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Old 09-08-2008, 10:49 AM   #16
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Originally Posted by djnemo65 View Post
Yeah but how can you bail on a guy who has done everything right and is a team leader - by all accounts working harder than anyone the last two offseasons in spite of having his learning curve complicated by a constantly rotating offensive system - after one game in a new system?

It sounds like you are making the same criticisms of Campbell's performance against the Giants that many, including me, have made in other threads; the difference is that you are framing them as irreparable flaws, not correctible hiccups. Where I see a bad game, you seem to see a bad player. When one of your athletically gifted players holds the ball too long habitually, for example, do you bail on him or do you coach him up? Does it never occur to you that players are more likely to play with hesitation when they are still learning a new system?

Maybe you are right about the guy but there is too much invested in Campbell to even consider changing course until he has had at least a year to prove himself in this new offense. Don't forget, not only did he put up big numbers in the west coast system at Auburn, he was also an ice blooded clutch performer who commanded the respect of his teammates while authoring an undefeated season. So let's at least wait untill week 2 before we write his obituary, ok?
Didn't we give him two seasons with Al Saunders offense. He never shined there either. Listen, He is just O.K. Maybe alittle better than Kyle Orton.
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:04 AM   #17
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Originally Posted by djnemo65 View Post
Yeah but how can you bail on a guy who has done everything right and is a team leader - by all accounts working harder than anyone the last two offseasons in spite of having his learning curve complicated by a constantly rotating offensive system - after one game in a new system?

It sounds like you are making the same criticisms of Campbell's performance against the Giants that many, including me, have made in other threads; the difference is that you are framing them as irreparable flaws, not correctible hiccups. Where I see a bad game, you seem to see a bad player. When one of your athletically gifted players holds the ball too long habitually, for example, do you bail on him or do you coach him up? Does it never occur to you that players are more likely to play with hesitation when they are still learning a new system?
Gotta address this. You cannot teach reaction speed to conditions a guy hasn't seen before. Some guys just process better tham others. To me, it looked like Colt may have that gift (though he is not ready to start yet). Jason doesn't seem to have it, but attempts to make up for it through hard work. Can he learn to learn to get the ball out faster? Yes. Can he learn to operate the system effectively, Yes. Can he learn to make better instantaneous decisions under pressure? NO! And this will probably keep him from being an elite QB. I stress the word "instantaneous". The ability to do this has a lot to do with how you brain is wired. The decisions are subconscious. Most of your brains wiring is complete by adolesence. It can be improved marginally, but only so much. There are other statgies that can be used to improve decision making, but I'm not sure they apply well to football. The book "Blink" offers some insight.
The good news is that Jason doesn't need to be elite. He just has to be good, effective, and steady.

Also, I wish people would stop telling us how they "feel" about certain players (i.e. Devin Thomas). Support Your position with facts not feelings.
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:14 AM   #18
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Re: Football IQ Only

Campbell's been talking lately about having trouble seeing the WRs through the linemen (particularly when he's not lining up in shotgun formation). Maybe I'm reading way too much into it but it's almost like he's saying "Once I get guys in there closer to my height (Kelly and Thomas). It will be much easier"
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:20 AM   #19
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Re: Football IQ Only

I was under the impression that a QB in the WCO throws to a spot on the field (not at the reciever) and that most of the routes were based on timing. Several good QB's throw to a spot on the field, why cant JC just trust his recievers to be where they are supposed to be?
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:32 AM   #20
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Re: Football IQ Only

Well I'm not giving up on JC now but to me there are some thing that stand out that I don't know if its because he has had so many O's or its just him. One thing that I have seen in JC is that he locks on to one WR. It really stood out last year in our home game against the Giants last year. I was up high looking down on the field and there was 7 to 10 plays where we had WR's very wide open and JC dumped it off or threw to a covered WR. Even my wife asked why he was not throwing to these WR's.
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:49 AM   #21
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Campbell's been talking lately about having trouble seeing the WRs through the linemen (particularly when he's not lining up in shotgun formation). Maybe I'm reading way too much into it but it's almost like he's saying "Once I get guys in there closer to my height (Kelly and Thomas). It will be much easier"
As tall as JC is, this doesn't make sesne. He as tall or taller than most of the linemen.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:24 PM   #22
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Good Evening fellow Skins Fans. This will be a rather lengthy post and I hope you do not mind. Also, I would like to ask that this post is only answered with objective foootball knowledge/experience and not emotional fan-based sensitivity. With all of that said I will begin.

