Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

GTripp0012 · 08-19-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Here's some good stats regarding defensive lines:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

GTripp will be able to explain these stats better than me ... I know he frequents this site.

Anyways, the data shows our defensive line was ranked 17th last year overall. That puts us above NE, SD, GB, JAX, and DEN, as well as others.

Interestingly enough, those stats rank us #1 last year in the 10+ category -- a measure of LB performance.

ALY is a great tool to see how the defensive line (and linebackers) are doing independent of big plays downfield, and adjusted for the quality of competition they face. You can look at it, and realize the total product of our DL last year was remarkably average against the run, and below average in pressuring the QB.

ALY is very limited in it's ability to dictate where the weaknesses on the DL are.

Other data I've seen suggests that LE was our biggest weakness against the run last year (the Daniels/Evans/M. Washington/Wilson combination), while the pass rush from Daniels was poor both from the LE position, and on the interior when he replaced Monty in pass rushing downs. Griffin was quietly very good last year, but it was pretty much him, Carter, and Monty getting all the production last year, and Monty didn't play enough to offset the lack of production from the rest of the guys. But again, that's not ALY speaking, that's the consensus opinion I've gathered from a bunch of other sources.

12thMan · 08-19-2008, 09:42 PM

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;465623]Griffin is getting ancient. quote]

I'm sure by now you think you're being picked on. I just wanted to point out that Griff is only 31 years old. I say only because that's far from ancient.

dmvskinzfan08 · 08-19-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I'm not trying to speak for SS -- he's pretty good at that himself. However, you started this thread, and nothing has come out of it. No good discussion -- nothing but off-topic BS.

There's a reason for that: you didn't make your case very clearly, and so there were no specific talking points. You just said that the d-line is underachieving, with no arguments to back it up.

SS said, "Daniels, Griffin, Boschetti, Evans, Golston, Wilson, Alexander, and Montgomery need to go?"

You said, "NO I am talking about older playrs that haven't produced and other players that haven't produced."

So, if not any of the players SS mentioned, then who needs to go? I'm not sure there is anyone left.

I'm not trying to gang-up on you. In all actuality, some guys on the d-line will be cut, and this could be a good discussion about who should go.

So, who should go?

My fault for not being direct in my thread post. Thanks you for responding without throwing effin this and effin that in there and acting like I insulted your family. Hopefully I cleared things up. I also changed the thread so people can talk about who they think is not producing and hwo needs to be cut. Hopefully that's better. Thanks

dmvskinzfan08 · 08-19-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

ALY is a great tool to see how the defensive line (and linebackers) are doing independent of big plays downfield, and adjusted for the quality of competition they face. You can look at it, and realize the total product of our DL last year was remarkably average against the run, and below average in pressuring the QB.

ALY is very limited in it's ability to dictate where the weaknesses on the DL are.

Other data I've seen suggests that LE was our biggest weakness against the run last year (the Daniels/Evans/M. Washington/Wilson combination), while the pass rush from Daniels was poor both from the LE position, and on the interior when he replaced Monty in pass rushing downs. Griffin was quietly very good last year, but it was pretty much him, Carter, and Monty getting all the production last year, and Monty didn't play enough to offset the lack of production from the rest of the guys. But again, that's not ALY speaking, that's the consensus opinion I've gathered from a bunch of other sources.

[QUOTE=12thMan;465625]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Griffin is getting ancient. quote]

I'm sure by now you think you're being picked on. I just wanted to point out that Griff is only 31 years old. I say only because that's far from ancient.

Understandable. He looks old though..lol..Seriously though. That is not that young..and I know people gave Jason Taylor grief because he is about to be 34 but he produces.

As far as ALY and the "other data" goes..those are the same points I made. So that backs up my argument thanks. I am not trying to come down on the D-Line. But they got to put some fear in QBs. If not they will pick us apart.

GTripp0012 · 08-19-2008, 09:51 PM

The other big, big issue in the defensive front seven was that London Fletcher had to make a lot of plays last year, as he usually does on his teams. But the problem is this: when the plays are getting to Fletcher (who often lines up 7-8 yards behind the LOS), more likely than not the offense has accomplished it's goal on the play.

