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Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Old 07-18-2008, 10:48 PM   #31
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
This is outstanding! I really feel as if we got him at a steal of a price too. I was hoping to get him for more years, but once he breaks out he'll expect to renegotiate anyway. What a steal!
The price was pretty much set on him as soon as we selected him 34th overall. The draft slot determines the contract value, there's only a few thousand dollars worth of wiggle room.

So we got the standard value for a 2nd round pick.

If you're happy with the low investment, it's mainly because you like the price on 2nd round pick talent. Not because the Skins did anything special to strike a favorable deal. We got the value for the money on draft day, not today.

Lots of teams get great value from their 2nd-4th rounders. Finally we have the potential to be one of them, after picking 5 guys in those rounds this year.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:52 PM   #32
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
The price was pretty much set on him as soon as we selected him 34th overall. The draft slot determines the contract value, there's only a few thousand dollars worth of wiggle room.

So we got the standard value for a 2nd round pick.

If you're happy with the low investment, it's mainly because you like the price on 2nd round pick talent. Not because the Skins did anything special to strike a favorable deal. We got the value for the money on draft day, not today.

Lots of teams get great value from their 2nd-4th rounders. Finally we have the potential to be one of them, after picking 5 guys in those rounds this year.
I thought they could negotiate any contract they wished? For instance if he felt he was a first round talent, and wanted 5 years 15 mil or something like that? Is there on a cap on it on something?
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:58 PM   #33
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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I thought they could negotiate any contract they wished? For instance if he felt he was a first round talent, and wanted 5 years 15 mil or something like that? Is there on a cap on it on something?
Yeah, except then the team says:

"No."

And that's pretty much the end of the 5 years 15 mil tomfoolery. But to answer your question, there's technically no cap.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:02 PM   #34
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
I thought they could negotiate any contract they wished? For instance if he felt he was a first round talent, and wanted 5 years 15 mil or something like that? Is there on a cap on it on something?
Yeah there kind of is a cap on it, it's called the rookie pool. The NFL lays out a "cap within the cap." In other words, you have your normal salary cap for your entire team which all your players have to fit under, and your rookies have to all fit under a certain smaller number within the larger cap.

This year the Skins had a rookie pool limit of $4.5 million. Meaning the cap hits in 2008 for their 10 rookies combined had to be under $4.5 million.

So that's one force in place preventing the numbers from getting too high. But further, market forces dictate that draft picks outside of the first round pretty much get a standard contract according to draft order. Typically, teams look at what the same pick from last year's draft got, and apply an inflation factor. So the Skins probably looked back at the 34th pick of 2007, found the numbers from his deal, and started there.

As more and more draft picks signed around Thomas, it gave the 'Skins and Thomas even narrower parameters. He theoretically should get more than the 35th pick, but less than the 33rd.

In the end, Thomas is free to negotiate for as much money as he wants. But he certainly can't ask for more than the rookie pool limit would allow, because the 'Skins literally can't give that to him. And he's got little standing to ask for something out of line with last year's 34th pick, or more than this year's 33rd pick got. So his choice is take that standard deal, or hold out forever.

When you're coming into a team with Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El already here, plus another talented rookie signed, you better just take whatever deal and get your ass into camp. If you want to make an impact to one day make the big bucks, you're going to need all the practice you can get.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:14 PM   #35
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Yeah there kind of is a cap on it, it's called the rookie pool. The NFL lays out a "cap within the cap." In other words, you have your normal salary cap for your entire team which all your players have to fit under, and your rookies have to all fit under a certain smaller number within the larger cap.

This year the Skins had a rookie pool limit of $4.5 million. Meaning the cap hits in 2008 for their 10 rookies combined had to be under $4.5 million.

So that's one force in place preventing the numbers from getting too high. But further, market forces dictate that draft picks outside of the first round pretty much get a standard contract according to draft order. Typically, teams look at what the same pick from last year's draft got, and apply an inflation factor. So the Skins probably looked back at the 34th pick of 2007, found the numbers from his deal, and started there.

As more and more draft picks signed around Thomas, it gave the 'Skins and Thomas even narrower parameters. He theoretically should get more than the 35th pick, but less than the 33rd.

In the end, Thomas is free to negotiate for as much money as he wants. But he certainly can't ask for more than the rookie pool limit would allow, because the 'Skins literally can't give that to him. And he's got little standing to ask for something out of line with last year's 34th pick, or more than this year's 33rd pick got. So his choice is take that standard deal, or hold out forever.
I had no idea...thanks for explaining it.
So does this mean the NFL chooses the rookie pool limit for EACH team?