First, I was raised on the Redskins and bleed, absolutely bleed the Burgundy & Gold so please do not take my statements as "quitting" on the team we all love. We can no longer ignore the shortcomings of Jason Campbell. As a player, former Div II Offensive Coordinator, and Offensive Coordinator/Quaterbacks Coach at a North Carolina High School who sent off 6 Division I football players last year (4 offensive players); I understand the quarterback position. And as of this year, Jason Campbell is not an upper-tier NFL QB. What makes a QB great in this game is leadership ability, ability to read/react to the defense, pocket awareness, and accuracy. However, it is in these areas where Jason has the most detriment. I have been charting his games as I would any of the QB's I have ever worked with at the start of last season. First, how can Clinton Portis be the leader of your offense? The QB absolutley has to be the vocal, emotional, physical leader of the offense. Second, he holds the ball entirely too long, especially in a West Coast System. Third, he regularly locks on too one reciever and has shown to be inept and basic when it comes reading and reacting to the defense. Why do you think it is so easy to defend him? Coordinators know that JC cannot hurt them. Our O-Line isn't really that bad as many would be led to believe. The line is constantly overmatched as defenses send 6,7, sometimes 8 defenders because they know JC cannot react and has a super slow processing time. Processing is the term used by QB coaches that refers to his anaylsis and diagnosis of what he sees after snap is typically two to three seconds slower than your average to elite NFL QB.

I hope the young man does well because I think he is a super guy. However, this is the NFL, not church. Let's now look at some ways they could help him, if they they mistakenly stay with him as a starter. I do think, however, that the addition of Malcolm Kelly can really help his confidence. Devin Thomas will not be in this league longer than 3 years. However, mark my words, as an offensive guy, from what I've seen of Malcolm Kelly, his skills/body type, are comparable to many of the NFL's elite recievers. Also, another way they could help is getting off this crack fantasy that Moss is a No.1 reciever. He is too small and simply cannot be seen by JC in traffic, not to mention terrible hands. Your No.1 reciever cannot be a streaky, although,exciting and talented guy. They have to consistently get open and move chains. Also, they need to scrap that old-style Gibbs running game and go to the West Coast Zone blocking scheme in which Portis became a star in Denver. And please, please, stop keeping your best recieving threat in Cooley in the backfield to block!!!

I could go on and on but I will end this now. Thanks for listening to my rant. Hail !!!!
Question how many titles have your teams won? Just a question I am curious. I am not questioning your knowledge of the game or your expertise. I just want to know.

We have to be frank here and use some common sense. I agree with a lot of things you have said. But also you have to take in many contributing factors. Poor O-line play. Receivers are learning this offense also. WRs dropping balls. Our rookie receivers being hurt throughout training camp.

This is the first freaking game. People are really OVERACTING. We were playing the defending Super Bowl champs.

Saying that. We only lost by 9 points. This is a work in progress. Many factions of our team were not playing well. Also remember the Giants didn't score in the second half. Saying that. The WHOLE offense needs to speed up its grasp of this offense. This offense needs to gel. If anyone expected us to come out the box and be the greatest show on turf. Then you weren't be realistic. Give the team a chance. Give JC a chance. This is only the first freaking game. Zorn needs to step his game up. If we had some consistency the past few years we would have been much further along. But this is a learning process for everyone including the coach.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:36 PM   #23
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Originally Posted by hesscl34 View Post
As tall as JC is, this doesn't make sesne. He as tall or taller than most of the linemen.
However Zorn has adjusted Campbell's stance in the pocket, not wanting him to stand so tall, but in a more compact/athletic setup. Perhaps that has changed Campbell's view of the developing play compared to the past.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:51 PM   #24
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Re: Football IQ Only

Al Saunders offense?!? Are you kidding me? Tom Brady would have a hard time running Al's offense with his 789 page playbook. Did you see the Rams yesterday? They were shut out, and Kyle is a good QB. Al's offense worked in KC because he was rooted there for a long time, and the players went for it. It took him three years to get KC up to what it "was", and he only had two years in Washington. I don't think Al Saunders offense will work in the NFL anymore anyways.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:55 PM   #25
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Re: Football IQ Only

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As tall as JC is, this doesn't make sesne. He as tall or taller than most of the linemen.
6'5 JC----------6'6 Samuels-------------5'9 Moss



I kind of see how it's hard to see
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:58 PM   #26
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Re: Football IQ Only

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6'5 JC----------6'6 Samuels-------------5'9 Moss



I kind of see how it's hard to see
Just to add: Thomas is 6'5, Kendall is 6'6, Rabach is 6'4, and Heyer is 6'6.
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:02 PM   #27
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Didn't we give him two seasons with Al Saunders offense. He never shined there either. Listen, He is just O.K. Maybe alittle better than Kyle Orton.
Who has shined in Al Saunders offense? ......Trent Green? NO!!! How many super bowls or playoffs appearances besides last year has the Saunders offense produced since the 2000's?
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:03 PM   #28
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Just to add: Thomas is 6'5, Kendall is 6'6, Rabach is 6'4, and Heyer is 6'6.
Are you really going to agrue about inches (1 or 2)?

Collins and Brunell had no issues finding Moss and other receivers through their very tall linemen....
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:06 PM   #29
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Are you really going to agrue about inches (1 or 2)?

Collins and Brunell had no issues finding Moss and other receivers through their very tall linemen....
Point is we do have a tall OL and some short WRs, that's all.
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:07 PM   #30
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Re: Football IQ Only

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Are you really going to agrue about inches (1 or 2)?

Collins and Brunell had no issues finding Moss and other receivers through their very tall linemen....
during the preseason Collins had taller recievers Mann, Mcmullen & Mix all taller than Randle El & Moss. Collins didn't run with the first team offense either. Brunell wasn't in the same system.
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