I'm certain that the addition of Jason Taylor will fix whatever was ailing the pass rush. But it won't fix the inability of the LB's to create big plays, which is generally a main key to a Blache-led defense. The linebackers have to do better than they did last year, and hopefully, for the first time in his career, London Fletcher can get some help in play making from the guys on either side of him, and won't have such an obscene percentage of the Redskins' tackles this year.

GhettoDogAllStars · 08-19-2008, 09:52 PM

It's tough to make a case for Rob Jackson, because he won't start unless there's an injury. However, there might be other guys who are more versatile (like Alexander), so they have a better chance of making the team even though they also won't start unless there's an injury.

Remember, Daniels can play inside as well as outside. So, even though he's old, he's more valuable than a younger guy that is better at DE, but can't play inside. However, Daniels is on IR, so he's out of the equation. I just wanted to give an example.

I'm not sure of the versatility of the other guys on the line, except for Alexander. However, it's possible some of them are more versatile than others. Chances are the versatile guys are going to be the vets -- not the young guys.

So, here's are our d-line depth chart as it stands now:

Taylor / Evans / Jackson
Griffin / Alexander / Boschetti
Montgomery / Golston / Askew
Carter / Wilson / James

I don't see us carrying more than 9 d-linemen, so 3 have to go. None of the starters are going anywhere. I'd be surprised if James was cut before they saw him in action. That leaves 7 guys, all of whom are young (except Evans).

I'd be happy cutting Askew and Boschetti, and moving Evans to LB or PS.

P.S.: All of our current d-linemen are around the mid-twenties, except for Taylor, Carter, Griffin, and Evans.

GhettoDogAllStars · 08-19-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesscl34

dmvskinsfan08 - you have a thick skin. I'm proud of you!

It's only the pre-season. Let's wait until the regular season starts before we make any bold statements.

Also, he hasn't had any run-ins with Schneed yet. hehe

GTripp0012 · 08-19-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

P.S.: All of our current d-linemen are around the mid-twenties, except for Taylor, Carter, Griffin, and Evans.

Which of course, is the big issue, long term.

The guys that we are counting on to produce are the only ones at the back end of, or past their primes.

The goal should not be to throw a fit about what isn't happening now, it's to make sure that when one or more of these guys start to seriously decline, that we have a contingency plan ready.

If, for some reason, there's a decline this year, our current plan is "um, let's see what Golston can do, and uh, maybe Erasmus James will be healthy...and dominant". Basically, we're just hoping to squeeze another good year or two out of these three guys while we wait for Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly to get on the field and score enough points to make having a crappy DL irrelevant.

Or at least I think that's the plan. Anyway, thats another discussion.

dmvskinzfan08 · 08-19-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesscl34

dmvskinsfan08 - you have a thick skin. I'm proud of you!

Thanks man. I love my team. I just want to see them beat the crap out of some QBs. I would love to see Tony Romo banged up and slammed on his head. Would love to see Eli getting driven into the ground and caouging up the ball. Would love to see McNabb trying to run for a first down and get wiped out and limping to the sidelines..That's all I ask..lol. Sorry for being so critical of the D-Line. But I grew up watching Dexter Manely & Charles Mann. I miss that..sorry

twinskinsfan · 08-19-2008, 10:05 PM

It's only preseason man, relax

dmvskinzfan08 · 08-19-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinskinsfan

It's only preseason man, relax

Man..Im cool..cooler than a polar bears toe nails. Chillin like a villian on a snow cap...lol

I am going to leave it at this..I will give the youngins the benefit of the doubt. But these vets..need to step their game up..

SmootSmack · 08-19-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I'm not trying to speak for SS -- he's pretty good at that himself. However, you started this thread, and nothing has come out of it. No good discussion -- nothing but off-topic BS.

There's a reason for that: you didn't make your case very clearly, and so there were no specific talking points. You just said that the d-line is underachieving, with no arguments to back it up.

SS said, "Daniels, Griffin, Boschetti, Evans, Golston, Wilson, Alexander, and Montgomery need to go?"

