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when will they ever learn???

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Old 11-30-2008, 08:58 PM   #1
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when will they ever learn???

RUN THE BALL! simple, you can blame it on whoever you want. coaches, players, who ever you want......but heres the deal, you run the ball in washington dc in order to win. we dont pass because our quarterback takes 3 years to throw a 5 yard out or he forces a ball on a slant route. he doesnt have any clue about the speed of the game.......so in order to protect a qb who holds the ball for years in the pocket, you have to run.......whether you run the ball on first down and get a yard, turn around and run it again, its getting old to watch us pass the ball around like we are good at it.......we need run it is the only way to win, use up all the running backs to get that job done....you run you will be able to pass protect i promise you that, after all the praise of the oline after the first 8 weeks. they are still the same oline you just need to run the damn ball more because that is what they are made for.....learn from the past.
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:27 PM   #2
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Re: when will they ever learn???

If a team stacks 8-9 guys in the box, you have to be able to throw the ball. Simple as that. Yes, we need to run. But if you can't pass, a good front-7 plus a safety will beat you. We've seen it 3 out of the last 4 game. Pitt, Dallas, and the Giants all have excellent fronts.

Gibbs I offense could throw. Yes, they were strong at the run, but they could exploit Ds that cheated against the run. We've been unable to do that this year.
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:50 PM   #3
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Re: when will they ever learn???

Balance my friend. We don't have it. Period.
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:55 PM   #4
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Re: when will they ever learn???

This argument is simplistic. If the defense is one of the best in the NFL; if they're stacking 8 in the box; if they are an elite DL; you're not going to be able to run. 11 carries for 22 yds from a top RB, playing an emotional game, proves the point. One trick play (double reverse for the TD) does not a running game make.

The Giats set up their defense for Campbell to beat them and he couldn't. Dropped balls, Dropped INT, penalties, thrown INTs and a fumble helped in this loss. This offense is not that good, nor in synch. They need to improve to help this team win.
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:57 PM   #5
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Re: when will they ever learn???

when was the fumble??
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:06 PM   #6
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Re: when will they ever learn???

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when was the fumble??

Very last play. NOT that it mattered.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:14 PM   #7
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Re: when will they ever learn???

Considering Portis was leading the league in rushing coming into the game today I think Zorn is well aware of the importance of running the ball. The key is to be effective in running the ball, and we simply could not get that going today. Give the Giants credit.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by holcknowsbest View Post
RUN THE BALL! simple, you can blame it on whoever you want. coaches, players, who ever you want......but heres the deal, you run the ball in washington dc in order to win. we dont pass because our quarterback takes 3 years to throw a 5 yard out or he forces a ball on a slant route. he doesnt have any clue about the speed of the game.......so in order to protect a qb who holds the ball for years in the pocket, you have to run.......whether you run the ball on first down and get a yard, turn around and run it again, its getting old to watch us pass the ball around like we are good at it.......we need run it is the only way to win, use up all the running backs to get that job done....you run you will be able to pass protect i promise you that, after all the praise of the oline after the first 8 weeks. they are still the same oline you just need to run the damn ball more because that is what they are made for.....learn from the past.

Terrible suggestion. But please it is brilliant if you head to either Dallas or NY or any team we are about to play b/c that is unsound advice if I chose to degrade the word advice.

Heres my suggestion to go back in time with....

If we wanted to be able to run against a team determined to stop our run its
simple Pass, Spread them out too. Giants are weakest in coverage. Thats why slants were called, but they were dropped-. If we were airing it out thats the time when we should draw. Instead Zorn would call draws or screens before we had them on their heels. Nothing deep was establiished. Teams would rather stack 7-8 b/c there is a better chance our OL breaks down, Campbell gets sacked, or our receivers won't make a play.
We do the same thing but we have faith in our DB's other teams are not that fortunate but we "Let them off the hook Denny Green" by not capitalizing when we have the ball. LET THEM GET FLAGGED FOR TOO MANY MEN ON THE FIELD. THEY CAN'T PUT 7-8 IN THE BOX IF WE HAVE 4 WIDE EVEN 4 WIDE AND COOLEY GOING OUT But when they do we choose to run anyhow and Its like I just read you say that is what we sshould be doing so I guess your upset b/c we didn't lose bad enough....I don't share those motives, I'd rather win.

So, your suggesting we just run think run Run team.
Well, when we are trailing and the game is winding down and we know we have no air attack we play into their hands on 3rd and longs b/c we have to pass, its too obvious, our WR's are doubled teamed. Running with guys in the box plays into their favor and suddenly our secret weapon of Sellers backfires and time gets away and we still punt before midfield.

