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McIntosh & Landry

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Old 11-06-2008, 07:21 PM   #31
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

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Originally Posted by JLW428 View Post
Looking though these posts, I'm glad that everyone besides about 3 people understand how the FS position is played.
Ain't that the truth! I was reading some of this BS and nearly didn't post, but I thought what the hell.

The FS is the last line of defence. That means he has to cover the deepest threat or backup a CB or cover a designated receiver depending on his responsibility for that play. As some have correctly posted, we haven't had many deep passes against us this year - because he's such a threat. If you look at the Washington catch against Smoot, Landry had man coverage responsibility because of the blitz, hence Smoot was isolated. If you watch that play again you can see how close we got to taking down Leftwich and that's the blitz in a nutshell - when it works you hit them for a big loss, but when it doesn't you run a big risk of a deep ball being completed or a short pass being broken (because you don't have deep coverage).

Landry has roamed sideline to sideline repeatedly this season and provided support to the corners while Horton primarily played run support. How many times have you seen the opposition going underneath or sticking to out patterns to avoid the middle of the field? Answer is a lot of the time. Blache is so confident of Landry, he repeatedly puts 8 in the box and that's why we are so good against the run.

Believe me if we had the Steelers or Titans Dline, we'd be the top ranked D. We have been exposed because QB's get too much time to pass on us. And if we could contain the run with just the front 7 then we'd have a lot more INT's. You think the Titans have a better secondary than us? I'll take Landry and Horton over their two safeties any day, and I'd still pick Carlos over most other CB's in the league based on his overall play this season.

We have one problem on this defence and its called the Dline. If we could fix that right now, this thread wouldn't be here.
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:23 PM   #32
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

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Originally Posted by AnonEmouse View Post
Ain't that the truth! I was reading some of this BS and nearly didn't post, but I thought what the hell.

The FS is the last line of defence. That means he has to cover the deepest threat or backup a CB or cover a designated receiver depending on his responsibility for that play. As some have correctly posted, we haven't had many deep passes against us this year - because he's such a threat. If you look at the Washington catch against Smoot, Landry had man coverage responsibility because of the blitz, hence Smoot was isolated. If you watch that play again you can see how close we got to taking down Leftwich and that's the blitz in a nutshell - when it works you hit them for a big loss, but when it doesn't you run a big risk of a deep ball being completed or a short pass being broken (because you don't have deep coverage).

Landry has roamed sideline to sideline repeatedly this season and provided support to the corners while Horton primarily played run support. How many times have you seen the opposition going underneath or sticking to out patterns to avoid the middle of the field? Answer is a lot of the time. Blache is so confident of Landry, he repeatedly puts 8 in the box and that's why we are so good against the run.

Believe me if we had the Steelers or Titans Dline, we'd be the top ranked D. We have been exposed because QB's get too much time to pass on us. And if we could contain the run with just the front 7 then we'd have a lot more INT's. You think the Titans have a better secondary than us? I'll take Landry and Horton over their two safeties any day, and I'd still pick Carlos over most other CB's in the league based on his overall play this season.

We have one problem on this defence and its called the Dline. If we could fix that right now, this thread wouldn't be here.
Well put. Thank you.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:14 PM   #33
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

Agree w/ Schneed especially and others that Landry invaluable even though we don't see him on many plays. I'm wondering how many don't follow college ball because Landry was the FS @ LSU and by his senior years offenses were so intimidated there was rarely a long pass thrown against the LSU defense. His being a "step behind" on some plays this year is a result of the nagging injury but... Zorn commented that Landry showed more burst on Monday night than all year. And w/ the extra rest I think LL will be dominant in the last 7 games - probably take some teams by surprise and snatch an INT or two. Only concern w/ him is the injury - was it a 2nd year fluke or is this kid gonna have muscle issues? (The preseason race probably wasn't the best idea)

Rocky concerns me because of Zorn's comments this season. When he feels confident in his body he flies around and makes plays, which we saw pretty consistently in the 1st qtr of the season. Since then he's been less effective, which by Zorn's judgment means Rocky could be a little nicked up or just worried about another catastrophic injury. Like someone else said London has covered Rocky's ass (along w/ 3 or 4 other guys IMO). Anyway, I never figured Rocky would have a long NFL career so if we get another couple years of consistent play from him it's enough for me.
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Old 11-07-2008, 06:09 PM   #34
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

To all of those who want to speak so thoroughly about their plethora of defensive coordinating and true judge of how well a player plays and speak about how ignorant it is to criticize Landry...