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When you're coming into a team with Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El already here, plus another talented rookie signed, you better just take whatever deal and get your ass into camp. If you want to make an impact to one day make the big bucks, you're going to need all the practice you can get.
Sorry, I agree, but had to make this comment...
if I had the 4.83 mil that he is getting over 4 years, I'd never have to work again. I'd call that big bucks!

(note- I understand your point, just being sarcastic.)
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:45 PM   #36
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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I had no idea...thanks for explaining it.
So does this mean the NFL chooses the rookie pool limit for EACH team?
Yep. I think they have a formula for it though based on the factors of slots at which you selected at, and market inflation.
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Old 07-19-2008, 07:01 AM   #37
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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I had no idea...thanks for explaining it.
So does this mean the NFL chooses the rookie pool limit for EACH team?
Yes they do. It varies for each team. The more picks you made in the draft, and the higher those picks are, the higher your rookie pool allotment.

Here's an article on ESPN summarizing how it works, and a table showing the rookie pool allotments by team in 2008:

ESPN - Chiefs get largest rookie pool to pay draft picks - NFL
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:44 AM   #38
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

I think the rookie wideouts have a better chance of having an impact than Davis initially, if only because

1) 2nd TEs are normally the blocking TE
2) We'll run more 3 and 4 WR sets than 2 TE sets (just based on the breakdown of what the Seahawks ran against us in the playoffs last year)
3) Todd Yoder is still on the team

The Seahawks 2nd TE caught 14 passes. The Broncos 2nd TE (Daniel Graham) caught 24 passes. The Packers 2nd TE 18. The Colts 2nd TE caught 31. Point being, 2nd TEs do have an impact, but considering we have a young quarterback he is probably going to be more likely at checking down to the RB and FB than scanning the field and going to his 5th option which would be the 2nd TE.
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:59 AM   #39
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Originally Posted by memphisskin View Post
I think the rookie wideouts have a better chance of having an impact than Davis initially, if only because

1) 2nd TEs are normally the blocking TE
2) We'll run more 3 and 4 WR sets than 2 TE sets (just based on the breakdown of what the Seahawks ran against us in the playoffs last year)
3) Todd Yoder is still on the team

The Seahawks 2nd TE caught 14 passes. The Broncos 2nd TE (Daniel Graham) caught 24 passes. The Packers 2nd TE 18. The Colts 2nd TE caught 31. Point being, 2nd TEs do have an impact, but considering we have a young quarterback he is probably going to be more likely at checking down to the RB and FB than scanning the field and going to his 5th option which would be the 2nd TE.
Good points, I'd be surprised if Davis catches more than 20-25 passes.
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:04 AM   #40
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Originally Posted by memphisskin View Post
I think the rookie wideouts have a better chance of having an impact than Davis initially, if only because

1) 2nd TEs are normally the blocking TE
2) We'll run more 3 and 4 WR sets than 2 TE sets (just based on the breakdown of what the Seahawks ran against us in the playoffs last year)
3) Todd Yoder is still on the team

The Seahawks 2nd TE caught 14 passes. The Broncos 2nd TE (Daniel Graham) caught 24 passes. The Packers 2nd TE 18. The Colts 2nd TE caught 31. Point being, 2nd TEs do have an impact, but considering we have a young quarterback he is probably going to be more likely at checking down to the RB and FB than scanning the field and going to his 5th option which would be the 2nd TE.
Yeah, good post. On top of all this, Zorn is said to be seeking to find ways to get Portis more involved in the passing game as a receiver. More plays will be designed to go to him.
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:19 AM   #41
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Yeah, good post. On top of all this, Zorn is said to be seeking to find ways to get Portis more involved in the passing game as a receiver. More plays will be designed to go to him.
I would love to see more of Portis in space and on screens where his speed and elusiveness should equal more tds. The good thing about drafting two wideouts is that we should see a lot of them in the HOF game, which is only 2 weeks away! I'm ready for some football!
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:27 AM   #42
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

I'm ready for some football to, HAIL TO THE SKINS
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:36 AM   #43
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Yes they do. It varies for each team. The more picks you made in the draft, and the higher those picks are, the higher your rookie pool allotment.

Here's an article on ESPN summarizing how it works, and a table showing the rookie pool allotments by team in 2008:

ESPN - Chiefs get largest rookie pool to pay draft picks - NFL
great link...thanks.

Although, I guess I don't understand their formula...like why the Jets got about 400k more money to sign 4 fewer players. Maybe I'm not supposed to understand.
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:06 AM   #44
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Re: Devin Thomas signs, 1 to go

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great link...thanks.

Although, I guess I don't understand their formula...like why the Jets got about 400k more money to sign 4 fewer players. Maybe I'm not supposed to understand.
Probably because the Jets had two first round draft choices, Dustin Keller at #30 and Vernon Gholston at #6.
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