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Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Old 09-26-2008, 02:04 PM   #16
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Originally Posted by Buster View Post
Witten has a seperated shoulder from Week 2. He hasn't scored yet this year.

In his career of games against the Skins:

2007 - 2/24yds/0 TD , 8/67/0
2006 - 5/50/0 , 4/45/0
2005 - 4/41/1, 4/35/0
2004 - 6/50/0, 3/22/1
2003 - 0/0/0, 0/0/0

TOTAL - 10 games, 36 catches/334 yds (33.4 avg), 2 TDs
Career total : 82 games, 21 TDs


Cooley vs. Dallas: 8 games, 30 catches/357 yds (44.6 avg), 5 TDs
Career total : 67 games, 27 TDs

Cooley is much more versatile too.

Hey don't use actual number to prove your point.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:28 PM   #17
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

Cooley and Witten are both great TEs and probably a toss up on who is better overall which makes the homer factor come in and you pick the guy on your team. Gates is probably the best offensive threat of all of them.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:39 PM   #18
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster View Post
Witten has a seperated shoulder from Week 2. He hasn't scored yet this year.

In his career of games against the Skins:

2007 - 2/24yds/0 TD , 8/67/0
2006 - 5/50/0 , 4/45/0
2005 - 4/41/1, 4/35/0
2004 - 6/50/0, 3/22/1
2003 - 0/0/0, 0/0/0

TOTAL - 10 games, 36 catches/334 yds (33.4 avg), 2 TDs
Career total : 82 games, 21 TDs


Cooley vs. Dallas: 8 games, 30 catches/357 yds (44.6 avg), 5 TDs
Career total : 67 games, 27 TDs

Cooley is much more versatile too.
You didn't finish. You stated that Witten had a seperated shoulder in Week 2. But what you withheld was that he only missed 2 plays and went right back on the field and went on to catch 7 passes for 110 yards WITH a seperated shoulder.

Not taking anything away from Cooley, he is one of the top-flight TE's in the NFL and I respect him tremendously.

That being said, the TD's only server a piece of the puzzle here. No, Witten has not scored a TD in 2008. BUT.....the Dallas Cowboys lead the NFL in 3rd down conversions at 60%, that is in large part to Wittens recieving skills, he is a "chain mover".

Witten is currently the #1 ranked TE in the NFL in receptions, yards, yards per game, receptions over 20 yards, receptions over 40 yards and first downs attained.

Then look at how well the Cowboys rushing attack has been, ranked #6 in the league. Witten is a great blocker and if you take another look at that 60 yard TD run by Felix Jones in the Green Bay game, you will see that the key trap block on the perimeter was made by Witten.

Don't put all the TE's eggs in one basket (TD's) there is more there to look at.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:44 PM   #19
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Originally Posted by Jake2008 View Post
Cooley and Witten are both great TEs and probably a toss up on who is better overall which makes the homer factor come in and you pick the guy on your team. Gates is probably the best offensive threat of all of them.
I would agree
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:48 PM   #20
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Cooley and Witten are both great TEs and probably a toss up on who is better overall which makes the homer factor come in and you pick the guy on your team.
So take out the "homer factor" and take that query to fans of any of the other 30 teams in the NFL, and ask them if they had a choice, which TE would they rather have, Witten or Cooley. I am confident an overwhelming majority would pick Witten.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:51 PM   #21
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

In one of the best Skins/Boyz games you'll ever see back in 2006, Jason Witten made a crucial mistake.

On the blocked Vandjagt (sp?) kick to win the game, Troy Vincent explained after the game that while Jason Witten was busy talking s***, the ball was hiked, and he sped past the ProBowl TE and got a hand on the kick, ST picked it up, and one facemask later, the skins went on to victory in the "Hand of God" game.

So every time I hear Jason Wittens name i think of that game.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:01 PM   #22
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Originally Posted by sandtrapjack View Post
You didn't finish. You stated that Witten had a seperated shoulder in Week 2. But what you withheld was that he only missed 2 plays and went right back on the field and went on to catch 7 passes for 110 yards WITH a seperated shoulder.

Not taking anything away from Cooley, he is one of the top-flight TE's in the NFL and I respect him tremendously.

That being said, the TD's only server a piece of the puzzle here. No, Witten has not scored a TD in 2008. BUT.....the Dallas Cowboys lead the NFL in 3rd down conversions at 60%, that is in large part to Wittens recieving skills, he is a "chain mover".

Witten is currently the #1 ranked TE in the NFL in receptions, yards, yards per game, receptions over 20 yards, receptions over 40 yards and first downs attained.

Then look at how well the Cowboys rushing attack has been, ranked #6 in the league. Witten is a great blocker and if you take another look at that 60 yard TD run by Felix Jones in the Green Bay game, you will see that the key trap block on the perimeter was made by Witten.

Don't put all the TE's eggs in one basket (TD's) there is more there to look at.
Well 36 receivers have more receptions then TO, 17 have more yards, 15 have more 40+ yard receptions so at best TO is the 15th best receiver in the game according to your 'stats' ranking.

Witten has the big advantage of playing on a team with a great OL. That is huge and allows him to get freed up and open and not have to worry about trying to block defensive lineman. He also has been in pretty much the same offensive system which Cooley has not had that luxury.

