half-dozen "gadget plays" every game. But I wouldn't mind an offense that tried one or two of them at really unexpected times - and down and distance situations - in a game or two.

Of all the players who look to have the potential to be a "game-changer" of the ilk of the players you mentioned, I think Landry is head and shoulders above everyone else on the squad. That doesn't mean I think he's a lock to achieve the status you described but I think he's the man to do it if anyone is to do it.

It will be good to see Campbell throw 25-30 TDs in a season - whether that is this year or next. I think the key is that his TD/INT ratio has to be high. 25 TDs is great; if they come along with 25 INTs, that's not so great.

So I think it's important for Campbell to throw two-and-a-half times as many TDs as INTs. 20TDs and only 8 INTs may not be the best year in the history of football, but it ain't bad either. Of course, 35 TDs and 14 INTs would be better...
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Old 07-06-2008, 04:46 PM   #3
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintrain View Post
We're 3 weeks from the beginning of training camp (when we'll have stuff to actually talk about!) and while Redskins Nation is cautiously optimistic, the national publications are unanimously pessimistic. Being a playoff team 2 of the last 4 years proves we're talented. Remaining competitive in 16 of 17 games last year shows we can play with almost anybody in the league.

At the risk of restating the obvious, what do you see is going to make us either successful or a disappointment as we head into camp?? Here's what I am looking for..

-Explosiveness of the offense: Saying that JC has to adapt and become effective in Zorn's offense isn't enough. This is the new NFC East, where offense is king. The Cowboys have the weapons to put up 28-35 points on any given week. If Philly improves as everyone seems to believe they will, McNabb and Westbrook will be as dangerous as ever with the potential to score on any play. I've never been sold on Eli and even still after the Super Bowl, but he has solid playmakers at every position. Our offense needs to be one that's feared, not just a compliment to a strong defense. Ball control and defense don't cut it in the NFL anymore, Campbell needs to throw 25-30 TD and Portis needs 8-12 TD for us to be among the tops in the league.

-A defensive playmaker to emerge: Under Grilliams we were a bend but don't break unit. The problem was, at times we were too pliable and games fell thru the cracks. While we didn't add anything to the defense, we need someone to become that impact player on defense that changes the game. Brian Dawkins, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Shawn Merriman, Lofa Tatupu-these are players that make things happen that significantly change the game, either by scoring points or changing field position. Either Landry or McIntosh needs to step up to be that guy. It's a matter of going from good to great as an individual. If we want to be elite, we need a consistently elite player.

-Zorn's style: Personally I am not really concerned about Zorn as a head coach. He learned at the foot of one of the contemporary great coaches in Holmgren. We've seen Reid, Gruden, Mooch, McCarthy all be successful from his 'tree' and we've read Zorn is a disciple like the rest. What we don't know is does Zorn have the guts of a gambler or the fear of a soccer mom. There were far too many times in the past few years that we squandered 4th and less than 3 with a punt or kicked a FG rather than go for the kill. What we saw last year from the Pats & Cowboys is where the NFL is headed. Going for it on 4th down, putting intense pressure on the defense for 60 minutes, making someone stop you rather than calling off the dogs. Bravado does need to be tempered though. Some stories from Seattle had Zorn wanting to run a lot of trick plays, but Holmgren said no. We'll have to see if he knows the fine line between aggressive and stupid.
[x] insightful post
[ ] worthless thread
[x] good read
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:09 AM   #4
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGisLordOfTheRings View Post
[x] insightful post
[ ] worthless thread
[x] good read

I'll add an Amen to the above!
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:36 AM   #5
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

i watched the seahawk wild card game yesturday on nfl network. we came up short on the one play when moss gives up on the ball. that was first and ten skins are winning 14 to 13 and they take it back for the score. game over!! we need a little luck with injuries and set jason loose with his new wide outs who hopefully wont give up on a pass in the playoffs!all moss had to do was tackle him!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:11 PM   #6
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

Great post Paintrain!
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:38 PM   #7
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

Good post. I don't really have much to add b/c you made some great points.

Yes, I do think that Landry and MacIntosh could be 2 players that you see emerge as big time playmakers. That is of course if RM can get healthy which he expects to.
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:58 PM   #8
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

i think you had some good points, but the main point that i feel will make or break us this year is the health of our team. I thought we were the best team in the NFC last year at the start of the season, but injuries really hurt us. With question marks on so many players, our team is just a big question.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:19 PM   #9
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
Paintrain:

Obviously the playcalling and the level of agression in the offense this year will be important. I surely don't want to see the Redskins try to make their mark in the league by running a half-dozen "gadget plays" every game. But I wouldn't mind an offense that tried one or two of them at really unexpected times - and down and distance situations - in a game or two.

