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Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Old 08-25-2008, 10:53 AM   #76
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Originally Posted by Daseal View Post
I'm with Beem. Last night was a terrible showing by this team, and I think it's naive to brush off getting demolished as easily as you do. The fact is we game planned, played 21 of 22 starters and got destroyed. The offense was terrible, our O line looks really bad. Jansen keeps getting worked over on a regular basis.

The starting defense did okay in the red zone. The problem was, the Panthers seemed to score before they got inside the 20. When we were backed up we were giving up FGs, but we were letting big plays happen regularly.

Is it the end of the world? Absolutely not. Is it something we, as fans, should be very concerned about? Absolutely. I remember 2006 everyone on this site crying about how preseason didn't matter as we were getting demolished and not doing simple things. The season resembled the preseason. I hope that isn't true this year.
you took the words right out of my mouth..i had a flashback of 2006 myself and that was scary in itself right there.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:40 AM   #77
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
Do you really believe JC has great pocket presence. I think thats one of his biggest problems. Its like he is never aware that a sack is coming or that he needs to move out of the pocket to buy time and just stands there until he gets hit. Thats one of the reasons he fumbles so many times while just standing in the pocket.
well i agree with you that campbell could roll out of the pocket more but from what ive observed of him and read from alot of you all here is that campbell does not get flustered or takes his eyes from down field when things are going on around him. as the experts call it "pocket presence". now that will cause him getting sacked more (and losing fumbles like we saw for a stretch last year) but it also allows him to hang tough in the pocket and make plays whereas brunnell would have thrown the ball into the stands already.

yes campbell holds onto the ball too long and waits till the receiver is open (which may be a prob with the WC off) but i thought a quarterback hanging tough in the pocket and not throwing the ball away was a good thing comparatively?

campbell is not perfect but id take him over half the nfl starters in the league. IF ONLY HE COULD LEARN TO READ A FREAKIN DEFENSE AND CHECK OFF TO HIS SECOND OPTION!!!! (i now know what im asking santa claus for xmas)

go skins!!
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:12 PM   #78
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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My first post since the game last night...

That was about as bad a performance as I've seen in a long time. Maybe the Patriots game last year compares, but the Patriots had one of the best offenses ever.

There's no need for positives, b/c there was none. Maybe the punter, but that's about it.

Can we rebound? Sure. Do I have major concerns about the offense? Yes. We haven't had one of our draft choices show any signs of being able to contribute during the regular season yet. That just leaves us, SM and ARE. I'm not sold on them getting it done.

Do I have major concerns about our D? Yes. I like Greg Blache but he hasn't proven he's of the Gregg Williams caliber yet.

This is after watching the first three preseason games. We just have a lot of question marks still. Of course, last night was about as close to live bullets as possible and we bombed. I'm not bailing but I do have major concerns.
Are you referring specifically to the wr's? If so, you're right, otherwise I disagree - Davis has looked good, and Rinehart might get some serious consideration for a starting job as the season progresses.

I know you weren't referring to the D, but the draft picks on that side of the ball have looked about as good as anyone could reasonably expect.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:20 PM   #79
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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well i agree with you that campbell could roll out of the pocket more but from what ive observed of him and read from alot of you all here is that campbell does not get flustered or takes his eyes from down field when things are going on around him. as the experts call it "pocket presence". now that will cause him getting sacked more (and losing fumbles like we saw for a stretch last year) but it also allows him to hang tough in the pocket and make plays whereas brunnell would have thrown the ball into the stands already.

yes campbell holds onto the ball too long and waits till the receiver is open (which may be a prob with the WC off) but i thought a quarterback hanging tough in the pocket and not throwing the ball away was a good thing comparatively?

campbell is not perfect but id take him over half the nfl starters in the league. IF ONLY HE COULD LEARN TO READ A FREAKIN DEFENSE AND CHECK OFF TO HIS SECOND OPTION!!!! (i now know what im asking santa claus for xmas)

go skins!!
Well I don't look at pocket presense as a guy who seems to ignore everything around him and then take a sack or loose the ball while trying to throw. I like the fact he can focuse down field but he needs to look around some and find an open WR. At some point he has to move or throw the ball away and stop taking sacks or putting the ball on the ground. He is in a new system so I'm giving him some room but some of these mistakes are ones that he has always made.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:08 PM   #80
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Things went smoothly on the first day of the Titanic's cruise, too.