You said, "NO I am talking about older playrs that haven't produced and other players that haven't produced."

So, if not any of the players SS mentioned, then who needs to go? I'm not sure there is anyone left.

I'm not trying to gang-up on you. In all actuality, some guys on the d-line will be cut, and this could be a good discussion about who should go.

So, who should go?

Thanks. I mean he was asked multiple times, not just by me, to state who he was talking about. Instead, he wanted to make it some sort of guessing game. Instead of saying "not these guys" he could of just said "these guys" but he didn't. After the first few times of niceties, the only way it seemed possible to get through was to be "a little less nice"

dmvskinzfan08 · 08-19-2008, 10:34 PM

Thanks Ghetto..for the niceties (not using effin and throwing a fit and asking what I meant calmly)!! Sorry but I wasn't on here to see your replies and I probably missed them SmootSmack. Its called patience young grasshopper. Calm down dude..WooooSaaaaaa.. Breathe in...Breathe out...

Oh and for those who have to name call. Dont ban me when I fire back!!

If you are strong enough to dish it you are strong enough to take it..despite your relegated authority..

They will remain nameless..

Because if you agree with my opinion or not..Just say you dont agree. But if not I hope you are a coach that is a troll or someone with expertise if not your thoughts are opinions too. And like an ol man told me opinions are like a-holes..everyone has one..

So unless you are a coach a gm of a NFL team or you have experience beyond this board respect others opinions and disagree without insulting them. Because soon as they insult you back. You have an issue..This is a forum. Not the Senate or Congress or some imperial soap box of knowledge for illuminated dignitaries. This is football talk. Stop spitting in your fellow Redskins fans face. Save it for the cowgirls or some hated opponent. Please forgive me..For I have sinned

As for the posting of this thread..time will tell..I have expressed my thoughts in better detail on the latter replies..enough said

Thanks

The Goat · 08-19-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The other big, big issue in the defensive front seven was that London Fletcher had to make a lot of plays last year, as he usually does on his teams. But the problem is this: when the plays are getting to Fletcher (who often lines up 7-8 yards behind the LOS), more likely than not the offense has accomplished it's goal on the play.

I'm certain that the addition of Jason Taylor will fix whatever was ailing the pass rush. But it won't fix the inability of the LB's to create big plays, which is generally a main key to a Blache-led defense. The linebackers have to do better than they did last year, and hopefully, for the first time in his career, London Fletcher can get some help in play making from the guys on either side of him, and won't have such an obscene percentage of the Redskins' tackles this year.

I think the LB corp, while thinner than any of us probably wish, looks to be more dominant this year on it's own accord. You're points are well taken about the lack of big plays last season and that's what I'm really getting at. Marcus is totally healthy this year and way up on himself (in a good way), which is so important for a guy who plays w/ tons of emotion. Fletcher is just steady all around. Rocky will be very "smart" this season and surprise us. This defense is going to fly. My only concern is Landry's health in the short-run. His absence in the season opener will severely limit what Blache can do.

Lady Brave · 08-19-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Thanks Ghetto..for the niceties (not using effin and throwing a fit and asking what I meant calmly)!! Sorry but I wasn't on here to see your replies and I probably missed them SmootSmack. Its called patience young grasshopper. Calm down dude..WooooSaaaaaa.. Breathe in...Breathe out...

Oh and for those who have to name call. Dont ban me when I fire back!!

If you are strong enough to dish it you are strong enough to take it..despite your relegated authority..

They will remain nameless..

Because if you agree with my opinion or not..Just say you dont agree. But if not I hope you are a coach that is a troll or someone with expertise if not your thoughts are opinions too. And like an ol man told me opinions are like a-holes..everyone has one..

So unless you are a coach a gm of a NFL team or you have experience beyond this board respect others opinions and disagree without insulting them. Because soon as they insult you back. You have an issue..This is a forum. Not the Senate or Congress or some imperial soap box of knowledge for illuminated dignitaries. This is football talk. Stop spitting in your fellow Redskins fans face. Save it for the cowgirls or some hated opponent. Please forgive me..For I have sinned

As for the posting of this thread..time will tell..I have expressed my thoughts in better detail on the latter replies..enough said

Thanks

Please stop the whining.

