Redskins Sign QB Colt Brennan

jsarno · 07-15-2008, 12:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah, they eventually won us a super bowl after spending quite a bit of time on the bench.

Well, Williams was on the bench for the 86 season, and took over the latter part of 87 and won us the super bowl.
Rypien took a little longer. Point wasn't that they would step in and immediately win us a SB, point was they came from the bench.

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It's OK to think about Colt's future, that's a good approach. But for this season, he figures to be our #3. We've got much more pressing and immediate concerns and interests - there's not much sense in talking about what he could do for us 3-5 years from now.

100% agree with you there. But we are a group of fans that talk about every little thing that happens with the Skins, especially in the offseason. We are Skins addicts.

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As for concerns about Collins, heck you could say the same about Campbell. Who knows how these guys are going to jive with Zorn? One would figure JC will be OK if given enough of a chance; he's got the arm, the legs, and some college WCO experience. But in the end, who knows?

You're right again. However, I think Campbell has the raw talent to be a better fit, while Collins does not. But like you say, in the end, who really knows?

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I just can't wait for live football action. I'm ready to see it start clicking!

Right there with you. I hope they click fast too. The change to Zorn was a dramatic change, hope they respond well.

jsarno · 07-15-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've never understood complaints about Collins' arm strength. He doesn't have a cannon but it's certainly strong enough to make all the throws he needs to make. And in a west coast offense that stresses shorter throws he should definitely be ok.

Well, while I do like his accuracy, I did mention other issues, such as his age, and the fact that he has been primarily in a saunders offense for his career, and now he's not. That's more than just an arm strength issue. You might be right about the WCO, so maybe that will solve one issue, but what about the others? To me, Collins has a lot of question marks, and if we're looking for him to step in like he did in 07, then I think we'll be disappointed.

freddyg12 · 07-15-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

There's a lot of hoopla in this thread for a guy who figures to be our #3 QB. Um, it's the #3 QB, who cares?

Campbell's our guy and Collins gives you a real good backup situation. That's all we should care about.

If we're going to talk about Colt Brennan, it should be from the perspective of one day developing him into a decent backup for when Collins is gone. Doesn't matter if you think he's overrated now, or if he's got a lot of potential now, or whatever. He's a project and someone who will never put on a helmet during gameday in 2008.

Colt is one of those few guys in the draft every year that draws debate about whether he'll make it in the pros. We even had that debate here before the draft when someone started a thread to ask if the skins should draft him.

He's definitely gotten more hype than Palmer last year, whose brother is a pro bowl qb! Colt is just one of those guys, a sort of fan favorite before he even makes the team.

On your last point, I think most here realize what his job is; 3rd string qb, if he can win it. I was happy they at least drafted a qb last year, too bad he didn't work out. I'm happy that they drafted one this year as we definitely need a young backup to groom for the future. I look forward to seeing him in preseason & really hope he can win the job easily.

sandtrapjack · 07-15-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

If professional football has showed us anything, its that the bench is EXTREMELY important. We don't have to look far to see success there. Doug Williams was a bench player, and Rypien was his bench player. Both won us a super bowl. Technically Campbell was a bench player even though the writing was on the wall there. That being said, I don't think anyone is really saying to dump campbell and give Brennan the reigns. I personally would hate to see that. But with Collins one year closer to retirement, we need a good young 3rd qb. Brennan is a PERFECT fit in my mind cause he's likely THE most underrated young QB out the there. I'm excited about our future. I hope that is the take of all the Brennan / Skins fans out there.

One more thing, I am not sold on Collins being a great backup for us. He was a great fit for Saunders offense, now that Saunders left, does Collins noodle arm have what it takes in Zorn's offense? I am not sure.

And to throw another "Bench Player" in that list of names......Tom Brady.

Mattyk72 · 07-15-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

If professional football has showed us anything, its that the bench is EXTREMELY important. We don't have to look far to see success there. Doug Williams was a bench player, and Rypien was his bench player. Both won us a super bowl. Technically Campbell was a bench player even though the writing was on the wall there. That being said, I don't think anyone is really saying to dump campbell and give Brennan the reigns. I personally would hate to see that. But with Collins one year closer to retirement, we need a good young 3rd qb. Brennan is a PERFECT fit in my mind cause he's likely THE most underrated young QB out the there. I'm excited about our future. I hope that is the take of all the Brennan / Skins fans out there.