Spurrier already sunk the ship for us. This won't be a team anything like Spurrier's.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:25 PM   #81
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
Do you really believe JC has great pocket presence. I think thats one of his biggest problems. Its like he is never aware that a sack is coming or that he needs to move out of the pocket to buy time and just stands there until he gets hit. Thats one of the reasons he fumbles so many times while just standing in the pocket.
Name me one QB that could've got out of the way of Carolina'a pass rush Sat. night? That had nothing to do with pocket presence. The first round draft bust named Lewis, who was released by STL simply abused Kendall. We made that bum look like Reggie White. I'm not worried about JC quite yet.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:35 PM   #82
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Name me one QB that could've got out of the way of Carolina'a pass rush Sat. night? That had nothing to do with pocket presence. The first round draft bust named Lewis, who was released by STL simply abused Kendall. We made that bum look like Reggie White. I'm not worried about JC quite yet.
The game when JC does make you worry.... I hope I miss. I cannot imagine it being much worse than Saturday.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:35 PM   #83
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Well I don't look at pocket presense as a guy who seems to ignore everything around him and then take a sack or loose the ball while trying to throw. I like the fact he can focuse down field but he needs to look around some and find an open WR. At some point he has to move or throw the ball away and stop taking sacks or putting the ball on the ground. He is in a new system so I'm giving him some room but some of these mistakes are ones that he has always made.
yeah a quarterback needs to know how to feel the pressure around him and be able to move within the pocket while keeping his eyes down field. he also needs an alarm clock in his head telling him after 2.9 seconds you need to get rid of the ball. these are things you expect in a veteran and campbell is starting the "veteran" portion of his career. hopefully he will improve and the decision to bring zorn in to help him will bear some fruit.

it might not sound like it but i agree with your thoughts firstdown. good stuff.

go skins!
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:42 PM   #84
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Did the sun rise or not?

Look, JC certainly needs to play better, but go and watch the Peppers sack again and tell me how that's JC's fault. That is a complete collapse by Samuels. MAYBE Michael Vick gets out of that one, but few others.

We got manhandled up front. Not a great game for evaluating QB play.

I'm not saying JC doesn't have to improve. No one is denying that, as far as I can tell here. But if the oline does not block, no one is going to save us at QB.

PS I am confident that Zorn will help JC to take the next step. That's one thing he does have experience with.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:49 PM   #85
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Look, JC certainly needs to play better, but go and watch the Peppers sack again and tell me how that's JC's fault. That is a complete collapse by Samuels. MAYBE Michael Vick gets out of that one, but few others.
And the other three sacks? .... I swear, I think the kid is afraid to throw the damn ball or something. He has as rocket of an arm, so throw it away.... I mean seriously, wtf?!?!
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:08 PM   #86
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

I think someone posed the question earlier, was JC not seeing open recievers?

I bring it up because we tend to put it all on him or the o line. What if nobody was open on some of those sacks? If the recievers aren't open and/or they ran the wrong routes, at least we can say that he didn't force the ball into coverage.

The pump fakes might be because he decided last second not to throw the ball into coverage. I'll take that & a sack over an int.
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:15 PM   #87
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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And the other three sacks? .... I swear, I think the kid is afraid to throw the damn ball or something. He has as rocket of an arm, so throw it away.... I mean seriously, wtf?!?!
To throw it away you have to be out of the pocket, I didn't see many opportunities for that. He had someone in his face on nearly every pass attempt it seemed.
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:26 PM   #88
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Some thoughts from Zorn:

Redskins' Starters May Not Rest Up - washingtonpost.com

During one stretch spanning two drives in the first quarter, Campbell was sacked three times in six plays. Carolina Pro Bowl defensive end Julius Peppers had a season's worth of highlight-tape footage on the third sack, pushing Samuels into Campbell, forcing a fumble and recovering the ball.

"I hate to say this, and he knows himself, and he did not play the rest of the game like this, but on the fumble [after] Jason got hit in the back, Chris Samuels wasn't ready for the explosion that he had with Julius Peppers," Zorn said. "Now, he anchored [the line] the rest of his time in there, but you've got to be ready for play [number] one. He takes pride in what he does, I know that, so it was hard for me to even say that."

Because of the offensive line's inability to provide consistent pass protection, "it was very challenging from a play-calling standpoint," Zorn said. "I was thinking about not putting our quarterback in a situation where he had to hold on to the ball for a real long time. That would have gotten into an even bigger mess. You saw us getting the ball out quick here and there 'cause it was hard to trust" the offensive linemen.

"I didn't feel like I had that luxury [to go downfield] because of the way that we were pass protecting. You have to feel solid in that pocket. You have to feel like they're going to be able to hold 'em off. You almost feel like putting one of those guys back there and saying, 'Okay, try this. Try to throw with somebody getting walked back in your face.' It's not easy."
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:26 PM   #89
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Originally Posted by JWsleep View Post
Did the sun rise or not?

Look, JC certainly needs to play better, but go and watch the Peppers sack again and tell me how that's JC's fault. That is a complete collapse by Samuels. MAYBE Michael Vick gets out of that one, but few others.

We got manhandled up front. Not a great game for evaluating QB play.

I'm not saying JC doesn't have to improve. No one is denying that, as far as I can tell here. But if the oline does not block, no one is going to save us at QB.

PS I am confident that Zorn will help JC to take the next step. That's one thing he does have experience with.
One thing I'm seeing is we're sending out 5 guys on just about every pass play. Does Zorn believe in keeping in guys to block? Cause from the looks of things our line is going to need help. It will be interesting to see what he does when the season starts. I know we all use to get on Gibbs cause he liked to keep in a lot of blockers.
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:27 PM   #90
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Awful performance by all, hard to tell if it was the WRs not being open, the OL just stinking it up, or JC not making reads and releasing quickly enough. That aside, my biggest conern with JC is that damn long release. He brings the ball down to his waist before getting it out, I know old habits are hard to break, but I was hoping Zorn would've had him broken of that one by now. Ball held too low by QB = fumble.
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