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Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

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Old 08-24-2008, 07:53 AM   #1
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Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

I watched the game and posted in the game day thread, which as anyone of you has done should understand is only a reflection of that game. During any game it is easy for emotions to run away, especially during a particularly good or particularly bad showing. I watched the postgame coverage on Comcast, saw Jim Zorn's post game presser on redskins.com, and awoke this morning to read some of the game day posts and have a different perspective.

First off, anyone who judges regular season success from preseason records is naive. It was good to have Zorn "practice" winning, but most of those wins were achieved by guys who won't be wearing the burgundy and gold come Sep 4.

The defense played a heckuva first quarter. The offense didn't get a first down, and the defense held up. Even after the sudden change on Campbell's sack they held the Panthers to a field goal. They simply wore down. The Panthers get paid too, their coaches knew this and it was a series of runs that broke this game open. In the past, our defense has carried us when our offense has looked like this. And actually, having Landry in the game would have saved a couple of touchdowns as his speed and aggressiveness would have stopped at least one of those long runs.

The offense is impossible to judge simply because on just about every play one of our lineman was losing an individual battle. But was is clear is that Jason Campbell isn't trusting this offense yet. Zorn wants him to make quick decisions, but one offseason and training camp aren't nearly enough to get acclimated to a brand new offense and philosophy. It will click with Campbell, but it will just take some trial by fire. He'll be fine, it seemed he wanted to not make a mistake and so he pumped and second guessed himself. This can be corrected, probably not in 12 days but over the first four games.

We're not as bad as this game would appear and we're not as good as that 3-0 PRESEASON record looked either. We are what we are, a team installing a new offense under a rookie head coach. There will be bumps and bruises, but I think given a chance Zorn can be a good head coach in this league. It may not be this year, although I hope it is, but he will prove himself.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:21 AM   #2
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisskin View Post
I watched the game and posted in the game day thread, which as anyone of you has done should understand is only a reflection of that game. During any game it is easy for emotions to run away, especially during a particularly good or particularly bad showing. I watched the postgame coverage on Comcast, saw Jim Zorn's post game presser on redskins.com, and awoke this morning to read some of the game day posts and have a different perspective.

First off, anyone who judges regular season success from preseason records is naive. It was good to have Zorn "practice" winning, but most of those wins were achieved by guys who won't be wearing the burgundy and gold come Sep 4.

The defense played a heckuva first quarter. The offense didn't get a first down, and the defense held up. Even after the sudden change on Campbell's sack they held the Panthers to a field goal. They simply wore down. The Panthers get paid too, their coaches knew this and it was a series of runs that broke this game open. In the past, our defense has carried us when our offense has looked like this. And actually, having Landry in the game would have saved a couple of touchdowns as his speed and aggressiveness would have stopped at least one of those long runs.

The offense is impossible to judge simply because on just about every play one of our lineman was losing an individual battle. But was is clear is that Jason Campbell isn't trusting this offense yet. Zorn wants him to make quick decisions, but one offseason and training camp aren't nearly enough to get acclimated to a brand new offense and philosophy. It will click with Campbell, but it will just take some trial by fire. He'll be fine, it seemed he wanted to not make a mistake and so he pumped and second guessed himself. This can be corrected, probably not in 12 days but over the first four games.

We're not as bad as this game would appear and we're not as good as that 3-0 PRESEASON record looked either. We are what we are, a team installing a new offense under a rookie head coach. There will be bumps and bruises, but I think given a chance Zorn can be a good head coach in this league. It may not be this year, although I hope it is, but he will prove himself.
Things went smoothly on the first day of the Titanic's cruise, too. General Custer's troops looked sharp on morning before the battle of Little Big Horn. The lift-off of the space shuttle Challenger appeared normal, initially.

Get my point? How did the starting defense do for the rest of the first half, 28 points later? Jason Campbell couldn't trust the highly-paid, starting offensive line -- so how could he "trust the offense" ??

I know some people feel better after they sleep it off -- but there is absolutely NOTHING positive you can say about any part of that game last night.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:45 AM   #3
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

I'm with Beem. Last night was a terrible showing by this team, and I think it's naive to brush off getting demolished as easily as you do. The fact is we game planned, played 21 of 22 starters and got destroyed. The offense was terrible, our O line looks really bad. Jansen keeps getting worked over on a regular basis.

The starting defense did okay in the red zone. The problem was, the Panthers seemed to score before they got inside the 20. When we were backed up we were giving up FGs, but we were letting big plays happen regularly.