One more thing, I am not sold on Collins being a great backup for us. He was a great fit for Saunders offense, now that Saunders left, does Collins noodle arm have what it takes in Zorn's offense? I am not sure.

It's a little odd that you seem sold on Colt, or at the least you are very optimistic about him. Yet your faith in Collins is limited. We've at least seen what Collins can do. We don't even know if CB will make the team.

jsarno · 07-15-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

It's a little odd that you seem sold on Colt, or at the least you are very optimistic about him. Yet your faith in Collins is limited. We've at least seen what Collins can do. We don't even know if CB will make the team.

age has A LOT to do with it. If it takes Collins two years to grasp the offense, he'll be 38. (he'll be 37 in November, and for him to take a full year to grasp Zorn's offense is not an unreasonable thought) I still find it a tad bit odd that everyone is so high on Collins when he played well in only exactly 3 games. I can appreciate how he ended the season for us, but I am not diluted into the thought that he will be valuable without his mentor Saunders. He has inferior skills which is why he is a journeyman. He has only started in 20 games (13 in one season with buffalo in 97) in his entire career.
So while I understand your skepticism about a rookie, I'd still take that rookie over a guy that is extremely close to retirement and hasn't done anything in his career. Brennan can learn a lot from Collins, hopefully Collins high football IQ qill rub off.

jsarno · 07-15-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

And to throw another "Bench Player" in that list of names......Tom Brady.

True...and how about hall of famer Steve Young!

ps- Brady was not considered a good prospect...not all that dissimilar to Brennan.

SmootSmack · 07-15-2008, 09:07 PM

I would think that if you can master Saunders' offense, you can at least grasp the WCO. Besides, Collins "played" in a WCO in KC before Saunders arrived

jsarno · 07-15-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I would think that if you can master Saunders' offense, you can at least grasp the WCO. Besides, Collins "played" in a WCO in KC before Saunders arrived

LOL...perfect use of " ".

I am sincerely hoping that Campbell will make us forget all about 2nd or 3rd string anyway. So this is all, hopefully, moot.

Mattyk72 · 07-16-2008, 08:27 AM

I don't want to get too far off topic here but I think Collins is one of those guys that was just kind of forgotten about over the course of his career for whatever reason. Based on what we saw last year he's certainly got what it takes to play QB in this league. Had someone in front of him gotten injured and he got a shot earlier in his career things could have wound up much different for him. At least there's not much mileage on his tires so he's a 'young' 36.

Schneed10 · 07-16-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I don't want to get too far off topic here but I think Collins is one of those guys that was just kind of forgotten about over the course of his career for whatever reason. Based on what we saw last year he's certainly got what it takes to play QB in this league. Had someone in front of him gotten injured and he got a shot earlier in his career things could have wound up much different for him. At least there's not much mileage on his tires so he's a 'young' 36.

I would agree with this. If nothing else, Collins showed last year that he has completely mastered the Saunders offense. In 10 years he never got a significant chance to play. But it stands to reason that had he gotten that shot, he would have displayed the same mastery he did when he played for us last season.

However, I do agree with Jsarno when he says that Saunders is no longer the coordinator, which does render last year's performance irrelevant to a certain degree. You can only be confident in Collins as a backup this season if you're confident that he can master the Zorn offense quickly and as effectively as he knew the Saunders offense.

Collins does not have a strong arm. He can't wait for guys to come open. He had to throw before guys made their break. The only way he could do this was by innately knowing when guys were about to break off a route. Is he going to know when Zorn's receivers are going to break their routes, or will he need to hold the ball to be sure they're breaking? And if he does hold the ball, can his arm get the ball into spots where DBs are breaking in response to the WR's move?

One thing Collins has going for him is he's a vet. He's intelligent and will not make rookie mistakes. But, if we have to use him, I'd worry about his ability to make all the throws, because I don't think he can anticipate the breaks in this offense yet. I'd worry about seeing a Mark Brunell year. Very low INTs, but rarely any risks taken because of a lack of confidence in the arm.

But whatever, because Campbell is going to play all 16 because his line's going to be healthy and will protect him well.