However, I always enjoy these little diatribes, especially from the new people who think they've got everything figured out. It's amusing in a way. Then again, I'm usually bored and therefore, easily amused.

08-19-2008, 09:42 PM	#62
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,363	Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes.. [quote=dmvskinzfan08;465623]Griffin is getting ancient. quote] I'm sure by now you think you're being picked on. I just wanted to point out that Griff is only 31 years old. I say only because that's far from ancient.

08-19-2008, 09:51 PM	#65
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,143	Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes.. The other big, big issue in the defensive front seven was that London Fletcher had to make a lot of plays last year, as he usually does on his teams. But the problem is this: when the plays are getting to Fletcher (who often lines up 7-8 yards behind the LOS), more likely than not the offense has accomplished it's goal on the play. I'm certain that the addition of Jason Taylor will fix whatever was ailing the pass rush. But it won't fix the inability of the LB's to create big plays, which is generally a main key to a Blache-led defense. The linebackers have to do better than they did last year, and hopefully, for the first time in his career, London Fletcher can get some help in play making from the guys on either side of him, and won't have such an obscene percentage of the Redskins' tackles this year. __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

08-19-2008, 09:52 PM	#66
GhettoDogAllStars Playmaker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Age: 31 Posts: 2,759	Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes.. It's tough to make a case for Rob Jackson, because he won't start unless there's an injury. However, there might be other guys who are more versatile (like Alexander), so they have a better chance of making the team even though they also won't start unless there's an injury. Remember, Daniels can play inside as well as outside. So, even though he's old, he's more valuable than a younger guy that is better at DE, but can't play inside. However, Daniels is on IR, so he's out of the equation. I just wanted to give an example. I'm not sure of the versatility of the other guys on the line, except for Alexander. However, it's possible some of them are more versatile than others. Chances are the versatile guys are going to be the vets -- not the young guys. So, here's are our d-line depth chart as it stands now: Taylor / Evans / Jackson Griffin / Alexander / Boschetti Montgomery / Golston / Askew Carter / Wilson / James I don't see us carrying more than 9 d-linemen, so 3 have to go. None of the starters are going anywhere. I'd be surprised if James was cut before they saw him in action. That leaves 7 guys, all of whom are young (except Evans). I'd be happy cutting Askew and Boschetti, and moving Evans to LB or PS. P.S.: All of our current d-linemen are around the mid-twenties, except for Taylor, Carter, Griffin, and Evans. __________________ To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.

08-19-2008, 10:05 PM	#70
twinskinsfan Special Teams Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 141	Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes.. It's only preseason man, relax

08-19-2008, 10:34 PM	#73
dmvskinzfan08 Impact Rookie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 968	Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes.. Thanks Ghetto..for the niceties (not using effin and throwing a fit and asking what I meant calmly)!! Sorry but I wasn't on here to see your replies and I probably missed them SmootSmack. Its called patience young grasshopper. Calm down dude..WooooSaaaaaa.. Breathe in...Breathe out... Oh and for those who have to name call. Dont ban me when I fire back!! If you are strong enough to dish it you are strong enough to take it..despite your relegated authority.. They will remain nameless.. Because if you agree with my opinion or not..Just say you dont agree. But if not I hope you are a coach that is a troll or someone with expertise if not your thoughts are opinions too. And like an ol man told me opinions are like a-holes..everyone has one.. So unless you are a coach a gm of a NFL team or you have experience beyond this board respect others opinions and disagree without insulting them. Because soon as they insult you back. You have an issue..This is a forum. Not the Senate or Congress or some imperial soap box of knowledge for illuminated dignitaries. This is football talk. Stop spitting in your fellow Redskins fans face. Save it for the cowgirls or some hated opponent. Please forgive me..For I have sinned As for the posting of this thread..time will tell..I have expressed my thoughts in better detail on the latter replies..enough said Thanks __________________ HTTR 09 - RIP#21 HATERS << Misery Loves Company Last edited by dmvskinzfan08; 08-19-2008 at 10:57 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Redskins Locker Room