Watch him attempt tackles and tell me it textbook... those of you who can't agree with criticism of him in this area never played football....

Secondly... use arguments backed by facts if you are going to tell other people how stupid they are... Share with us the matrix that says we give up fewer pass plays of 20+ yards than anyone else in football... I checked and we are tied for 7th in the NFL in giving up pass plays of 20+ and tied for 14th in giving up plays of 40+ .... good enough, but definitely not suggesting NO ONE is going for big passing plays against us... if you look at ALL passing matrix, you would be gushing about our CORNERS moreso than Landry...

If teams are throwing underneath like you all say because they are so terrified of Laron Landry, then their completion pcts should be avg/above avg, but we are 4th in this area (only 55%! awesome!)

Look... I'm not a Landry hater. Do I like how he acted this offseason? No. But I am just talking about his play thus far this season... Do I think he a great athlete who has tremendous potential? Yes. I am just not sold on his work ethic (and, therefore results) to this point.

Also... McIntosh is on pace for 80 tackles, 1 sack, and ZERO ints... AND FOUR PASSES DEFENDED. Check for SLBs around the league playing this same position in the 4-3 and tell me he is above average....

I posted because I HAVE been watching them both show up LATE to plays, make misreads, and try and tackle with shoulders and forearms instead of wrapping up.

I just thought it was worth validly discussing... not being lectured on how Laron Landry is better than Ed Reed... lol
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Old 11-07-2008, 06:38 PM   #35
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

I have no issues with Landry or McIntosh. The Redskins are a competitive, top ten team.
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:06 PM   #36
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

Our D is fine guys. Rocky has proven his worth already and knee injuries are the most serious a football player can have, behind concussions. Only weakness to me is theCB depth. Springs is a walking injury, and Carlos isn't that far behind in that department.
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:12 PM   #37
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
Agree w/ Schneed especially and others that Landry invaluable even though we don't see him on many plays. I'm wondering how many don't follow college ball because Landry was the FS @ LSU and by his senior years offenses were so intimidated there was rarely a long pass thrown against the LSU defense. His being a "step behind" on some plays this year is a result of the nagging injury but... Zorn commented that Landry showed more burst on Monday night than all year. And w/ the extra rest I think LL will be dominant in the last 7 games - probably take some teams by surprise and snatch an INT or two. Only concern w/ him is the injury - was it a 2nd year fluke or is this kid gonna have muscle issues? (The preseason race probably wasn't the best idea)

Rocky concerns me because of Zorn's comments this season. When he feels confident in his body he flies around and makes plays, which we saw pretty consistently in the 1st qtr of the season. Since then he's been less effective, which by Zorn's judgment means Rocky could be a little nicked up or just worried about another catastrophic injury. Like someone else said London has covered Rocky's ass (along w/ 3 or 4 other guys IMO). Anyway, I never figured Rocky would have a long NFL career so if we get another couple years of consistent play from him it's enough for me.
If you are Vinny Cerrato, do you consider not extending McIntosh past his rookie deal because of his knee?

On one hand, we're a youth-starved team that invested a lot to draft Rocky only three years ago. On the other, most of our draft picks in the last few years have been wildly successful, and most of those guys are already going to garner huge deals around the same time: Campbell, Rogers, Cooley (already got his), Landry, Horton, Golston, and maybe Blades.

I'd say, right now, I would give McIntosh the Dockery treatment. Keep him and play him as long as he's under his rookie deal/RFA years, but once he hits UFA, I'd let him walk.
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Old 11-08-2008, 12:26 PM   #38
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

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Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
I don't know if anyone else has been watching these two guys closely... but I have for the past few games and man have they been bad/nonexistent.

Yeah they get a couple of tackles... but McIntosh makes poor read after poor read and Chris Horton plays the way Landry was supposed to... and by the way I am LOVING that guy (it blows my mind how well he is playing)

Landy just tries to "blow up" guys contantly, tucking his arms in and just hitting guys instead of wrapping up... and in the pass game, constantly a step late everywhere...

Neither guy is helping us right now and the both just completely have disappeared this year as a whole... I know McIntosh is coming back from injury but so is Rogers...

