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Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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View Poll Results: What's wrong with the offense?
Offensive Line 129 56.09%
Playcalling 18 7.83%
Receivers 8 3.48%
Quarterback 16 6.96%
Injuries 3 1.30%
Combination or other 56 24.35%
Voters: 230. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-20-2008, 12:09 AM   #121
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

Campbell is what? 6' 4"....6'5" ? Besides that, thats why you have rollouts.
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:16 AM   #122
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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Originally Posted by ArcticRed View Post
This year seems nearly the same as last year, the skins move the ball fairly well between the 20s but struggle in the redzone. Last year many of us were saying the same thing, we need a 2nd receiver or the oline as JC was being harrased alot.

My question is why is it when TC stepped in and our offense did better, including the redzone?

My thought is that JC was/still is reluctant to take chances. I think not having a 2nd receiver or oline contributes it, but how much is it their fault and how much of it is JCs?
You may have a point there ArcticRed.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:55 AM   #123
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
For the season, we're significantly above average in Offensive DVOA fwiw:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

I think any "problems" with the offense has to be based on the last two games in which we 1) looked utterly pathetic, 2) turned the ball over three times, 3) made no major plays down the field, and 4) generally did not move the ball regardless of field position.

My question to everyone on the Warpath (pun intended) is this: since we're so concerned about the state of the offense to the point that we can't mention everything else, what makes these last two games more meaningful to us than the prior seven. Because seven is a bigger number than two.

Might it just be just because these games are fresh in our minds? Because the Cowboys game was coming off a bye week (ignoring of course that the 'Boys were also coming off bye), because it was the Cowboys in general?

Or might we just be overreacting to the issues on the offensive side of the ball...

We certainly have been horseshit on offense lately, but with the exact same players, we've been great. Can't it be turned around?
Good points, but I personally haven't thought our offense has done that great even before the past 2 games. We had 3 games we should have won and it was the offense that struggled even in those games. Too many times we get great field position only to settle for field goal attempts. I think the fact that our record was good made people feel the team was really better then what it is offensively.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:14 PM   #124
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

The receivers are the problem. Vinny Cerrato's failure to properly evaluate Kelly and Thomas has set us back terribbly. I'm waiting tor the leaks to start soon about how worthless these two are in terms of work habits, etc. as a prelude to dumping them In the offseason) and signing a veteran or two. The team always defends busts right up to the point when they stop defending them.

I think Zorn and his staff can succeed, if we fire Cerratto and bring in some one else or perhaps promote Morrocco Whatshisface that everyone loves so much. Vinny is hopeless. I listen to him and he can't get a sentence out without mentioning Notre Dame or San Fransisco and how great his times were there. He doesn't even like the Redskins. He needs to go.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:29 PM   #125
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

If the receivers are the problem, then it wouldn't be the receivers who are actually on the field regularly, Moss and Randle El?

Kelly and Thomas will be just fine, I thought Kelly would be further along than DT at this point but it's just crazy to start writing them off 10 games into their careers.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:34 PM   #126
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
If the receivers are the problem, then it wouldn't be the receivers who are actually on the field regularly, Moss and Randle El?

Kelly and Thomas will be just fine, I thought Kelly would be further along than DT at this point but it's just crazy to start writing them off 10 games into their careers.
I would love to see breakout games from these guys this weekend. If they can come on down the stretch, that can be a massive factor in our playoff run. These words from Zorn on Kelly make all warm and fuzzy:

"He did pretty good. Real good," Zorn said of Kelly. "The thing that shows up right away, when Malcolm is out there, is that you can throw a vicinity pass, just a pass in the vicinity, and he's going to snag it. He has an easy way of catching the football. He makes something that could be spectacular for somebody else just look fairly easy. It's impressive. We've just got to hope he can continue."

Yes coach, we certainly hope he can.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:46 PM   #127
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
For the season, we're significantly above average in Offensive DVOA

I think any "problems" with the offense has to be based on the last two games in which we 1) looked utterly pathetic, 2) turned the ball over three times, 3) made no major plays down the field, and 4) generally did not move the ball regardless of field position.