I think ultimately you mean when we are winning and control the clock and can still keep the run game going its a great thing.

Take it back a few years, think of constant shuffles and poor productivity with Coaches,Cordinators,systems,QB's,and personal, i.e. Brunell's 5 yard vision, Ramsey sack issues, all the past pathetic WR's and teams live in the box and stack the line
Factor in NY DL needs no help, so 7-8 is more lethal something we have not on our team in effectiveness. Plus, Spagnolo can do his packages and trickery like we used to have with GWilliams or has Blatche's pure vanilla wiped all memory too?


Today was just all around bad. We are not a good team. Our season is over so the only matters now is that Sean is honored in the ring and we have the suffer the rest.wow thats long
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:17 PM   #9
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Re: when will they ever learn???

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Balance my friend. We don't have it. Period.
Teams that do have balance. Steelers and Giants.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:29 PM   #10
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Re: when will they ever learn???

If you don't connect on the throws you make, why would they respect your play action. As said earlier, balance is the key to being able to both run and pass.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:45 PM   #11
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Re: when will they ever learn???

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Considering Portis was leading the league in rushing coming into the game today I think Zorn is well aware of the importance of running the ball. The key is to be effective in running the ball, and we simply could not get that going today. Give the Giants credit.
It's the formula for beating us if their DL is better than our OL.

The Giant's continue to be the best team in the NFL. No shame in our lose today.
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Old 11-30-2008, 11:55 PM   #12
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Re: when will they ever learn???

They tried to run but we had the Barry Sanders diease..Each running play he's being hit in the backfield before he hits the hole.
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Old 12-01-2008, 04:13 PM   #13
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Re: when will they ever learn???

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Terrible suggestion. But please it is brilliant if you head to either Dallas or NY or any team we are about to play b/c that is unsound advice if I chose to degrade the word advice.

Heres my suggestion to go back in time with....

If we wanted to be able to run against a team determined to stop our run its
simple Pass, Spread them out too. Giants are weakest in coverage. Thats why slants were called, but they were dropped-. If we were airing it out thats the time when we should draw. Instead Zorn would call draws or screens before we had them on their heels. Nothing deep was establiished. Teams would rather stack 7-8 b/c there is a better chance our OL breaks down, Campbell gets sacked, or our receivers won't make a play.
We do the same thing but we have faith in our DB's other teams are not that fortunate but we "Let them off the hook Denny Green" by not capitalizing when we have the ball. LET THEM GET FLAGGED FOR TOO MANY MEN ON THE FIELD. THEY CAN'T PUT 7-8 IN THE BOX IF WE HAVE 4 WIDE EVEN 4 WIDE AND COOLEY GOING OUT But when they do we choose to run anyhow and Its like I just read you say that is what we sshould be doing so I guess your upset b/c we didn't lose bad enough....I don't share those motives, I'd rather win.

So, your suggesting we just run think run Run team.
Well, when we are trailing and the game is winding down and we know we have no air attack we play into their hands on 3rd and longs b/c we have to pass, its too obvious, our WR's are doubled teamed. Running with guys in the box plays into their favor and suddenly our secret weapon of Sellers backfires and time gets away and we still punt before midfield.

I think ultimately you mean when we are winning and control the clock and can still keep the run game going its a great thing.

Take it back a few years, think of constant shuffles and poor productivity with Coaches,Cordinators,systems,QB's,and personal, i.e. Brunell's 5 yard vision, Ramsey sack issues, all the past pathetic WR's and teams live in the box and stack the line
Factor in NY DL needs no help, so 7-8 is more lethal something we have not on our team in effectiveness. Plus, Spagnolo can do his packages and trickery like we used to have with GWilliams or has Blatche's pure vanilla wiped all memory too?


Today was just all around bad. We are not a good team. Our season is over so the only matters now is that Sean is honored in the ring and we have the suffer the rest.wow thats long
whatever you want to think, thats fine. heres the whole argument, if you run the first two downs and its 3rd and 8 even, which is often at worst when we run on the first two downs, that is better than 3 and 8 after having passed on one of the first two downs....the reasoning behind that is this, the running game is process of wearing someone down. how many times do you hear that a running back is better in the 4th quarter? all the time. you stick with what works, maybe not play to play, but what has worked in the past and the present....thats running the football even if at certain times it doesnt look good, cause it only takes one to put the defense on skates....i would rather put the game in our oline and clinton portis's (or any of our backs) hands than in our oline and jason campbells hands...JC hasnt done anything in 2 and half years to prove he is worthy of that burden.

