Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Redskins Locker Room


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-19-2008, 09:40 PM   #61
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 26
Posts: 15,994
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
Here's some good stats regarding defensive lines:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

GTripp will be able to explain these stats better than me ... I know he frequents this site.

Anyways, the data shows our defensive line was ranked 17th last year overall. That puts us above NE, SD, GB, JAX, and DEN, as well as others.

Interestingly enough, those stats rank us #1 last year in the 10+ category -- a measure of LB performance.
ALY is a great tool to see how the defensive line (and linebackers) are doing independent of big plays downfield, and adjusted for the quality of competition they face. You can look at it, and realize the total product of our DL last year was remarkably average against the run, and below average in pressuring the QB.

ALY is very limited in it's ability to dictate where the weaknesses on the DL are.

Other data I've seen suggests that LE was our biggest weakness against the run last year (the Daniels/Evans/M. Washington/Wilson combination), while the pass rush from Daniels was poor both from the LE position, and on the interior when he replaced Monty in pass rushing downs. Griffin was quietly very good last year, but it was pretty much him, Carter, and Monty getting all the production last year, and Monty didn't play enough to offset the lack of production from the rest of the guys. But again, that's not ALY speaking, that's the consensus opinion I've gathered from a bunch of other sources.
__________________
according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
GTripp0012 is offline  

Advertisements
Old 08-19-2008, 09:42 PM   #62
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,456
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;465623]Griffin is getting ancient. quote]

I'm sure by now you think you're being picked on. I just wanted to point out that Griff is only 31 years old. I say only because that's far from ancient.
12thMan is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 09:43 PM   #63
Impact Rookie
 
dmvskinzfan08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 968
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
I'm not trying to speak for SS -- he's pretty good at that himself. However, you started this thread, and nothing has come out of it. No good discussion -- nothing but off-topic BS.

There's a reason for that: you didn't make your case very clearly, and so there were no specific talking points. You just said that the d-line is underachieving, with no arguments to back it up.

SS said, "Daniels, Griffin, Boschetti, Evans, Golston, Wilson, Alexander, and Montgomery need to go?"

You said, "NO I am talking about older playrs that haven't produced and other players that haven't produced."

So, if not any of the players SS mentioned, then who needs to go? I'm not sure there is anyone left.

I'm not trying to gang-up on you. In all actuality, some guys on the d-line will be cut, and this could be a good discussion about who should go.

So, who should go?
My fault for not being direct in my thread post. Thanks you for responding without throwing effin this and effin that in there and acting like I insulted your family. Hopefully I cleared things up. I also changed the thread so people can talk about who they think is not producing and hwo needs to be cut. Hopefully that's better. Thanks
dmvskinzfan08 is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 09:49 PM   #64
Impact Rookie
 
dmvskinzfan08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 968
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
ALY is a great tool to see how the defensive line (and linebackers) are doing independent of big plays downfield, and adjusted for the quality of competition they face. You can look at it, and realize the total product of our DL last year was remarkably average against the run, and below average in pressuring the QB.

ALY is very limited in it's ability to dictate where the weaknesses on the DL are.

Other data I've seen suggests that LE was our biggest weakness against the run last year (the Daniels/Evans/M. Washington/Wilson combination), while the pass rush from Daniels was poor both from the LE position, and on the interior when he replaced Monty in pass rushing downs. Griffin was quietly very good last year, but it was pretty much him, Carter, and Monty getting all the production last year, and Monty didn't play enough to offset the lack of production from the rest of the guys. But again, that's not ALY speaking, that's the consensus opinion I've gathered from a bunch of other sources.

[QUOTE=12thMan;465625]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08 View Post
Griffin is getting ancient. quote]

I'm sure by now you think you're being picked on. I just wanted to point out that Griff is only 31 years old. I say only because that's far from ancient.
Understandable. He looks old though..lol..Seriously though. That is not that young..and I know people gave Jason Taylor grief because he is about to be 34 but he produces.

As far as ALY and the "other data" goes..those are the same points I made. So that backs up my argument thanks. I am not trying to come down on the D-Line. But they got to put some fear in QBs. If not they will pick us apart.
dmvskinzfan08 is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 09:51 PM   #65
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 26
Posts: 15,994
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

The other big, big issue in the defensive front seven was that London Fletcher had to make a lot of plays last year, as he usually does on his teams. But the problem is this: when the plays are getting to Fletcher (who often lines up 7-8 yards behind the LOS), more likely than not the offense has accomplished it's goal on the play.

