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Old 09-08-2008, 02:41 PM   #31
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

Anybody see that WR for the Eagles who was a second round draft pick yesterday? He looked like Gale fricking Sayers. We would have only needed to draft one of him.

Mr Snyder needs to understand just one thing. The fans in this town are not going to be hoodwinked into blaming this whole thing on Jim Zorn. This is his and Vinnies doing, so unless he is willing to relinquish ownerswhip of the team, he knows what needs to be done. Vinnie will land on his feet. He can go back to parking cars for the 49ers.
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Old 09-08-2008, 02:46 PM   #32
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior View Post
Ok........ it's like this I hope I DON'T OFFEND ANYBODY WITH THIS POST

I think JC is unsure and holds the ball longer because he has a slave mentality before you go postal and everything let me explain.

Joe Gibbs played soft and didn't take many chances was a strong believer in the power run game didn't take the handcuffs off JC or the offense as a whole IMO. Now true enough JC has had plenty of coordinators no doubt and that played a vital part in his success. But he was still under Gibbs for three years the safe, conservative play mentality was still there even though the coordinator changed. Now you have a totally different coach, different mentality, more of a killer instinct then Gibbs in Zorn. Taking the cuffs off JC and do away with the conservative play. Zorn wants JC to trust his arm and his receivers well those three years under Gibbs plays a big factor. You can't expect JC within 6 or 7 months to get out of that mindset it takes time and Zorn know that. If you notice he didn't turnover the ball over and he is unsure about things. I rather have a conservative don't want to make a mistake QB then a Rex Grossman reckless throw 3 ints two for tds in one game QB. Time will tell but we have to be patient.
It's definitely a valid point that along with a change in offense comes a change in philosophy. It's not an easy thing to adjust to as we're seeing.

It's not as simple as the plays and verbiage changing, it's the entire mindset of what Zorn wants him to do vs. what Gibbs/Saunders wanted him to do.

Good post.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:01 PM   #33
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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Anybody see that WR for the Eagles who was a second round draft pick yesterday? He looked like Gale fricking Sayers. We would have only needed to draft one of him.

Mr Snyder needs to understand just one thing. The fans in this town are not going to be hoodwinked into blaming this whole thing on Jim Zorn. This is his and Vinnies doing, so unless he is willing to relinquish ownerswhip of the team, he knows what needs to be done. Vinnie will land on his feet. He can go back to parking cars for the 49ers.
Maybe our scouting wasn't good enough. I wonder if the team got too caught up with the whole "first round quality" label of our rookie WRs.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:14 PM   #34
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior View Post
Ok........ it's like this I hope I DON'T OFFEND ANYBODY WITH THIS POST

I think JC is unsure and holds the ball longer because he has a slave mentality before you go postal and everything let me explain.

Joe Gibbs played soft and didn't take many chances was a strong believer in the power run game didn't take the handcuffs off JC or the offense as a whole IMO. Now true enough JC has had plenty of coordinators no doubt and that played a vital part in his success. But he was still under Gibbs for three years the safe, conservative play mentality was still there even though the coordinator changed. Now you have a totally different coach, different mentality, more of a killer instinct then Gibbs in Zorn. Taking the cuffs off JC and do away with the conservative play. Zorn wants JC to trust his arm and his receivers well those three years under Gibbs plays a big factor. You can't expect JC within 6 or 7 months to get out of that mindset it takes time and Zorn know that. If you notice he didn't turnover the ball over and he is unsure about things. I rather have a conservative don't want to make a mistake QB then a Rex Grossman reckless throw 3 ints two for tds in one game QB. Time will tell but we have to be patient.
A slave mentality??? Was this the best choice of words when describing an African American's mentality. Geez.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:18 PM   #35
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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A slave mentality??? Was this the best choice of words when describing an African American's mentality. Geez.
Not at all the best choice of words, an unfortunate beginning to an otherwise solid post.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:23 PM   #36
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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A slave mentality??? Was this the best choice of words when describing an African American's mentality. Geez.
I'm an African Amercian I guess that's why it was so easy to use that analogy. But that is why I warned everybody in all caps and bold letter before reading but I still apologize to all that were still offended.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:45 PM   #37
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

Great post...well thought out / analyzed and helps put some of the offensive woes in perspective.