Anyone else notice?
I've noticed the same thing from Landry. At the end of last season he was on fire during our run. He was making picks and basically causing havoc. This season only thing I remember is him getting trucked by Brandon Jacobs. But the defense overall is playing good.
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Old 11-08-2008, 01:44 PM   #39
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
To all of those who want to speak so thoroughly about their plethora of defensive coordinating and true judge of how well a player plays and speak about how ignorant it is to criticize Landry...

Watch him attempt tackles and tell me it textbook... those of you who can't agree with criticism of him in this area never played football....

Secondly... use arguments backed by facts if you are going to tell other people how stupid they are... Share with us the matrix that says we give up fewer pass plays of 20+ yards than anyone else in football... I checked and we are tied for 7th in the NFL in giving up pass plays of 20+ and tied for 14th in giving up plays of 40+ .... good enough, but definitely not suggesting NO ONE is going for big passing plays against us... if you look at ALL passing matrix, you would be gushing about our CORNERS moreso than Landry...

If teams are throwing underneath like you all say because they are so terrified of Laron Landry, then their completion pcts should be avg/above avg, but we are 4th in this area (only 55%! awesome!)

Look... I'm not a Landry hater. Do I like how he acted this offseason? No. But I am just talking about his play thus far this season... Do I think he a great athlete who has tremendous potential? Yes. I am just not sold on his work ethic (and, therefore results) to this point.

Also... McIntosh is on pace for 80 tackles, 1 sack, and ZERO ints... AND FOUR PASSES DEFENDED. Check for SLBs around the league playing this same position in the 4-3 and tell me he is above average....

I posted because I HAVE been watching them both show up LATE to plays, make misreads, and try and tackle with shoulders and forearms instead of wrapping up.

I just thought it was worth validly discussing... not being lectured on how Laron Landry is better than Ed Reed... lol
First of all - Chill.

If you wanted to creat a great discussion thread, that got alot of people voicing their opinions, you have succeeded.

That said, I'll give it to you that some of Landry's tackles are not fundamental tackles (and I have played football, since you threw that in there too). You are right, statistics should have been brought up before the word stupid was used. Now that you have put the facts up, whats wrong with 7th for 20+? Hell, even 14th for 40+? And, this DOES fall back on the corners more that it does on Landry.

As far as I'm concerned, the only valid argument towards Landry's play thus far is his tackling. He tackles high, and he doesn't wrap up all the time. He is big, but not big enough to drop a shoulder above the waiste on RBs and expect them to drop.

Thats it.
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Old 11-08-2008, 02:23 PM   #40
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

Landry hasn't had a Pro Bowl season, but he is in year 2 of his pro career and year 1 of being a Free Safety. The season is only half over, so he'll have plenty of time to earn his money.

McIntosh is coming off major reconstructive surgery, which may explain why he's a step slow at times. The way he and Carlos Rogers have performed this year is a testament to our training staff.
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Old 11-08-2008, 05:03 PM   #41
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I wonder how many of those long completions involved big YAC? Stats can be deceiving.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:05 PM   #42
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
If you are Vinny Cerrato, do you consider not extending McIntosh past his rookie deal because of his knee?

On one hand, we're a youth-starved team that invested a lot to draft Rocky only three years ago. On the other, most of our draft picks in the last few years have been wildly successful, and most of those guys are already going to garner huge deals around the same time: Campbell, Rogers, Cooley (already got his), Landry, Horton, Golston, and maybe Blades.

I'd say, right now, I would give McIntosh the Dockery treatment. Keep him and play him as long as he's under his rookie deal/RFA years, but once he hits UFA, I'd let him walk.
I think that's the most likely scenario, if not as a matter of default. Wouldn't hurt to offer him an extension of a few short years (if he continues to improve) but Rocky will probably be looking for a long term deal and hit the market anyway. I just wouldn't bet the farm on him w/ the risk of degenerative knee(s).
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:23 PM   #43
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

i LOVE Horton.

LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE.
i cannot begin to explain the love and faith I have in that safety.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:24 AM   #44
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

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i LOVE Horton.

LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE.
i cannot begin to explain the love and faith I have in that safety.
Whoa there, he is ONLY a rookie. Say that again in a year or so and see if it is still plausable. He is a great rookie, especially for a 7th round pick, but he has a long way to go before I have complete trust in him like I do Fletcher & Co.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:00 PM   #45
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Re: McIntosh & Landry

could horton play free? switchin it up every so often to utilize both of their skills
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