I'm certain that the addition of Jason Taylor will fix whatever was ailing the pass rush. But it won't fix the inability of the LB's to create big plays, which is generally a main key to a Blache-led defense. The linebackers have to do better than they did last year, and hopefully, for the first time in his career, London Fletcher can get some help in play making from the guys on either side of him, and won't have such an obscene percentage of the Redskins' tackles this year.
__________________
according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
GTripp0012 is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 09:52 PM   #66
Playmaker
 
GhettoDogAllStars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Age: 32
Posts: 2,761
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

It's tough to make a case for Rob Jackson, because he won't start unless there's an injury. However, there might be other guys who are more versatile (like Alexander), so they have a better chance of making the team even though they also won't start unless there's an injury.

Remember, Daniels can play inside as well as outside. So, even though he's old, he's more valuable than a younger guy that is better at DE, but can't play inside. However, Daniels is on IR, so he's out of the equation. I just wanted to give an example.

I'm not sure of the versatility of the other guys on the line, except for Alexander. However, it's possible some of them are more versatile than others. Chances are the versatile guys are going to be the vets -- not the young guys.

So, here's are our d-line depth chart as it stands now:

Taylor / Evans / Jackson
Griffin / Alexander / Boschetti
Montgomery / Golston / Askew
Carter / Wilson / James

I don't see us carrying more than 9 d-linemen, so 3 have to go. None of the starters are going anywhere. I'd be surprised if James was cut before they saw him in action. That leaves 7 guys, all of whom are young (except Evans).

I'd be happy cutting Askew and Boschetti, and moving Evans to LB or PS.

P.S.: All of our current d-linemen are around the mid-twenties, except for Taylor, Carter, Griffin, and Evans.
__________________
To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.
GhettoDogAllStars is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 09:57 PM   #67
Playmaker
 
GhettoDogAllStars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Age: 32
Posts: 2,761
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by hesscl34 View Post
dmvskinsfan08 - you have a thick skin. I'm proud of you!
It's only the pre-season. Let's wait until the regular season starts before we make any bold statements.

Also, he hasn't had any run-ins with Schneed yet. hehe
__________________
To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.
GhettoDogAllStars is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 10:01 PM   #68
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 26
Posts: 15,994
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
P.S.: All of our current d-linemen are around the mid-twenties, except for Taylor, Carter, Griffin, and Evans.
Which of course, is the big issue, long term.

The guys that we are counting on to produce are the only ones at the back end of, or past their primes.

The goal should not be to throw a fit about what isn't happening now, it's to make sure that when one or more of these guys start to seriously decline, that we have a contingency plan ready.

If, for some reason, there's a decline this year, our current plan is "um, let's see what Golston can do, and uh, maybe Erasmus James will be healthy...and dominant". Basically, we're just hoping to squeeze another good year or two out of these three guys while we wait for Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly to get on the field and score enough points to make having a crappy DL irrelevant.

Or at least I think that's the plan. Anyway, thats another discussion.
__________________
according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
GTripp0012 is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 10:04 PM   #69
Impact Rookie
 
dmvskinzfan08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 968
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by hesscl34 View Post
dmvskinsfan08 - you have a thick skin. I'm proud of you!
Thanks man. I love my team. I just want to see them beat the crap out of some QBs. I would love to see Tony Romo banged up and slammed on his head. Would love to see Eli getting driven into the ground and caouging up the ball. Would love to see McNabb trying to run for a first down and get wiped out and limping to the sidelines..That's all I ask..lol. Sorry for being so critical of the D-Line. But I grew up watching Dexter Manely & Charles Mann. I miss that..sorry
dmvskinzfan08 is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 10:05 PM   #70
Special Teams
 
twinskinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 141
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

It's only preseason man, relax
twinskinsfan is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 10:11 PM   #71
Impact Rookie
 
dmvskinzfan08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 968
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinskinsfan View Post
It's only preseason man, relax
Man..Im cool..cooler than a polar bears toe nails. Chillin like a villian on a snow cap...lol

I am going to leave it at this..I will give the youngins the benefit of the doubt. But these vets..need to step their game up..
__________________
HTTR 09 - RIP#21
HATERS << Misery Loves Company
dmvskinzfan08 is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 10:19 PM   #72
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,627
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
I'm not trying to speak for SS -- he's pretty good at that himself. However, you started this thread, and nothing has come out of it. No good discussion -- nothing but off-topic BS.

There's a reason for that: you didn't make your case very clearly, and so there were no specific talking points. You just said that the d-line is underachieving, with no arguments to back it up.

SS said, "Daniels, Griffin, Boschetti, Evans, Golston, Wilson, Alexander, and Montgomery need to go?"

You said, "NO I am talking about older playrs that haven't produced and other players that haven't produced."

So, if not any of the players SS mentioned, then who needs to go? I'm not sure there is anyone left.

