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A Very Troubling Statistic

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Old 11-04-2008, 03:01 PM   #16
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

6-3 is what it is, a good record. Nobody said anything about those wins being dominating, since when does a win have to be dominant to count? I love the logic of we could easily be 3-6, well if you look at any team in the league you could easily apply that logic. Fact is we're not 3-6. Good teams win games period, it doesn't matter how pretty or ugly they are.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:05 PM   #17
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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Well Pitt tried the onside kick and we had the turnover, both great field position and we did nothing but 3 and out. Good teams capitalize on those kind of mistakes.

Everyone keeps saying we are 6-3 like we dominated those 6 games. We could very easily be 3-6. We haven't dominated anyone and if we are a good team we should have dominated at least one of the previous 3 teams before the Steelers.

I know some believe our Oline and Dline are fine and have a couple of years left in them, but I don't agree and think we needed to address these this past offseason and we didn't and are paying for it now. Campbell is getting too much pressure and we are becoming a team that teams are going to stack the line to stop Portis and all we do is dump the short passes that gain us a yard or 2. We aren't stretching the field at all anymore. Campbell needs to start throwing the ball deep and letting his receivers make the plays.
I've been saying for years on this forum that the best way to build a team is from the inside out. Look at most of the best teams in the NFL, and they are strong on both the O and D lines. Tennessee has become dominant on both lines, which explains how they keep winning with Kerry Collins essentially playing caretaker (don't mess up) at QB. The last time that we drafted a lineman in either rounds 1 or 2 was Chris Samuels in 2000. Aside from adding a CB, I want to see significant attention devoted to both lines in the next draft. If Vinny drafts another pass catching TE just because he's the best player on his board, I think that I'll snap.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:08 PM   #18
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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Reche Caldwell is a St. Louis Ram, for those wondering
Sorry..the other is Keenan McCardell. He's old but i bet he can still get open occasionally. Which is better than Kelly can do at the moment.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:22 PM   #19
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

Why is everyone harping on Campbell?
Coverage was great downfield, Moss was hampered by his injury, the oline pass blocking was poor.

Campbell is AWESOME when we win, and its ALL HIS FAULT when we lose.
Face it, we were dominated.

I lay this TREND at the hands of the offensive coordinator, ZORN.
I am not suprized, he said it himself.
Defenses will catch up to what his is doing, this happened about 4 games ago, when we started struggling with teams like the rams, lions, browns....c'mon man...
Our defense is solid, the issue is the offense.

Bottom line is, Zorn did not adjust, pregame or halftime, to account for the Pitt defense PLUS he abandoned the run.

I mentioned it in the predictions thread.
The only way to win this was with Shotgun, draws, reverses, screens, misdirection, runs up the gut....that is how you slow down a fiery defense.
My only question was how Moss and Samuels would hold up.
Unfortunately, Zorn did almost none of this....I only remember one or two screens and a couple draws. This is why I gave Zorn a 3.5 of 5....he is not tested yet, he has not stayed ahead of the curve, Defensive coordinators have figured out how to play this offense.....we are still 2nd in the league in rushing yet only 25 in Points.

I say it is time to add some new plays and players to the mix....we haven't seen any production from our top 3 picks....time to MAN UP. and C'mon Zorn, call a play thats not on film yet.

And I also throw Special Teams in here, they have generally stunk...except kicker.
Did you see that Pittsburg Gunner on the punts? He was beating 2 blockers every time causing randle el to fair catch everything....and if there was no punt blocked, we'd easily be in the game...this is easily Danny Smiths crappiest coaching year here, he aint helping...thank goodness we recovered that onside kick, I am suprised that we did based on who was on the field to attempt the recovery...lucky.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:28 PM   #20
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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...
And I also throw Special Teams in here, they have generally stunk...except kicker.
Our punt team has now given up 2 TDs on punt returns, plus the huge blocked punt last night. If I'm Zorn, I'm taking a hard look at Danny Smith's coaching of that unit.

Suisham has been a bright spot. Both of those FGs last night would have been right down the middle from 50.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:32 PM   #21
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

on to the bye week and then i worry about dallas week there after.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:34 PM   #22
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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6-3 is what it is, a good record. Nobody said anything about those wins being dominating, since when does a win have to be dominant to count? I love the logic of we could easily be 3-6, well if you look at any team in the league you could easily apply that logic. Fact is we're not 3-6. Good teams win games period, it doesn't matter how pretty or ugly they are.
Sorry that you don't agree with the logic, but doesn't mean it is invalid because you don't happen to agree. You just have a different opinion so sorry if I am not allowed to express mine. I never said it has to be dominant to count, but I do believe good teams will dominate bad teams. We have won by margins of 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 points. Those games could have gone either way. Take the Giants, they have won by margins of 3, 7, 9, 12, 21, 28 and 38. I would say 4 of those are pretty dominant and they didn't have much to worry about.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:41 PM   #23
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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Sorry that you don't agree with the logic, but doesn't mean it is invalid because you don't happen to agree. You just have a different opinion so sorry if I am not allowed to express mine. I never said it has to be dominant to count, but I do believe good teams will dominate bad teams. We have won by margins of 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 points. Those games could have gone either way. Take the Giants, they have won by margins of 3, 7, 9, 12, 21, 28 and 38. I would say 4 of those are pretty dominant and they didn't have much to worry about.
I didn't say anything about you not being allowed to have an opinion. I simply disagreed and stated my thoughts. Welcome to message board 101.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:41 PM   #24
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

it is what it is and a win is a win in this league no matter who we play..

