Some offseason optimism

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-07-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

so a coach - Shanahan - that could not win a division that had an 8-8 division champ is better than a rookie coach that had an 8-8 record. The grass is always greener

Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.

SmootSmack · 01-07-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.

So, I have a few questions here

1. Who would you want as GM if Shanahan is the coach?

2. Why would you want to continue the WCO installe by Zorn when you just said the changes Zorn has brought have hurt the team, not helped it

3. Are you really hoping the team fails next year?

CRedskinsRule · 01-07-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.

And I would again say Cowher has 1 SB in how many years. Why on earth can't we just allow people time to develop. Shanahan and Cowher were great because they had owners who allowed them to have up and down seasons. Shanahan hasn't been to the SB since when, had 3 mediocre seasons in a row and could never regain the magic he had with Elway and Davis. Why would he here. A similar statement can be made with Cowher. The NFC East is not the AFC North or West, it will always be more brutal then those two divisions. Snyder needs to, as he did with Gibbs, give Zorn years to develop to his full potential. Hopefully they chose wisely when they picked him.

LandrySlice · 01-07-2009, 04:10 PM

I would love to see Shanahan come here after next year, but lets get real, what big name really wants to come to this train wreck no matter what the money? Legendary future hall of fame coaches will want to go to a good organization with a real GM and an owner who isin't trying to play fantasy football with his team.

davy · 01-07-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Zorn inherited a team with a very strong running game from Joe Gibbs. We started 6-2 because we adhered to that running game. As the season went on, teams began to adjust to Zorn. How did Zorn adjust back? According to Clinton Portis, he tried to start changing things with the running game - the one thing that was working right! - and we went 2-6 in the 2nd half of the season.

We will not get better unless Zorn changes dramatically for the better in his 2nd year. Thus far, the only changes he has instituted have hurt the team, not helped it. If Zorn keeps his staff and continues to do what Zorn wants to do (and not what has been proven to work), I fully expect us to be a 6-10 team at best next year.

Zorn was a very poor hire by Vinny. He was - by far - the dumbest of all the new rookie coaching hires made in the last offseason. it looked that way at the time and it has been confirmed by what we've seen miami, Baltimore, and Atlanta do this year. Vinny sealed his fate with the Zorn hire and the 2009-2010 offseason can't come soon enough.

That is my biggest fear. Was the 6-2 start a carry over from Gibbs and is the 2-6 finish what we should expect from Zorn.

I'm trying very hard to think of something to be optimistic about but I have to admit I'm failing.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-07-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So, I have a few questions here

1. Who would you want as GM if Shanahan is the coach?

2. Why would you want to continue the WCO installe by Zorn when you just said the changes Zorn has brought have hurt the team, not helped it

3. Are you really hoping the team fails next year?

1. I would interview Morocco Brown, Scott Pioli, Bill Parcells, and Mike Holmgren off the top of my head, if they are available. I would also offer Mike Ditka or Jimmy Johnson a ton of money to take the job, but the chances of that are slim to none. I would also consider other execs in the Giants or Patriots, and Eagles front offices - those are teams that have good drafts each and every year.

2. The WCO isnt the problem and i never indicated that it was - my criticism of Zorn was changing up the running game - the one part of the offense that WAS working - midseason. Also, Zorn plain sucks as a playcaller. Shanahan would be immensely superior in that capacity. he would also realize that sherman smith has no business being an offensive coordinator and hire someone with some talent.

3. If Vinny was being truthful when he said he would be fired if he didnt turn the team around by next year then yes, i do hope the team fails. This franchise will never Never NEVER NEVER return to its glory days until Vinny Cerrato is gone and we have a strong GM who does more than just act like an enabler to Snyder. I want whats best for this team long-term. If 2009 has to be horrible for that to happen, then yes, i want the team to fail. The higher our draft picks are in every round of the 2010 draft, the more enticing the GM and Head Coaching jobs will be to Cerrato and Zorns replacements.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-07-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandrySlice

I would love to see Shanahan come here after next year, but lets get real, what big name really wants to come to this train wreck no matter what the money? Legendary future hall of fame coaches will want to go to a good organization with a real GM and an owner who isin't trying to play fantasy football with his team.