spreading them out? are you serious, when your qb is not a threat it does nothing......oh and we spread them out on that 4th and 1 play too, didnt work. rules on running short yardage, dont ever give it to the first guy through and always create a tight formation....reasons for this are long but all in all if you are relying on tricking people to get a yard then you dont need to call plays. didnt fool the giants wont fool the ravens.

balance? i agree to this but i believe balance for us comes after we have established at least a seed that we dont care if you stuff us we will run the ball again and again....then you can throw off that, its not throw to set up the run, thats for college football. its run to set up the pass. if you run consistently (attempts more than yards) your pass will be much better, esspecially given our QB and his delievery time.....he needs more time or we need a new qb, no offensive line could consistently block for campbell right now, i think hes not making quick decisions.
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Old 12-01-2008, 04:58 PM   #14
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Re: when will they ever learn???

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Originally Posted by holcknowsbest View Post
whatever you want to think, thats fine. heres the whole argument, if you run the first two downs and its 3rd and 8 even, which is often at worst when we run on the first two downs, that is better than 3 and 8 after having passed on one of the first two downs....the reasoning behind that is this, the running game is process of wearing someone down. how many times do you hear that a running back is better in the 4th quarter? all the time. you stick with what works, maybe not play to play, but what has worked in the past and the present....thats running the football even if at certain times it doesnt look good, cause it only takes one to put the defense on skates....i would rather put the game in our oline and clinton portis's (or any of our backs) hands than in our oline and jason campbells hands...JC hasnt done anything in 2 and half years to prove he is worthy of that burden.

spreading them out? are you serious, when your qb is not a threat it does nothing......oh and we spread them out on that 4th and 1 play too, didnt work. rules on running short yardage, dont ever give it to the first guy through and always create a tight formation....reasons for this are long but all in all if you are relying on tricking people to get a yard then you dont need to call plays. didnt fool the giants wont fool the ravens.

balance? i agree to this but i believe balance for us comes after we have established at least a seed that we dont care if you stuff us we will run the ball again and again....then you can throw off that, its not throw to set up the run, thats for college football. its run to set up the pass. if you run consistently (attempts more than yards) your pass will be much better, esspecially given our QB and his delievery time.....he needs more time or we need a new qb, no offensive line could consistently block for campbell right now, i think hes not making quick decisions.
I understand what you're sayin' here, holc, and it seems logical.

But none of it is actually true, or if it is, there's no evidence to make me think it would be. Ineffective running isn't wearing anyone down when compared to say, effective passing. You've got to adjust to the defense and attack where they are weak.
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:32 PM   #15
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Re: when will they ever learn???

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Originally Posted by holcknowsbest View Post
whatever you want to think, thats fine. heres the whole argument, if you run the first two downs and its 3rd and 8 even, which is often at worst when we run on the first two downs, that is better than 3 and 8 after having passed on one of the first two downs....the reasoning behind that is this, the running game is process of wearing someone down. how many times do you hear that a running back is better in the 4th quarter? all the time. you stick with what works, maybe not play to play, but what has worked in the past and the present....thats running the football even if at certain times it doesnt look good, cause it only takes one to put the defense on skates....i would rather put the game in our oline and clinton portis's (or any of our backs) hands than in our oline and jason campbells hands...JC hasnt done anything in 2 and half years to prove he is worthy of that burden.

spreading them out? are you serious, when your qb is not a threat it does nothing......oh and we spread them out on that 4th and 1 play too, didnt work. rules on running short yardage, dont ever give it to the first guy through and always create a tight formation....reasons for this are long but all in all if you are relying on tricking people to get a yard then you dont need to call plays. didnt fool the giants wont fool the ravens.

balance? i agree to this but i believe balance for us comes after we have established at least a seed that we dont care if you stuff us we will run the ball again and again....then you can throw off that, its not throw to set up the run, thats for college football. its run to set up the pass. if you run consistently (attempts more than yards) your pass will be much better, esspecially given our QB and his delievery time.....he needs more time or we need a new qb, no offensive line could consistently block for campbell right now, i think hes not making quick decisions.

Hahaha, again you make the case to be 1 dimensional. But hey I wouldn't expect someone lacking knowledge to be insightful. You seem to be standing firm that we should adopt Redskin football before Slingin' Sammy and only run....Well, I guess to not expect much roundtable from you in the future. Way to break the atom and further humanity. Run the ball... why even have WR's?? We will have a stable of RB's...I'm putting you on my friends list b/c you will have me wetting myself all day long. You the next George Carlin.
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