It will be good to see Campbell throw 25-30 TDs in a season - whether that is this year or next. I think the key is that his TD/INT ratio has to be high. 25 TDs is great; if they come along with 25 INTs, that's not so great.

So I think it's important for Campbell to throw two-and-a-half times as many TDs as INTs. 20TDs and only 8 INTs may not be the best year in the history of football, but it ain't bad either. Of course, 35 TDs and 14 INTs would be better...
after watching some games from the 90's on nfl net the last few weeks you really notice the impact of all the new rule changes in favor of receivers in place now. back then you could grab or hold a guy for second or two, now you cant even touch the receiver past 5 yards. so i'd like to see the skins adopt an offense where you still run the ball (thats what we do best) but rely on the aerial attack for points. so yeah, a more aggressive approach to play calling would be nice.

go skins!
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Old 07-09-2008, 04:38 PM   #10
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

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Originally Posted by Paintrain View Post
Being a playoff team 2 of the last 4 years proves we're talented.
Then what happened in 2006? Having talent and going to the playoffs don't necessarily go hand in hand. It's certainly tough to make the postseason if you don't have talent, but talented players can underperform (Santana Moss is Exhibit A), injuries can take a toll, and then there's coaching.

Do the national publications have a point when they express doubt that there will be a seamless transition from the Hall of Fame legend Joe Gibbs to the completely unproven Jim Zorn? Couldn't it be argued that we as Redskins fans aren't giving enough credence to this fact?

Also, consider that there have been no significant upgrades on either side of the ball; Carlos Rogers and Rocky McIntosh are coming back (we hope) from devastating injuries; and we just saw aging, battered, limping and hobbling offensive line get shuffled around week after week with only the hope that nothing like that will happen again, because, as many people seem to say, Murphy's Law just CAN'T be as bad this year .... right?

Call me a pessimist, and some no doubt will question my status as a "real fan", but is it impossible for anyone else to see how the 2008 season can totally blow up in our face? To me, there are very legitimate concerns everywhere for this team.
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:35 PM   #11
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

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Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
Then what happened in 2006? Having talent and going to the playoffs don't necessarily go hand in hand. It's certainly tough to make the postseason if you don't have talent, but talented players can underperform (Santana Moss is Exhibit A), injuries can take a toll, and then there's coaching.

Do the national publications have a point when they express doubt that there will be a seamless transition from the Hall of Fame legend Joe Gibbs to the completely unproven Jim Zorn? Couldn't it be argued that we as Redskins fans aren't giving enough credence to this fact?

Also, consider that there have been no significant upgrades on either side of the ball; Carlos Rogers and Rocky McIntosh are coming back (we hope) from devastating injuries; and we just saw aging, battered, limping and hobbling offensive line get shuffled around week after week with only the hope that nothing like that will happen again, because, as many people seem to say, Murphy's Law just CAN'T be as bad this year .... right?

Call me a pessimist, and some no doubt will question my status as a "real fan", but is it impossible for anyone else to see how the 2008 season can totally blow up in our face? To me, there are very legitimate concerns everywhere for this team.
Can't agrue w/that IMO & I think Paintrain essentially speaks to that w/the title of the post. There's often not too much difference between 6-10 & 10-6. Add to that, the div. is really tough this year. I believe it'll be improved over last year w/Philly coming back strong.

Schlereth's pick on espn of 8-8 due to "too many questions" is about as safe yet fair as can be. I feel good overall about our offense for some reason, maybe just because zorn is an O guy, but our D has some age & injury issues.

This team has some things going for it & we've got to be excited about the youth, but you're right, 08 could be a really tough one. Let's give Zorn some time.
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:45 PM   #12
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

For me it all starts in the trenches. I know it's cliche, but check out the Skins history. The staple of their 3 Superbowl wins was the OL and DL. If the OL stays healthy it could be dominant (aging starters or not, Buges is the master at maximizing talent). The DL should be much improved and appears to have some decent depth (watch out for Montgomery and Wilson this season). The line controls the game on both sides of the ball. For me, THAT is the difference between 10-6 and 6-10.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:21 PM   #13
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

I'm not much for the West Coast Offense except to say that it severely diluted what Art Monk accomplished in 1984. Thank God that has been rectified.

I will be looking for that run game to spite the dink 'n dunk passing game. Something along the lines of what Sean Alexander was in '03-'05 until we ended his career. I think that is what will make Zorn a good to great coach. In fact, it would be cool if he could develop an effective heavy package, using those big receivers, JC could option into when short yardage was all that was needed.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:44 PM   #14
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

It all starts up front my friends. If the offensive line stays healthy this year we will make the playoffs. If not we won't.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:53 PM   #15
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Re: The difference between 10-6 and 6-10

I know that I'm stating the obvious, but if Landry is going to be our playmaker on defense, he needs to stop getting those taunting/late hit penalties and grow up. He does have the talent to be that playmaker that can change the game.
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