Football IQ Only

Skins4Eva · 09-07-2008, 05:45 PM

Good Evening fellow Skins Fans. This will be a rather lengthy post and I hope you do not mind. Also, I would like to ask that this post is only answered with objective foootball knowledge/experience and not emotional fan-based sensitivity. With all of that said I will begin.

First, I was raised on the Redskins and bleed, absolutely bleed the Burgundy & Gold so please do not take my statements as "quitting" on the team we all love. We can no longer ignore the shortcomings of Jason Campbell. As a player, former Div II Offensive Coordinator, and Offensive Coordinator/Quaterbacks Coach at a North Carolina High School who sent off 6 Division I football players last year (4 offensive players); I understand the quarterback position. And as of this year, Jason Campbell is not an upper-tier NFL QB. What makes a QB great in this game is leadership ability, ability to read/react to the defense, pocket awareness, and accuracy. However, it is in these areas where Jason has the most detriment. I have been charting his games as I would any of the QB's I have ever worked with at the start of last season. First, how can Clinton Portis be the leader of your offense? The QB absolutley has to be the vocal, emotional, physical leader of the offense. Second, he holds the ball entirely too long, especially in a West Coast System. Third, he regularly locks on too one reciever and has shown to be inept and basic when it comes reading and reacting to the defense. Why do you think it is so easy to defend him? Coordinators know that JC cannot hurt them. Our O-Line isn't really that bad as many would be led to believe. The line is constantly overmatched as defenses send 6,7, sometimes 8 defenders because they know JC cannot react and has a super slow processing time. Processing is the term used by QB coaches that refers to his anaylsis and diagnosis of what he sees after snap is typically two to three seconds slower than your average to elite NFL QB.

I hope the young man does well because I think he is a super guy. However, this is the NFL, not church. Let's now look at some ways they could help him, if they they mistakenly stay with him as a starter. I do think, however, that the addition of Malcolm Kelly can really help his confidence. Devin Thomas will not be in this league longer than 3 years. However, mark my words, as an offensive guy, from what I've seen of Malcolm Kelly, his skills/body type, are comparable to many of the NFL's elite recievers. Also, another way they could help is getting off this crack fantasy that Moss is a No.1 reciever. He is too small and simply cannot be seen by JC in traffic, not to mention terrible hands. Your No.1 reciever cannot be a streaky, although,exciting and talented guy. They have to consistently get open and move chains. Also, they need to scrap that old-style Gibbs running game and go to the West Coast Zone blocking scheme in which Portis became a star in Denver. And please, please, stop keeping your best recieving threat in Cooley in the backfield to block!!!

I could go on and on but I will end this now. Thanks for listening to my rant. Hail !!!!

hooskins · 09-07-2008, 05:54 PM

First of all is this thread really needed, or is this a cry for attention? We already have a JC thread...

Hog1 · 09-07-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skins4Eva

Good Evening fellow Skins Fans. I would like to ask that this post is only answered with objective foootball knowledge/experience and not emotional fan-based sensitivity.

I agree with much of your assessment as to JC, though to early to throw in the towel and call it a career. I think JZ will pull the trigger on that when the time is here, especially since it is not his QB. HOWEVER, I feel it only fair to warn you "objective football knowledge/experience......." can be a little hard to come by in Skinsville.
BEWARE

SouperMeister · 09-07-2008, 06:08 PM

Well as a coach, I'm sure you can concede that keeping a QB in a system for an extended period helps him to make good decisions more quickly. Campbell is just starting to learn his 3rd offensive system in 4 years here. This has been my biggest knock on Snyder - a lack of continuity. If we go 4-12 this year, I do not want him to fire Zorn. Commit to a system and stick to it. Campbell was a State Champion in HS and led Auburn to an undefeated season as a senior. I'm convinced that the guy has the physical tools, and more importantly, the work ethic to be a great player IF we keep him in a program long enough to become great.

jsarno · 09-07-2008, 06:12 PM

Most of what you are saying is on other threads. So I will say two things...
1- You are stating truths, however, how can anyone possibly expect him to grasp this right off the bat when his coach is a rookie as well. (how many times have I said that?) You need to give him time, this is not like playing checkers.
2- Devin Thomas will be out in 3 years???????? WHAT?????? If Taylor Jacobs can last 6 years (this is his 6th season) then why can't Thomas last 3? I'm not saying Thomas is the next hall of famer, but he certainly has a lot of skills and will be around a while.

cpayne5 · 09-07-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWilly_2003

Wow Skins4Eva....