i,ll gladly take 6-3 also.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:58 PM   #25
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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I will volunteer two personnel moves - I don't see what Yoder gives the offense that Fred Davis wouldn't give and then some. I also would like to see Heyer starting at RT to help stabilize the pass protection.
I agree with both of these moves. I also think the o-line deserves some attention in the draft. I've said before that I'm kind of old school in that I think a lot of games are won in the trenches. Without the Hogs we would'nt have 3 Super Bowl Trophies. We need to seriously address this during the draft. I personally feel like a big part of the problem is our reluctence to go downfield. The opponents defense needs to understand that you will not hesitate to go deep to keep them honest. Even if we don't complete the pass, we send a message. One of the Steelers biggest plays came on an incompletion. We got interference and they got 45 yards. If I don't respect your deep game and you've got the leading rusher in the NFL, I know what I'm doing, I'm sitting on the line all day long.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:16 PM   #26
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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I agree with both of these moves. I also think the o-line deserves some attention in the draft. I've said before that I'm kind of old school in that I think a lot of games are won in the trenches. Without the Hogs we would'nt have 3 Super Bowl Trophies. We need to seriously address this during the draft. I personally feel like a big part of the problem is our reluctence to go downfield. The opponents defense needs to understand that you will not hesitate to go deep to keep them honest. Even if we don't complete the pass, we send a message. One of the Steelers biggest plays came on an imcompletion. We got interference and they got 45 yards. If I don't respect your deep game and you've got the leading rusher in the NFL, I know what I'm doing, I'm sitting on the line all day long.
I agree. I would love to see Campbell throw deep more and let his receivers make the play. You can't always wait for the receiver to be wide open and have to trust that they will make the play. Especially on 3rd and whatever. I hate seeing the 5 yard pass hoping the receiver will make it to the down marker only to get stopped short. Let it rip once in awhile and keep them honest. Campbell has the arm to do it.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:22 PM   #27
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

People longing for the deep ball have obviously missed the hiring of Jim Zorn, a west coast disciple. Moss with a bad hammy didn't help matters last night either, along with the constant pressure.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:28 PM   #28
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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Sorry that you don't agree with the logic, but doesn't mean it is invalid because you don't happen to agree. You just have a different opinion so sorry if I am not allowed to express mine. I never said it has to be dominant to count, but I do believe good teams will dominate bad teams. We have won by margins of 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 points. Those games could have gone either way. Take the Giants, they have won by margins of 3, 7, 9, 12, 21, 28 and 38. I would say 4 of those are pretty dominant and they didn't have much to worry about.

I think this is a valid point . . .

Yes we're 6-3 and that is a good record (and a completely unexpected record) at this point in the season, and no amount of speculation can change that.

But if as fans we can consider things like the difficulty of our schedule when trying to evaluate the strength of our team, certainly margin of victory can come into consideration.

These feelings of inadequacy on the part of the fans is also somewhat valid. We came into this game under the pretense that this would be a statement game, one that decided whether or not the struggles of this team against clearly inferior teams the past few weeks was simply them playing down, or cause for legitimate concern. Pitt was the first very good team we have faced from outside of our division, and to have been beaten so convincingly is a huge letdown.

So yeah I'm glad we're 6-3, and I'm fairly confident that we'll make the playoffs, but after losing to Pitt we cannot start thinking of our team as elite. Furthermore, this game has exposed a huge weakness in our Offense, with alot of pressure and no Moss we're managable. Now Pitt has the best defense in the NFL, so No, I doubt many other teams will hold us to only six points, even under similar conditions, but we should certainly have some concerns about our Offense. And that may be accurately reflected in our slim margin of victory in our 6 wins.
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:29 PM   #29
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

We're winning VERY narrowly. Sure, a W is a W, we should be happy with 6-3, blah biddy blah blah. The point is, anyone who isn't concerned is blind. We just got exposed in the worst way. Like caught with your pants down with shrinkage kind of exposed.

We have glaring weaknesses in the most important of areas- pressuring the QB, forcing turnovers, pass protection (for our the franchise QB we FINALLY have after years and years), and SCORING. Sound defense and a good running game have helped mask these deficiencies somewhat.

We have the 25th ranked scoring offense. That's just bad. Someone on another thread mentioned how we're in the top 10 in total offense and defense (10th and 4th respectively). The NFL's "total" stat is garbage. It's yardage based. Points win games, not yards. I don't care how many pretty yards we gain. When they turn into punts and field goal attempts, we're not gonna win much, especially when up against tough defenses.

We've got a long way to go if we hope to win any playoff games, or even make the postseason for that matter.

I know people think I'm a debbie downer around here. That's fine. If I'm saying anything that's wrong, by all means, tell me.

I'm thrilled to be 6-3. I love JC's development, the defense's stoutness, Portis' MVP caliber 1st half of the season, the job Zorn is doing... But I want to keep improving, so I call it like I see it.
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:33 PM   #30
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Re: A Very Troubling Statistic

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People longing for the deep ball have obviously missed the hiring of Jim Zorn, a west coast disciple. Moss with a bad hammy didn't help matters last night either, along with the constant pressure.
I understand it's WC but even WC goes long once in awhile. This isn't exactly the strict definition of WC we've been playing anyway. Moss had a couple of fairly long balls in the second half of the Detroit game. That certainly helped us win the game. I understand he's hurt. But what exactly do we have DT out there for anyway? I'm not sure we have anything to lose by going deep to him once in awhile compared to what we may gain.
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