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Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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Old 09-19-2008, 10:34 AM   #46
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
The way people talk about Reed Doughty and how "bad" he has played, it makes me think that the expectations of him are that of a superstar, when I have always said that Doughty is an average player. Doughty should lose his job either because his performance drops and/or because Horton outperforms hims after a number of games. Doughty should not lose his job b/c he caught a f'ing stomach virus. Rookies are going to perform well in one game, and as Blache would say it can break your heart the next. I don't think the team is going to risk that with the type of passing game that we're going to face this Sunday.

That being said, I tried to find some way to measure RD's performance, and all I could find was # of tackles (since there are some claims that he can't tackle). In seven games (from Wk 13 of last season to this season's Wk 1 game against the Giants) here are RDs tackle stats:

Total Tkls: 45; Total Solo Tkls: 29; Total Ast Tkls: 16; Pass Def: 2
Avg Tkls/Game: 6.4; Avg Solo Tkls/Game: 29
Best Performance (Wk 15 vs. NYG): 11 Tkls, 7 Solo, 1 Pass Def
Worst Performance (Wk 16 @ MIN): 2 Tkls, 1 Solo, 0 Pass Def
Last Performance: 6 Tkls, 4 Solo, 0 Pass Def

Based on just number of tackles, RD's numbers are higher than other Free Safeties in the division . His two pass defended were comparable to other safeties in the division, save for Hamlin of the Cowpokes who had a significant higher number of PDs.

No one is taking away from Horton's performance and potential. We are lucky to have such a good young player. However, stop making arguments that Horton should start after just one game. He needs to develop this season, and could be a starter at the end of the season. But just don't call for a change in roster just b/c of a stomach virus.
Dude I don't give a damn about freakin stats. He has done Nothing to deserve to start PERIOD. Doughty's playing SS not FS so these stats wouldn't be as high if he play SS. Horton made more plays in 1 game then Doughty (according to your stats) made last season. Teams don't Fear Doughty and he's worse in the pass than Horton is. He's slow, he can't hit, can't cover and does'nt make plays BUT that is what you get in Reed Doughty. Its called tough luck when you have a stomach vrus and someone does beter than you in 1 game then RD has done in his NFL career. So Yes Horton deserves to start against the Cards.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:16 PM   #47
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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Dude I don't give a damn about freakin stats. He has done Nothing to deserve to start PERIOD. Doughty's playing SS not FS so these stats wouldn't be as high if he play SS. Horton made more plays in 1 game then Doughty (according to your stats) made last season. Teams don't Fear Doughty and he's worse in the pass than Horton is. He's slow, he can't hit, can't cover and does'nt make plays BUT that is what you get in Reed Doughty. Its called tough luck when you have a stomach vrus and someone does beter than you in 1 game then RD has done in his NFL career. So Yes Horton deserves to start against the Cards.
Because of 1 game? Even if he doesn't know his responsiblities as well as RD? Zorn said it himself, RD knows the D well enough to help get people lined up correctly and makes the right coverage calls in the secondary. I am not comfortable right now leaving all of that on a rookie. Lets give him some more time. Maybe he starts by the end of the season but he just hasn't earned it yet. The coaching staff was strongly considering mixing up the whole scheme because they were not sure of CH. They talked about Springs moving back and even switching LL. They decided to leave everybody in their original spot and give Horton help. We don't know how much help he was given either. It may be possible that he was lining up wrong on a few plays? They obviously feel more confident in RD and I agree, at least right now.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:29 PM   #48
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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Dude I don't give a damn about freakin stats. He has done Nothing to deserve to start PERIOD. Doughty's playing SS not FS so these stats wouldn't be as high if he play SS. Horton made more plays in 1 game then Doughty (according to your stats) made last season. Teams don't Fear Doughty and he's worse in the pass than Horton is. He's slow, he can't hit, can't cover and does'nt make plays BUT that is what you get in Reed Doughty. Its called tough luck when you have a stomach vrus and someone does beter than you in 1 game then RD has done in his NFL career. So Yes Horton deserves to start against the Cards.
Well so much for this being the site for the knowledgeable fan. Well allow me to make a somewhat intelligent rebuttal (sp?):

Doughty is listed as a FS in the ESPN website, so I went by that.