My question to everyone on the Warpath (pun intended) is this: since we're so concerned about the state of the offense to the point that we can't mention everything else, what makes these last two games more meaningful to us than the prior seven. Because seven is a bigger number than two.

Might it just be just because these games are fresh in our minds? Because the Cowboys game was coming off a bye week (ignoring of course that the 'Boys were also coming off bye), because it was the Cowboys in general?
Regardless of what Football Outsiders says, my eyes tell me our offense has struggled mightily over the past five games. We have done a fairly good job of moving the the ball, but our offense's main objective isn't to move the ball, it's to put the ball in the endzone or through the uprights.

To throw some stats your way: against the Rams, Browns, and Lions, we scored 17 points against the league's 3rd worst defense, 14 points against the league's 6th worst defense, and 18 points against the league's 2nd worst defense. Over the past five games, we're averaging 12.4 points and 4 sacks allowed. On the season, we've converted 3rd downs just over 1/3 of the time (21st the league) and are averaging 18 points on offense per game (27th in the league).

Could we recover? I think and hope so, but we've got issues.

Last edited by Sheriff Gonna Getcha; 11-20-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:36 PM   #128
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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Regardless of what Football Outsiders says, my eyes tell me our offense has struggled mightily over the past five games. We have done a fairly good job of moving the the ball, but our offense's main objective isn't to move the ball, it's to put the ball in the endzone or throw the uprights.

To throw some stats your way: against the Rams, Browns, and Lions, we scored 17 points against the league's 3rd worst defense, 14 points against the league's 6th worst defense, and 18 points against the league's 2nd worst defense. Over the past five games, we've averaging 12.4 points and 4 sacks allowed. On the season, we've converted 3rd downs just over 1/3 of the time (21st the league) and are averaging 18 points on offense per game (27th in the league).

Could we recover? I think and hope so, but we've got issues.
That's pretty much the meat of it, SSG. Fancy, obscure statistics do little to make me feel better when the obvious, important stats like scoring points and 3rd down conversions are miserable.

We need an offensive explosion to get some confidence brewing. Seattle's awful secondary could offer that chance if we can keep JC upright.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:14 PM   #129
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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Originally Posted by GMScud View Post
I would love to see breakout games from these guys this weekend. If they can come on down the stretch, that can be a massive factor in our playoff run. These words from Zorn on Kelly make all warm and fuzzy:

"He did pretty good. Real good," Zorn said of Kelly. "The thing that shows up right away, when Malcolm is out there, is that you can throw a vicinity pass, just a pass in the vicinity, and he's going to snag it. He has an easy way of catching the football. He makes something that could be spectacular for somebody else just look fairly easy. It's impressive. We've just got to hope he can continue."

Yes coach, we certainly hope he can.
I think we may be closer than people think. Kelly could make a huge difference in the red zone and Devin has already proven he can get open. It's just taking longer than I expected. For these guys to bust out now would be perfect!
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:45 PM   #130
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
Regardless of what Football Outsiders says, my eyes tell me our offense has struggled mightily over the past five games. We have done a fairly good job of moving the the ball, but our offense's main objective isn't to move the ball, it's to put the ball in the endzone or through the uprights.

To throw some stats your way: against the Rams, Browns, and Lions, we scored 17 points against the league's 3rd worst defense, 14 points against the league's 6th worst defense, and 18 points against the league's 2nd worst defense. Over the past five games, we're averaging 12.4 points and 4 sacks allowed. On the season, we've converted 3rd downs just over 1/3 of the time (21st the league) and are averaging 18 points on offense per game (27th in the league).

Could we recover? I think and hope so, but we've got issues.
Okay, I just finished the breakdown, and am currently writing the articles for posting, and I think I can show that our offense was twice as effective against the Cowboys as it was against the Steelers. I had previously lumped these games together, but the truth is that the Cowboys are significantly weaker on defense, and we played them much, much better than we played the Steelers. This makes sense, since we had the bye week to fix things.