Lol you make me sick dude. You coach high school, so what in the hell do you know? Devin Thomas out in three years?!? Are you on drugs? You know jack, and JC will be and is a good QB in the NFL. He is coming on to his 5th or 6th off., give him a break. Tell me if you are so smart in football, then how did Matt Hasselbeck do in Sea. his first two years there? My god you are just like all those other freaks out there calling for #5 to take the field. We already know the stuff you stated in your post, just because we dont coach doesnt mean we are stupid. Its a rookie HC, a new system, and a fan base that wont give anyone a chance. Last season I watched fans booo Joe Gibbs, Joe "Three Super Bowl Wins" Gibbs. This year already I have seen them boo JC, and Zorn. So you are no different, you just try to hide behind your so called High School football knowledge.

I'd wager he knows more than you.

Inappropriate reply, KWilly_2003.

cpayne5 · 09-07-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWilly_2003

Inappropriate reply? Yea I don't think so. So what if he coaches high school, that doesn't make him any more better than me at knowing the pro-game. I wager he knows more than you too cpayne5. I sick and tired of people downing the skins after one game and saying JC isnt the guy. His remarks on Thomas are flat out wrong. I have every right to say what I feel, and I know that with a new system there will be growing pains. I didn't jump the gun like some of you. True fans of the NFL are giving them more than one week to prove themselves.

Maybe so. I don't agree with his post, but I respect the way in which he presented his opinion. He articulated it very well. You, on the other hand, attempted to discredit the person rather than the opinion. So, yes, inappropriate.

(Like you, I think people are jumping the gun way too early, also.

)

djnemo65 · 09-07-2008, 09:33 PM

Yeah but how can you bail on a guy who has done everything right and is a team leader - by all accounts working harder than anyone the last two offseasons in spite of having his learning curve complicated by a constantly rotating offensive system - after one game in a new system?

It sounds like you are making the same criticisms of Campbell's performance against the Giants that many, including me, have made in other threads; the difference is that you are framing them as irreparable flaws, not correctible hiccups. Where I see a bad game, you seem to see a bad player. When one of your athletically gifted players holds the ball too long habitually, for example, do you bail on him or do you coach him up? Does it never occur to you that players are more likely to play with hesitation when they are still learning a new system?

Maybe you are right about the guy but there is too much invested in Campbell to even consider changing course until he has had at least a year to prove himself in this new offense. Don't forget, not only did he put up big numbers in the west coast system at Auburn, he was also an ice blooded clutch performer who commanded the respect of his teammates while authoring an undefeated season. So let's at least wait untill week 2 before we write his obituary, ok?

That Guy · 09-08-2008, 07:46 AM

too much brady hate. it's not his fault he's good or his team's a winner... if you don't like that bill might be a bit sjady, that's understandable, but brady didn't wake up yesterday and kill your mom or eat your children...

SOUL-SKINS · 09-08-2008, 08:03 AM

Its pretty simple actually......when you got it you got it, when you don't you don't,
unfortunatly JC doesn't. Hello! He is 1-5 in his last 6 starts. Thats ****ing horrible.

redskinsgirl · 09-08-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Yeah but how can you bail on a guy who has done everything right and is a team leader - by all accounts working harder than anyone the last two offseasons in spite of having his learning curve complicated by a constantly rotating offensive system - after one game in a new system?

It sounds like you are making the same criticisms of Campbell's performance against the Giants that many, including me, have made in other threads; the difference is that you are framing them as irreparable flaws, not correctible hiccups. Where I see a bad game, you seem to see a bad player. When one of your athletically gifted players holds the ball too long habitually, for example, do you bail on him or do you coach him up? Does it never occur to you that players are more likely to play with hesitation when they are still learning a new system?

Maybe you are right about the guy but there is too much invested in Campbell to even consider changing course until he has had at least a year to prove himself in this new offense. Don't forget, not only did he put up big numbers in the west coast system at Auburn, he was also an ice blooded clutch performer who commanded the respect of his teammates while authoring an undefeated season. So let's at least wait untill week 2 before we write his obituary, ok?

Good Point!

SOUL-SKINS · 09-08-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Yeah but how can you bail on a guy who has done everything right and is a team leader - by all accounts working harder than anyone the last two offseasons in spite of having his learning curve complicated by a constantly rotating offensive system - after one game in a new system?

It sounds like you are making the same criticisms of Campbell's performance against the Giants that many, including me, have made in other threads; the difference is that you are framing them as irreparable flaws, not correctible hiccups. Where I see a bad game, you seem to see a bad player. When one of your athletically gifted players holds the ball too long habitually, for example, do you bail on him or do you coach him up? Does it never occur to you that players are more likely to play with hesitation when they are still learning a new system?