You say that Doughty is worse than Horton in the pass coverage, so you are implying that Horton is not good in pass coverage and yet you want him to start? I was curious to find out in the past couple of games how much have teams throw in the direction of Doughty (but then I remember that you don't give a damn about stats). So if Doughty is not good in pass coverage (according to you) and Horton isn't, then why start Horton?

Doughty came and replaced Sean Taylor last year, so yeah teams are not going to fear Doughty if you compare him to ST. Now do you think that Horton will strike fear in other teams? I mean did you see how much Santana Moss burned the Saints' rookie CB? Don't forget that Horton's INTs were tipped passes, which speaks to his ability of catching the ball and being alert, but it is not like he made a play.

Well luckily neither you nor I are NFL coaches or the defensive coordinator for the Redskins. There's more than just having a good performance in a game, and that is being consistent in your play, having experience, and knowing the system.

I am glad we have quality depth at the safety position, and a player like Horton is a great asset to have in the defense. He will see lots of playing time, and will be a starter in the future. I just hate when people are willing to throw players in the team that we root for under the bus for stupid reasons.
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Last edited by Ruhskins; 09-19-2008 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 09-19-2008, 03:40 PM   #49
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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Well so much for this being the site for the knowledgeable fan. Well allow me to make a somewhat intelligent rebuttal (sp?):

Doughty is listed as a FS in the ESPN website, so I went by that.

You say that Doughty is worse than Horton in the pass coverage, so you are implying that Horton is not good in pass coverage and yet you want him to start? I was curious to find out in the past couple of games how much have teams throw in the direction of Doughty (but then I remember that you don't give a damn about stats). So if Doughty is not good in pass coverage (according to you) and Horton isn't, then why start Horton?

Doughty came and replaced Sean Taylor last year, so yeah teams are not going to fear Doughty if you compare him to ST. Now do you think that Horton will strike fear in other teams? I mean did you see how much Santana Moss burned the Saints' rookie CB? Don't forget that Horton's INTs were tipped passes, which speaks to his ability of catching the ball and being alert, but it is not like he made a play.

Well luckily neither you nor I are NFL coaches or the defensive coordinator for the Redskins. There's more than just having a good performance in a game, and that is being consistent in your play, having experience, and knowing the system.

I am glad we have quality depth at the safety position, and a player like Horton is a great asset to have in the defense. He will see lots of playing time, and will be a starter in the future. I just hate when people are willing to throw players in the team that we root for under the bus for stupid reasons.
I'm sorry, but I can't stand when people say that Reed Doughty replaced Sean Taylor last year. Doughty didn't replace Taylor, LaRon Landry replaced Taylor by moving to the FS position. Essentially Doughty replaced Landry at SS.
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Old 09-19-2008, 03:48 PM   #50
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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I'm sorry, but I can't stand when people say that Reed Doughty replaced Sean Taylor last year. Doughty didn't replace Taylor, LaRon Landry replaced Taylor by moving to the FS position. Essentially Doughty replaced Landry at SS.
You are correct and my apologies for incorrectly stating that Doughty replaced Taylor. However, the point that I was making still applies...of course you can say that Doughty is not going to strike fear in any team, because Doughty is not a superstart player like Landry.
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:42 PM   #51
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

Doughty or Horton-Horton or Doughty. We're sitting pretty good at strong safety huh?
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:21 PM   #52
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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Because of 1 game? Even if he doesn't know his responsiblities as well as RD? Zorn said it himself, RD knows the D well enough to help get people lined up correctly and makes the right coverage calls in the secondary. I am not comfortable right now leaving all of that on a rookie. Lets give him some more time. Maybe he starts by the end of the season but he just hasn't earned it yet. The coaching staff was strongly considering mixing up the whole scheme because they were not sure of CH. They talked about Springs moving back and even switching LL. They decided to leave everybody in their original spot and give Horton help. We don't know how much help he was given either. It may be possible that he was lining up wrong on a few plays? They obviously feel more confident in RD and I agree, at least right now.
Agreed.