Also, the plays where the offensive line messed up...they were there, but they actually played a pretty good game all things considered. This loss can not be put on the offensive line. (The Steelers game, though, is another story)

I'll explain more, but wait until you see the defensive numbers from this game. For as poorly as Romo played, the numbers should have been great, but the play by play breakdown is actually very embarrassing. I think we have serious issues on defense, but because we came up with two incredibly timely INTs, I think this went unnoticed.

I'm not saying your eyes are wrong, Sheriff, because my eyes saw exactly what yours did. However, when I slowed down the tape, I got a totally different picture of this game. I'll elaborate in the breakdowns.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:17 PM   #131
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

Protect the QB and the offense can work with average skill positions. Have a superior run-blocking line and you can plug in any running back that's played D-1 ball. The O-line in the problem.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:46 AM   #132
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
If the receivers are the problem, then it wouldn't be the receivers who are actually on the field regularly, Moss and Randle El?

Kelly and Thomas will be just fine, I thought Kelly would be further along than DT at this point but it's just crazy to start writing them off 10 games into their careers.
They had Moss and El and they still drafted three big receivers with their top picks. I think the logic was, "They can't all be busts". Well. In this offense, with all the slants and other shortish routes, we need a big receiver that can muscle the defensive backs. That's what I see.

I know people get made fun of when they bring Madden in, but when Zorn was hired, I switched my Madden playbook to Holmgren, and it is brutal to try to get a deep pass with that offense and our personell. And I'm not nearly as careful with the ball as Jason. I heave it. There aren't enough combinations and deep breaks for guys to get open.

Furthermore, the reluctance to use motion and formation shifts is not helping our pass pro issues. You can shift a defense like Pittsburgh's out of blitzes or you can at least force the issue away from pressure. These West Coast followers are too dogmatic about not using shifts and motion. A blitzing defense still has to cover and when you shift or motion they have to adjust. That's why teams do it. It slows them down. You also force favorable matchups. This is how I see it.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:35 AM   #133
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

Combo: OL & WR. The OL breaks down against good defenses and the WR's other then Moss do not get it done. Hard to pick one over the other.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:42 PM   #134
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

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There's always gotta be a fall guy, and for some reason people would rather look at the coaches first than the talent on the field.

Im not making Bugel the fall guy, this isnt like the line just got old. The technique has been bad for years, (remember Ramsey (under gibbs preseason and 1/2 of one game) and Brunell had no time to throw at all? Christ remember the Cowboy game Brunell had no time at all, except the two bombs to Moss. That was basically year one, and the line has not gotten better, they have just gotten older. The Skins dont/and havent had a stout o-line, there are constantly blown assignments, false starts, and the skins cant even pick up a blitz half the time.

To me, that is coaching, recognizing how the other teams defense operates, and then educating the players how to defeat the defense.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:21 PM   #135
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Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?

In my opinion, the problem lies where it has for the past 5 years.

It’s the LINES —Stupid! | DC Pro Sports Report -- Sports news, stats and analysis from the capital of the free world

It's the Lines. Our ability to open up routes, both medium and the long ball are hampered by poor pass protection. Listen, these guys know it. They've said it. They are much better in run blocking. BUT, that is a problem in this offense. They need to be good in pass protection, and they simply are not.

On the other side i is about pass pressure. There is none, unless we blitz. The front four can not garner any ounce of consistency with pass pressure. You can have the best corner backs in the league, because I think we are at the top,, but how long do you really expect them to blanket a receiver. For the Redskins, the problem is, QBs consistently have ample time to scan the field when we rush 4. Fact is, Gregg Williams is wrong. That is why no other defensive coach does it on purpose. GW believed you could have a mediocre pass rush if you bring blitzes elsewhere and have good corners. BUT good team, consistently good teams, get pressure form the front four. The mediocre pass rush has not worked in DC in 7 years and until we address it, we are going to get picked apart at times by guys like Romo and Manning. You pressure them, they make mistakes, you don't they pick you apart.
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