Maybe you are right about the guy but there is too much invested in Campbell to even consider changing course until he has had at least a year to prove himself in this new offense. Don't forget, not only did he put up big numbers in the west coast system at Auburn, he was also an ice blooded clutch performer who commanded the respect of his teammates while authoring an undefeated season. So let's at least wait untill week 2 before we write his obituary, ok?

Didn't we give him two seasons with Al Saunders offense. He never shined there either. Listen, He is just O.K. Maybe alittle better than Kyle Orton.

GoSkins! · 09-08-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Yeah but how can you bail on a guy who has done everything right and is a team leader - by all accounts working harder than anyone the last two offseasons in spite of having his learning curve complicated by a constantly rotating offensive system - after one game in a new system?

It sounds like you are making the same criticisms of Campbell's performance against the Giants that many, including me, have made in other threads; the difference is that you are framing them as irreparable flaws, not correctible hiccups. Where I see a bad game, you seem to see a bad player. When one of your athletically gifted players holds the ball too long habitually, for example, do you bail on him or do you coach him up? Does it never occur to you that players are more likely to play with hesitation when they are still learning a new system?

Gotta address this. You cannot teach reaction speed to conditions a guy hasn't seen before. Some guys just process better tham others. To me, it looked like Colt may have that gift (though he is not ready to start yet). Jason doesn't seem to have it, but attempts to make up for it through hard work. Can he learn to learn to get the ball out faster? Yes. Can he learn to operate the system effectively, Yes. Can he learn to make better instantaneous decisions under pressure? NO! And this will probably keep him from being an elite QB. I stress the word "instantaneous". The ability to do this has a lot to do with how you brain is wired. The decisions are subconscious. Most of your brains wiring is complete by adolesence. It can be improved marginally, but only so much. There are other statgies that can be used to improve decision making, but I'm not sure they apply well to football. The book "Blink" offers some insight.
The good news is that Jason doesn't need to be elite. He just has to be good, effective, and steady.

Also, I wish people would stop telling us how they "feel" about certain players (i.e. Devin Thomas). Support Your position with facts not feelings.

SmootSmack · 09-08-2008, 10:14 AM

Campbell's been talking lately about having trouble seeing the WRs through the linemen (particularly when he's not lining up in shotgun formation). Maybe I'm reading way too much into it but it's almost like he's saying "Once I get guys in there closer to my height (Kelly and Thomas). It will be much easier"

KLHJ2 · 09-08-2008, 10:20 AM

I was under the impression that a QB in the WCO throws to a spot on the field (not at the reciever) and that most of the routes were based on timing. Several good QB's throw to a spot on the field, why cant JC just trust his recievers to be where they are supposed to be?

09-07-2008, 05:45 PM	#1
Skins4Eva Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 72	Football IQ Only Good Evening fellow Skins Fans. This will be a rather lengthy post and I hope you do not mind. Also, I would like to ask that this post is only answered with objective foootball knowledge/experience and not emotional fan-based sensitivity. With all of that said I will begin. First, I was raised on the Redskins and bleed, absolutely bleed the Burgundy & Gold so please do not take my statements as "quitting" on the team we all love. We can no longer ignore the shortcomings of Jason Campbell. As a player, former Div II Offensive Coordinator, and Offensive Coordinator/Quaterbacks Coach at a North Carolina High School who sent off 6 Division I football players last year (4 offensive players); I understand the quarterback position. And as of this year, Jason Campbell is not an upper-tier NFL QB. What makes a QB great in this game is leadership ability, ability to read/react to the defense, pocket awareness, and accuracy. However, it is in these areas where Jason has the most detriment. I have been charting his games as I would any of the QB's I have ever worked with at the start of last season. First, how can Clinton Portis be the leader of your offense? The QB absolutley has to be the vocal, emotional, physical leader of the offense. Second, he holds the ball entirely too long, especially in a West Coast System. Third, he regularly locks on too one reciever and has shown to be inept and basic when it comes reading and reacting to the defense. Why do you think it is so easy to defend him? Coordinators know that JC cannot hurt them. Our O-Line isn't really that bad as many would be led to believe. The line is constantly overmatched as defenses send 6,7, sometimes 8 defenders because they know JC cannot react and has a super slow processing time. Processing is the term used by QB coaches that refers to his anaylsis and diagnosis of what he sees after snap is typically two to three seconds slower than your average to elite NFL QB. I hope the young man does well because I think he is a super guy. However, this is the NFL, not church. Let's now look at some ways they could help him, if they they mistakenly stay with him as a starter. I do think, however, that the addition of Malcolm Kelly can really help his confidence. Devin Thomas will not be in this league longer than 3 years. However, mark my words, as an offensive guy, from what I've seen of Malcolm Kelly, his skills/body type, are comparable to many of the NFL's elite recievers. Also, another way they could help is getting off this crack fantasy that Moss is a No.1 reciever. He is too small and simply cannot be seen by JC in traffic, not to mention terrible hands. Your No.1 reciever cannot be a streaky, although,exciting and talented guy. They have to consistently get open and move chains. Also, they need to scrap that old-style Gibbs running game and go to the West Coast Zone blocking scheme in which Portis became a star in Denver. And please, please, stop keeping your best recieving threat in Cooley in the backfield to block!!! I could go on and on but I will end this now. Thanks for listening to my rant. Hail !!!! __________________ Bow down and recognize the skills of the Gibbs