Is it the end of the world? Absolutely not. Is it something we, as fans, should be very concerned about? Absolutely. I remember 2006 everyone on this site crying about how preseason didn't matter as we were getting demolished and not doing simple things. The season resembled the preseason. I hope that isn't true this year.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:53 AM   #4
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Memphisskin, I think you touched on some thoughtful points, but you put too much of a positive spin on things.

I do agree that of the two units, I'm far less concerned about the defense. LaRon Landry is indeed the lynchpin of our defense, and without his range back there we are no better than average on D. With him, we can be a top 10 defense.

Still, our inability to stop the run was alarming. Kareem Moore and Doughty took horrific angles and tackled poorly, I have no doubt Landry would have stopped Williams and Stewart on those two large runs and limited them to 10-15 yard gains. But the core problem really was that our front seven couldn't keep Carolina's backs from getting into the secondary. Even if Landry were there to stop those long runs, the way Carolina was consistenly opening holes, I have no doubt they would have just marched down the field anyway, springing the backs for 8-yard gain after 8-yard gain until they methodically marched into the end zone.

Our front 7 has a TON of work to do. I've seen them do it before, so I'm not THAT concerned, but it's still alarming.

As for the offense, we should be very concerned. This is two weeks in a row now that Campbell has hesitated. He is not making quick reads and quick decisions (even when given enough time to throw). These are the telltale signs of a guy still learning an offense. The WCO is dependent upon the timing and the ability of the QB to make quick reads. You must be confident in your knowledge of the offense to make the reads quickly enough. You can tell Campbell is nowhere close.

And of course, none of that will matter if we can't protect the QB, because then not only will we miss opportunities, but we'll take sacks and turn the ball over.

The offense has MILES to go, we're showing signs of being the worst offense in the league. Yes, maybe it's just preseason and we didn't bring our bread and butter. We can hope that's the case - but nothing we've seen over the past two weeks gives us any indication that will be the case.

Too many fans are dismissing this poor performance on the HOPE that "it's just preseason." But careful and thoughtful analysis indicates that we suck balls at this point.

Someone in another thread said we're headed for a 1-4 start. I'd actually be impressed with the coaching staff if we manage to do better than that.

We're in for a tough year.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:14 AM   #5
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

a blowout is a blowout. they happen. the giants lost to the jets who we beat. it is all preseason, and the games don't count.
ok enough cliches. JC had a terrible game regardless of the line play, on one sack i counted to 10 before he got sacked. and his postgame remarks with Kelli J were deflecting criticism far too much. this game, and his theismann and postgame interviews, really diminished my view of Campbell. i still believe the team will have a great year, but if not then it ought to be JC's last.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:22 AM   #6
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Even for preseason, 47-3 is an embarrasment. Even if the score is lopsided at least the team should show some good technique and skill. They did not.
I said it on the first we got Jason Taylor, our two DE are pass rushers. Stopping the run is not their strength. PLus we are not deep with the few run stoppers we do have. IF we can not stop the run, it will be very long Spurrier type season. I have been really concerned about our ability to stop the run since Phillip Daniels went down. We do not have a true LDE - Strong side DE. WE have two RDE pash rush guys. This may really come back to bite us.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:43 AM   #7
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
Things went smoothly on the first day of the Titanic's cruise, too. General Custer's troops looked sharp on morning before the battle of Little Big Horn. The lift-off of the space shuttle Challenger appeared normal, initially.

Get my point? How did the starting defense do for the rest of the first half, 28 points later? Jason Campbell couldn't trust the highly-paid, starting offensive line -- so how could he "trust the offense" ??

I know some people feel better after they sleep it off -- but there is absolutely NOTHING positive you can say about any part of that game last night.
Great points, and you're right, there is nothing positive about last night's game.

As for Jason Campbell not trusting the offense, I'm basing that on some things Zorn has said in his press conferences and on Jason double and triple pumping. Jason Campbell said this offense was about throwing into open zones, which means he has to trust his receivers to get open before they actually are. When he's back there double and triple pumping (which he actually did on the long pass to Randle El up the left sideline) then he's not trusting the offense. In fact, him double pumping is trusting the offensive line to protect him instead of doing what the play is designed to do.