GoSkins! · 07-16-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I would agree with this. If nothing else, Collins showed last year that he has completely mastered the Saunders offense. In 10 years he never got a significant chance to play. But it stands to reason that had he gotten that shot, he would have displayed the same mastery he did when he played for us last season.

However, I do agree with Jsarno when he says that Saunders is no longer the coordinator, which does render last year's performance irrelevant to a certain degree. You can only be confident in Collins as a backup this season if you're confident that he can master the Zorn offense quickly and as effectively as he knew the Saunders offense.

Collins does not have a strong arm. He can't wait for guys to come open. He had to throw before guys made their break. The only way he could do this was by innately knowing when guys were about to break off a route. Is he going to know when Zorn's receivers are going to break their routes, or will he need to hold the ball to be sure they're breaking? And if he does hold the ball, can his arm get the ball into spots where DBs are breaking in response to the WR's move?

One thing Collins has going for him is he's a vet. He's intelligent and will not make rookie mistakes. But, if we have to use him, I'd worry about his ability to make all the throws, because I don't think he can anticipate the breaks in this offense yet. I'd worry about seeing a Mark Brunell year. Very low INTs, but rarely any risks taken because of a lack of confidence in the arm.

But whatever, because Campbell is going to play all 16 because his line's going to be healthy and will protect him well.

While I do agree with you about him learning a new offense, why does everyone seem to forget about the fact that he does not have to "re-learn" how to read defenses. It seems like that would be the hardest part at the NFL level. If defenses don't confuse him, he should be able to run the passing part (remember the running part is the same) pretty well. In other words running the offense from QB involves the passing game, running game, and reading defenses. Two of the three have not changed.

Mattyk72 · 07-16-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

While I do agree with you about him learning a new offense, why does everyone seem to forget about the fact that he does not have to "re-learn" how to read defenses. It seems like that would be the hardest part at the NFL level. If defenses don't confuse him, he should be able to run the passing part (remember the running part is the same) pretty well. In other words running the offense from QB involves the passing game, running game, and reading defenses. Two of the three have not changed.

Yeah good point, and he's known as a great worker so he's undoubtedly diving head first into the new playbook. Personally I'm not concerned about TC.

Gmanc711 · 07-16-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Yeah good point, and he's known as a great worker so he's undoubtedly diving head first into the new playbook. Personally I'm not concerned about TC.

Me either. I mean I absolutley love the guy for what he did last year, but I still think alot of that had soley to due with being in Saunders Offense for so long and knowing exactly where everyone would be every play. I think if he was really "that good" he would have entertained alot more offers in the offseason. I'm stoaked to have him back this season, dont get me wrong, but JC is my #1 priority of learning the offense.

GoSkins! · 07-16-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Me either. I mean I absolutley love the guy for what he did last year, but I still think alot of that had soley to due with being in Saunders Offense for so long and knowing exactly where everyone would be every play. I think if he was really "that good" he would have entertained alot more offers in the offseason. I'm stoaked to have him back this season, dont get me wrong, but JC is my #1 priority of learning the offense.

If the Anthony Mix TD would have stood in the Seattle game, and we went on to win, I think you would have seen a few more offers for TC. At his age, he needed to prove he could carry a team, by himself, in the playoffs for other teams to invest in a 36 year old starter.

07-15-2008, 09:07 PM	#38 (permalink)
SmootSmack Vice President Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 20,623	Re: Redskins Sign QB Colt Brennan I would think that if you can master Saunders' offense, you can at least grasp the WCO. Besides, Collins "played" in a WCO in KC before Saunders arrived __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

07-16-2008, 08:27 AM	#40 (permalink)
Mattyk72 Fighting my guts out Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Posts: 29,265	Re: Redskins Sign QB Colt Brennan I don't want to get too far off topic here but I think Collins is one of those guys that was just kind of forgotten about over the course of his career for whatever reason. Based on what we saw last year he's certainly got what it takes to play QB in this league. Had someone in front of him gotten injured and he got a shot earlier in his career things could have wound up much different for him. At least there's not much mileage on his tires so he's a 'young' 36. __________________ Warpath VIP \| Hail to the Hall of Famer \| Warpath Shop \| Burgundy Army

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Redskins Sign QB Colt Brennan

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