(sorry I haven't had a chance to write you back. I will soon, hope you're doing well)
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:36 PM   #53
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

I guess for the same reasons we drafted other positions ...depth. If Doughty is below average, I guess Greg Blanche is just an idiot for keeping him on the team, right? I don't believe that for a minute. They will both play alot during games and if Doughty does'nt cut it I guess he'll hit the bench. What's the big deal? There's been an awful lot of talk about this after one game. Remember Timmy Smith rushing for over 200 yards in the Super Bowl? One game. What happened after that? The cream always rises to the top. It will in this case to but you have to give it more than one game. I don't think they want to mess up Hortons head by throwing him into something he might not be prepared to handle just yet. He talked about how nervous he was when he found out he was going to start. You don't want him to lose confidence so you bring him in a little at a time. Is'nt there some unwritten rule that a player should'nt lose his job because of injury? It will play out.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:15 PM   #54
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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I urge anyone who is making the argument that doughty is a very good player to watch game film from last year. It speaks for itself. People that try to defend this below average player make statements like "he replaced Sean Taylor" or "strong safeties don't have to cover". This is rediculous. Homers never want to admit that they have a bad player on thier team...why do you people think we drafted two safties and brought in other FA's?
I think a lot of us are saying to give Doughty the chance to lose his job. I personally don't think Doughty is a great player, all I'm saying that the people that criticize him talk like he should be a GREAT player. I mean it's not like the team is paying him millions like Archuleta. So he's an average player, so f'ing what? Let him play, let Horton develop and take the job later in the season.

The way people talk make it sound like he's the f'ing demise of the team, which is absolutely ridiculous. When the Redskins lost to Jacksonville, people acted like Doughty was the only horrible thing that happened that day. I mean WTF did Doughty do to the fan base? Did he kick Jim Zorn in the nuts or something? People speak of him worst than they speak of Chad Johnson, T.O., and Randy Moss (when he was bad) combined. Maybe Reed should blow out his knee and be done for the season so all these haters can calm down and stop bashing the hell out of Doughty.
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Last edited by Ruhskins; 09-19-2008 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:34 PM   #55
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

We think alot alike Ruhskins. Good post.
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Old 09-20-2008, 01:19 PM   #56
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

Whatever. You sound a little stressed. Yeah, they're going to play both. So what's your point? They played with what they had last year and they're playing with what they have this year whether you're calling for his ass or not. And if you want to get picky, it's which, not wich. Chill out man we're 1-1. BLACHE IS getting him on the field, so I really don't know what your gripe is.
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:38 PM   #57
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

Sounds good brother.
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:11 AM   #58
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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It's all good. The only point I was trying to make is that people need to be held accountable.. I loved the fact that Zorn had the balls to bench Jon Jansen- he wasn't doing his job. It's great that we have a proactive head coach now. I don't support the president just because he is the president of the united states. Much like I don't show love for a certain player just because he puts on a redskins jersey. We will agree to disagree and put this one to bed.
Well like I said before let's see if Doughty blows out his knee or let's see if can singlehandedly lose the team a game (b/c he can do that apparently) to make you people happy.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:45 AM   #59
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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Well like I said before let's see if Doughty blows out his knee or let's see if can singlehandedly lose the team a game (b/c he can do that apparently) to make you people happy.
He didn't look that good today...
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:01 AM   #60
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Re: Horton Wins NFC Defensive Player of the Week

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He didn't look that good today...
I think Doughty will be overtaken by Horton, my whole barrage of threads were just about that it should not happen after just one game. Doughty had a big mistake (getting burned by Fitz) that overshadowed the rest of his play (8 tkls, .5 forced fumble). I did see Horton in several plays during the game, which I think its great since it will allow him to learn the defense even more.
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