It was a preseason game, get the ball out of your hand! I love Jason Campbell, will be buying a #17 jersey home white pretty soon, and think he can be a heckuva qb. But he's got to let the ball go, and to me it seemed like was hesitating because he didn't trust his reads. He needs some confidence, hopefully he has a better showing next Thurs.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:48 AM   #8
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Also, I kept wanting to see some player leadership (on the field and sidelines) and I wanted to see some coaches in some players faces (not looking at overhead photos). Which coach is our fire breather?
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:54 AM   #9
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

i am not blaming it ALL on cambell but it makes me ill to watch him play. collins is much better. The coach says jason is the future??WHAT FUTURE WOULD THAT BE.the only times he doesnt go three and out is when he gets picked. then its 2 and out.HE NEEDS TO THROW THE DAMN BALL!!
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:06 AM   #10
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

JC is just scared to make a bad throw, he needs to let it ride.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:10 AM   #11
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

The forum was just gearing up for the regular season last night. It's been a while since we went through a loss so I think we forgot about what happens around here. For starters, the usual cast of armchair coaches that have very little or nothing to say after a W come out of the woodwork with plenty to say.

Some of the typical reactions include:

-Fire the coach.

-Somebody needs to be cut or traded.

-The coach needs to start yelling more.

-Bench the QB.

-The players should be running an insane amount of laps after practice.

-Why aren't we going a certain free agent that's available?

-Why didn't we draft a certain player?

-Why did we draft a certain player?

-The season is over.

-We're the laughingstock of the entire league.

-Ex-players and coaches are laughing at us.

-Snyder needs to sell the team.

-If you're not criticizing the team you don't know what's going on.

-We're not making the playoffs.

-We're going to have the 1st pick in the draft.

Did I miss anything? Feel free to add your own.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:15 AM   #12
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daseal View Post
I'm with Beem. Last night was a terrible showing by this team, and I think it's naive to brush off getting demolished as easily as you do. The fact is we game planned, played 21 of 22 starters and got destroyed. The offense was terrible, our O line looks really bad. Jansen keeps getting worked over on a regular basis.

The starting defense did okay in the red zone. The problem was, the Panthers seemed to score before they got inside the 20. When we were backed up we were giving up FGs, but we were letting big plays happen regularly.

Is it the end of the world? Absolutely not. Is it something we, as fans, should be very concerned about? Absolutely. I remember 2006 everyone on this site crying about how preseason didn't matter as we were getting demolished and not doing simple things. The season resembled the preseason. I hope that isn't true this year.

20 of 22. Washington and Landry were both out, but whose counting.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:26 AM   #13
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
The forum was just gearing up for the regular season last night. It's been a while since we went through a loss so I think we forgot about what happens around here. For starters, the usual cast of armchair coaches that have very little or nothing to say after a W come out of the woodwork with plenty to say.

Some of the typical reactions include:

-Fire the coach.

-Somebody needs to be cut or traded.

-The coach needs to start yelling more.

-Bench the QB.

-The players should be running an insane amount of laps after practice.

-Why aren't we going a certain free agent that's available?

-Why didn't we draft a certain player?

-Why did we draft a certain player?

-The season is over.

-We're the laughingstock of the entire league.

-Ex-players and coaches are laughing at us.

-Snyder needs to sell the team.

-If you're not criticizing the team you don't know what's going on.

-We're not making the playoffs.

-We're going to have the 1st pick in the draft.

Did I miss anything? Feel free to add your own.
Well there was this one from this thread..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10
The offense has MILES to go, we're showing signs of being the worst offense in the league.
Also:
-This won't happen under Bill Cowher next year

-Cerrato needs to be fired and we need a real GM

-If Patrick Ramsey was only given a fair chance we wouldn't be wondering if Campbell can be our QB

-Collins won 4 games in '07 and should be the starter

-Why don't we bring back Lavar Arrington


I didn't see the game, I'll watch the replay on NFL-N at 1pm but I doubt that, as seems to be the prevailing notion on here, that we are destined to be the '07 Dolphins all of a sudden. We got our asses kicked. You know what, it happens. We've gotten our asses kicked before and will again. Just as 3 preseason wins doesn't win us a Lombardi Trophy, a bad preseason loss doesn't lock up the #1 pick. The recall to 2006 is much different, we looked horrible from the first snap of the preseason, not just one game. Other than last night, we've looked pretty decent in all phases the entire summer, the wheels didn't permanently come off the wagon last night.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:31 AM   #14
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

I was one of the people that wanted us to draft lineman with all our picks, just saying.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:38 AM   #15
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Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

I know some people feel better after they sleep it off -- but there is absolutely NOTHING positive you can say about any part of that game last night.


Frost looked good............LOL.
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