IMO you can't say one is better then the other. I am sure if you swapped teams their stats would change accordingly. And I would still consider Gates to be close if not better then both.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:07 PM   #23
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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So take out the "homer factor" and take that query to fans of any of the other 30 teams in the NFL, and ask them if they had a choice, which TE would they rather have, Witten or Cooley. I am confident an overwhelming majority would pick Witten.
I agree with you here, but I would argue the reason is because most fans are alot more familiar with Witten because he plays for the Cowboys who get alot more TV coverage nationwide. Does that make Witten better?

If Cooley was a Cowboy and Witten a Skin, it would be interesting to see what your opinion would be then. Like I have said before, I think both are good and any team would like to have either and would consider them better because they are on their team.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:24 PM   #24
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Well 36 receivers have more receptions then TO, 17 have more yards, 15 have more 40+ yard receptions so at best TO is the 15th best receiver in the game according to your 'stats' ranking.

Witten has the big advantage of playing on a team with a great OL. That is huge and allows him to get freed up and open and not have to worry about trying to block defensive lineman. He also has been in pretty much the same offensive system which Cooley has not had that luxury.

IMO you can't say one is better then the other. I am sure if you swapped teams their stats would change accordingly. And I would still consider Gates to be close if not better then both.
Well I attempted to point out in a earlier post about not reading too much into the TD's, I did kind of bury myself in the stats thing, so you got me there.

But like I said earlier, look at the WHOLE picture. Why do you think Witten has all those receptions? Why do you think Miles Austin (a #3 WR) had over 100 yards and a TD last week? Because of the coverages that Owens demands. It takes away 2 and sometimes 3 players in coverage on Owens. And that coverage creates opportunities for others to excel. I have said it a thousand times....Owens does not have to have 100 yards and 2 TD's to be a factor.

But even Greg Blache has considerable respect for Witten. This is from the Washington Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Washington Post
There are matchup problems all over the place. Blache agreed that the Redskins don't have a defender who can just concentrate on tight end Jason Witten all day. They don't have a single defensive back or linebacker who can "lock up" on him. The team has to mix principles and schemes, and Rocky McIntosh and Chris Horton have to combine their efforts.
Likewise, in the running game, it's going to take numbers to stop the tandem of Marion Barber and Felix Jones. One will run defenders over like few others in the game ("If he wasn't a Cowboy, I'd really like him," Blache said of Barber), and the other will just burn right past ("Jones has blazing speed," Blache said).
washingtonpost.com
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:43 PM   #25
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

They're both very good TE's. Let's just leave it at that. The intent of this thread was simply to show that when the Skins and Cowboys play each other, Cooley has outperformed Witten.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:44 PM   #26
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
They're both very good TE's. Let's just leave it at that. The intent of this thread was simply to show that when the Skins and Cowboys play each other, Cooley has outperformed Witten.
Agreed
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:27 PM   #27
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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We don't even use Cooley that well.
as much as i am hating the thought but id put witten over cooley only because of this comment alone.

if we used cooley more he'd edge witten out but he goes halfs and sometimes games with only one or two balls thrown his way. it looked like zorn made a concentrated effort to target cooley in the second half of the cards game and it paid dividends as cooley made some clutch 1st down catches. hopefully we will see more of this.

both are great at finding the open space underneath in zone coverage or giving matchup problems 1 on 1. havent really studied wittens blocking but cooley has left something to be desired in that department this year.

lol after reading the title i had the imagine of witten and cooley going both ways and D'ing up on each other. now that would be awesome, if only the coaches could agree to something like that.

go skins!!
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:33 PM   #28
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Originally Posted by redsk1 View Post
In one of the best Skins/Boyz games you'll ever see back in 2006, Jason Witten made a crucial mistake.

On the blocked Vandjagt (sp?) kick to win the game, Troy Vincent explained after the game that while Jason Witten was busy talking s***, the ball was hiked, and he sped past the ProBowl TE and got a hand on the kick, ST picked it up, and one facemask later, the skins went on to victory in the "Hand of God" game.

So every time I hear Jason Wittens name i think of that game.
hot damn how did i not hear about this till right now??? man that was a sweet ending to a game!!

go skins!
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:44 PM   #29
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Well I attempted to point out in a earlier post about not reading too much into the TD's, I did kind of bury myself in the stats thing, so you got me there.

But like I said earlier, look at the WHOLE picture. Why do you think Witten has all those receptions? Why do you think Miles Austin (a #3 WR) had over 100 yards and a TD last week? Because of the coverages that Owens demands. It takes away 2 and sometimes 3 players in coverage on Owens. And that coverage creates opportunities for others to excel. I have said it a thousand times....Owens does not have to have 100 yards and 2 TD's to be a factor.

But even Greg Blache has considerable respect for Witten. This is from the Washington Post:



washingtonpost.com
Are you now saying that TO makes Witten look even better because he demands 2 or 3 guys to cover him leaving Witten more holes to catch in. Your making Cooley look better with each of your post.
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:54 PM   #30
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Re: Dallas Week Matchup: Cooley vs. Witten

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Are you now saying that TO makes Witten look even better because he demands 2 or 3 guys to cover him leaving Witten more holes to catch in. Your making Cooley look better with each of your post.
Read whatever you want into it. I'll just take the production.
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