A couple of thoughts (coming from a critical perspective because I believe we should focus on fixing the broken parts) I had in watching the game:

1) Cooley looked horrible in run blocking. Either he should be removed from that role or the Giants DEs were cheating in their run pursuit and we should have run a reverse or bootleg. (I don't want to make JC into Michael Vick, but he is very athletic and, if given space, could safely be a playmaker).

2) JC looked like he has regressed. I trust Zorn will mold him into a consistent winner, but will need 1 - 2 years. My hope is he become a little more of a "gun-slinger". The sideline pass to Thrash will be completed more often than not...and when going for it on 4th down you cannot throw to your check-down unless he has a ton of room in front of him. He needs to take a few more chances (when the situation dictates).

3) Our secondary misses ST badly. We don't have enough size to compete with bigger receivers. I would like to see us bracket these guys so they can't just run beyond the sticks, turn around and get an uncontested first down.

In all, I think we can win with our D and need the O to execute with fewer mental lapses.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:47 PM   #38
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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I understood it as him being a slave to offensive systems (Saunders now Zorn) and not being able to think for himself.
No, JC not trusting the Zorn's risk that Zorn's system requires yet but still stuck in Gibbs conservative play. The not being able to think for himself is just more negativity from you.
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First they ban winning...now this?
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:57 PM   #39
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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No, JC not trusting the Zorn's risk that Zorn's system requires yet but still stuck in Gibbs conservative play. The not being able to think for himself is just more negativity from you.

No worries just been living in the DC- B-more area long enough to know using "slave" any context will raise some eye brows around here.

I understand where you coming from now.
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Old 09-08-2008, 04:17 PM   #40
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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Ö.thanks for using my post as just another excuse to attack my opinion. I was trying to stand up for you and say you weren't using those words in a negative way against AAs. I'm quite sick of the lack of respect around here...
they knew what I meant
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Old 09-08-2008, 04:26 PM   #41
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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.. of course they did. Whatever.
Did you not see that big bold all caps phrase before my post started. That alone clarified the fact that it wasn't a racist statement. Plus I'm African American. I wasn't trying to disrespect you but "not being able to think for himself" sounded like one of your slick disses on JC.
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Old 09-08-2008, 04:44 PM   #42
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

I gotta side with hess on this one. I don't think she meant any harm in what she said, she just had a poor choice of words.
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Old 09-08-2008, 04:52 PM   #43
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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Yeah, I saw it.. I wasn't the one questioning your statement!... what I read after your post was mdredskin asking why you used the word slave while talking about an African American.... I responded to his post, not yours. I tried to defend you, but why bother..
I apologize hesscl34 I misunderstood the post
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:46 PM   #44
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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Are you talking about actual passes, or pass plays? Are you factoring in false starts, sacks, etc. where no pass is actually thrown? Also, did you notice WRs "giving up" on the play as Moss implied he did on one play where it didn't develop as quickly as planned and Moss figured JC must have been sacked?
The 19 passes were only passes thrown...that number becomes 20 if you include the one sack and 21 if you count the pass to Cooley that was called back by illegal man downfield.

And my choice of the word masterfully probably shows a bias I have to make the best out of the situation, but whether it was intentional or not, it's hard to chew up the clock and score any better than we did in the first half.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:55 PM   #45
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Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review

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I often call out JC and Rogers because they suck more often than they donít suck, and the frustration level is overwhelming with them.
Some starters who suck more often than JC and Carlos Rogers:

Santana Moss
Antwaan Randle El
Mike Sellers
Casey Rabach
Rocky McIntosh
Reed Doughty
Fred Smoot

And there are others that are debatable, but the point is that people don't spend a whole lot of time and effort clammering for the replacement of said players. Part of that because a handful of them (Doughty, McIntosh) are young and might improve (like JC and Rogers), but mostly it's because even the people who think that the fan base overrates those seven players realize that they are in most cases the best option we have at their respective positions, and that as fans of the Redskins, we might as well get behind them and hope for their success.

It's somewhat sad that you don't share this mindset with two young players that are critical to the long term success of the franchise, but I guess it's your opinion that we should cut bait with them now and start rebuilding.
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