I'm not trying to gang-up on you. In all actuality, some guys on the d-line will be cut, and this could be a good discussion about who should go.

So, who should go?
Thanks. I mean he was asked multiple times, not just by me, to state who he was talking about. Instead, he wanted to make it some sort of guessing game. Instead of saying "not these guys" he could of just said "these guys" but he didn't. After the first few times of niceties, the only way it seemed possible to get through was to be "a little less nice"
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 10:34 PM   #73
Impact Rookie
 
dmvskinzfan08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 968
Thumbs up Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Thanks Ghetto..for the niceties (not using effin and throwing a fit and asking what I meant calmly)!! Sorry but I wasn't on here to see your replies and I probably missed them SmootSmack. Its called patience young grasshopper. Calm down dude..WooooSaaaaaa.. Breathe in...Breathe out...

Oh and for those who have to name call. Dont ban me when I fire back!!

If you are strong enough to dish it you are strong enough to take it..despite your relegated authority..

They will remain nameless..

Because if you agree with my opinion or not..Just say you dont agree. But if not I hope you are a coach that is a troll or someone with expertise if not your thoughts are opinions too. And like an ol man told me opinions are like a-holes..everyone has one..

So unless you are a coach a gm of a NFL team or you have experience beyond this board respect others opinions and disagree without insulting them. Because soon as they insult you back. You have an issue..This is a forum. Not the Senate or Congress or some imperial soap box of knowledge for illuminated dignitaries. This is football talk. Stop spitting in your fellow Redskins fans face. Save it for the cowgirls or some hated opponent. Please forgive me..For I have sinned

As for the posting of this thread..time will tell..I have expressed my thoughts in better detail on the latter replies..enough said

Thanks
__________________
HTTR 09 - RIP#21
HATERS << Misery Loves Company

Last edited by dmvskinzfan08; 08-19-2008 at 10:57 PM.
dmvskinzfan08 is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 11:34 PM   #74
Registered User
 
The Goat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,662
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
The other big, big issue in the defensive front seven was that London Fletcher had to make a lot of plays last year, as he usually does on his teams. But the problem is this: when the plays are getting to Fletcher (who often lines up 7-8 yards behind the LOS), more likely than not the offense has accomplished it's goal on the play.

I'm certain that the addition of Jason Taylor will fix whatever was ailing the pass rush. But it won't fix the inability of the LB's to create big plays, which is generally a main key to a Blache-led defense. The linebackers have to do better than they did last year, and hopefully, for the first time in his career, London Fletcher can get some help in play making from the guys on either side of him, and won't have such an obscene percentage of the Redskins' tackles this year.
I think the LB corp, while thinner than any of us probably wish, looks to be more dominant this year on it's own accord. You're points are well taken about the lack of big plays last season and that's what I'm really getting at. Marcus is totally healthy this year and way up on himself (in a good way), which is so important for a guy who plays w/ tons of emotion. Fletcher is just steady all around. Rocky will be very "smart" this season and surprise us. This defense is going to fly. My only concern is Landry's health in the short-run. His absence in the season opener will severely limit what Blache can do.
The Goat is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 11:46 PM   #75
The Starter
 
Lady Brave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Trinity, NC
Age: 42
Posts: 1,444
Re: Defensive line..Stop the man crushes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08 View Post
Thanks Ghetto..for the niceties (not using effin and throwing a fit and asking what I meant calmly)!! Sorry but I wasn't on here to see your replies and I probably missed them SmootSmack. Its called patience young grasshopper. Calm down dude..WooooSaaaaaa.. Breathe in...Breathe out...

Oh and for those who have to name call. Dont ban me when I fire back!!

If you are strong enough to dish it you are strong enough to take it..despite your relegated authority..

They will remain nameless..

Because if you agree with my opinion or not..Just say you dont agree. But if not I hope you are a coach that is a troll or someone with expertise if not your thoughts are opinions too. And like an ol man told me opinions are like a-holes..everyone has one..

So unless you are a coach a gm of a NFL team or you have experience beyond this board respect others opinions and disagree without insulting them. Because soon as they insult you back. You have an issue..This is a forum. Not the Senate or Congress or some imperial soap box of knowledge for illuminated dignitaries. This is football talk. Stop spitting in your fellow Redskins fans face. Save it for the cowgirls or some hated opponent. Please forgive me..For I have sinned

As for the posting of this thread..time will tell..I have expressed my thoughts in better detail on the latter replies..enough said

Thanks
Please stop the whining.

However, I always enjoy these little diatribes, especially from the new people who think they've got everything figured out. It's amusing in a way. Then again, I'm usually bored and therefore, easily amused.
Lady Brave is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.33987 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25