09-07-2008, 05:54 PM	#2
hooskins Most Interesting Man in the World Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chantilly, VA Age: 25 Posts: 8,557	Re: Football IQ Only First of all is this thread really needed, or is this a cry for attention? We already have a JC thread... __________________ Vacancy

09-07-2008, 06:08 PM	#4
SouperMeister Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 48 Posts: 2,917	Re: Football IQ Only Well as a coach, I'm sure you can concede that keeping a QB in a system for an extended period helps him to make good decisions more quickly. Campbell is just starting to learn his 3rd offensive system in 4 years here. This has been my biggest knock on Snyder - a lack of continuity. If we go 4-12 this year, I do not want him to fire Zorn. Commit to a system and stick to it. Campbell was a State Champion in HS and led Auburn to an undefeated season as a senior. I'm convinced that the guy has the physical tools, and more importantly, the work ethic to be a great player IF we keep him in a program long enough to become great.

09-07-2008, 09:33 PM	#8
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Location: MA Age: 32 Posts: 2,836	Re: Football IQ Only Yeah but how can you bail on a guy who has done everything right and is a team leader - by all accounts working harder than anyone the last two offseasons in spite of having his learning curve complicated by a constantly rotating offensive system - after one game in a new system? It sounds like you are making the same criticisms of Campbell's performance against the Giants that many, including me, have made in other threads; the difference is that you are framing them as irreparable flaws, not correctible hiccups. Where I see a bad game, you seem to see a bad player. When one of your athletically gifted players holds the ball too long habitually, for example, do you bail on him or do you coach him up? Does it never occur to you that players are more likely to play with hesitation when they are still learning a new system? Maybe you are right about the guy but there is too much invested in Campbell to even consider changing course until he has had at least a year to prove himself in this new offense. Don't forget, not only did he put up big numbers in the west coast system at Auburn, he was also an ice blooded clutch performer who commanded the respect of his teammates while authoring an undefeated season. So let's at least wait untill week 2 before we write his obituary, ok?

09-08-2008, 07:46 AM	#9
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 30 Posts: 15,620	Re: Football IQ Only too much brady hate. it's not his fault he's good or his team's a winner... if you don't like that bill might be a bit sjady, that's understandable, but brady didn't wake up yesterday and kill your mom or eat your children... __________________ Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!

09-07-2008, 06:12 PM	#5
jsarno Franchise Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 31 Spooner St. Age: 38 Posts: 9,534	Re: Football IQ Only Most of what you are saying is on other threads. So I will say two things... 1- You are stating truths, however, how can anyone possibly expect him to grasp this right off the bat when his coach is a rookie as well. (how many times have I said that?) You need to give him time, this is not like playing checkers. 2- Devin Thomas will be out in 3 years???????? WHAT?????? If Taylor Jacobs can last 6 years (this is his 6th season) then why can't Thomas last 3? I'm not saying Thomas is the next hall of famer, but he certainly has a lot of skills and will be around a while. __________________ Zoltan is ZESTY! - courtesy of joeredskin

09-08-2008, 08:03 AM	#10
SOUL-SKINS Impact Rookie Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 828	Re: Football IQ Only Its pretty simple actually......when you got it you got it, when you don't you don't, unfortunatly JC doesn't. Hello! He is 1-5 in his last 6 starts. Thats ****ing horrible.

09-08-2008, 10:14 AM	#14
SmootSmack Mad Men Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,098	Re: Football IQ Only Campbell's been talking lately about having trouble seeing the WRs through the linemen (particularly when he's not lining up in shotgun formation). Maybe I'm reading way too much into it but it's almost like he's saying "Once I get guys in there closer to my height (Kelly and Thomas). It will be much easier" __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-08-2008, 10:20 AM	#15
KLHJ2 Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: DC Metro Area Age: 34 Posts: 5,823	Re: Football IQ Only I was under the impression that a QB in the WCO throws to a spot on the field (not at the reciever) and that most of the routes were based on timing. Several good QB's throw to a spot on the field, why cant JC just trust his recievers to be where they are supposed to be? __________________ Read "The Book", life will gain meaning.

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