Cerrato and Zorn are tied at the hip. If Zorn fails, Cerratos gone. So if we were in the market for a new HC next year, we would also be in the market for a new GM.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-07-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Snyder needs to, as he did with Gibbs, give Zorn years to develop to his full potential. Hopefully they chose wisely when they picked him.

Theres a reason Zorns over 50 and no one ever offered him an offensive coordinator job - let alone a HC position. He got the job here because no one else wanted it - not because he was a good candidate.

SmootSmack · 01-07-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

1. I would interview Morocco Brown, Scott Pioli, Bill Parcells, and Mike Holmgren off the top of my head, if they are available. I would also offer Mike Ditka or Jimmy Johnson a ton of money to take the job, but the chances of that are slim to none. I would also consider other execs in the Giants or Patriots, and Eagles front offices - those are teams that have good drafts each and every year.

2. The WCO isnt the problem and i never indicated that it was - my criticism of Zorn was changing up the running game - the one part of the offense that WAS working - midseason. Also, Zorn plain sucks as a playcaller. Shanahan would be immensely superior in that capacity. he would also realize that sherman smith has no business being an offensive coordinator and hire someone with some talent.

3. If Vinny was being truthful when he said he would be fired if he didnt turn the team around by next year then yes, i do hope the team fails. This franchise will never Never NEVER NEVER return to its glory days until Vinny Cerrato is gone and we have a strong GM who does more than just act like an enabler to Snyder. I want whats best for this team long-term. If 2009 has to be horrible for that to happen, then yes, i want the team to fail. The higher our draft picks are in every round of the 2010 draft, the more enticing the GM and Head Coaching jobs will be to Cerrato and Zorns replacements.

1. Mike Ditka as our GM? Really? Jimmy Johnson has been talked to before but the interest just isn't there. Forget about Parcells, he's staying in Miami and then probably finally retiring for good. I've thought for weeks that Pioli (Parcells' son in law incidentally) is going to KC and I'll stick with that belief. As for Morocco Brown, he seems like a solid young executive. But, a couple of questions, if he was brought in by Cerrato then why wouldn't Snyder send Brown (and Scott Campbell) for that matter packing as well? And how would he be any less of an "enabler" than you claim Cerrato to be?

2. Fine

3. Fine

SmootSmack · 01-07-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Theres a reason Zorns over 50 and no one ever offered him an offensive coordinator job - let alone a HC position. He got the job here because no one else wanted it - not because he was a good candidate.

I don't want to go off-topic but I might as well ask it here. How'd you come up with your nickname? I kinda like it. Reminds me of Sideshow Bob actually

Does it relate to your job or something?

Paintrain · 01-07-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

1. Mike Ditka as our GM? Really? Jimmy Johnson has been talked to before but the interest just isn't there. Forget about Parcells, he's staying in Miami and then probably finally retiring for good. I've thought for weeks that Pioli (Parcells' son in law incidentally) is going to KC and I'll stick with that belief. As for Morocco Brown, he seems like a solid young executive. But, a couple of questions, if he was brought in by Cerrato then why wouldn't Snyder send Brown (and Scott Campbell) for that matter packing as well? And how would he be any less of an "enabler" than you claim Cerrato to be?

I was going to pounce on that one if you hadn't. Mike Ditka who traded us an ENTIRE DRAFT (not that we did much with it) for Ricky Williams, he's who you want as a GM? Is Mike Lynn not available?

I believe that if Snyder drops the hammer on Zorn and Vinny after this year he's going to give whomever comes in full control and autonomy to make all of the football decisions. Even he is smart enough to realize that everybody else has it figured out and he's got to get with the program.

Here's the challenge with the 'Big 3' though:
Cowher-He's very close to Marty, like mentor-mentee (or is it Mento?) close. It'd be really interesting to see if he'd come here after Marty was one and done.

Holmgren-If he comes, that means we just fired his boy Zorn and his system wasn't being run effectively. That's two major strikes to overcome.

Shanahan-He has a strong relationship and strong admiration for Jerry Jones. He's also known to be a bit of a front runner and from a pure talent base a Romo-R. Williams-Witten-Barber/Jones may be more attractive than QB TBD (cause Campbell will be gone if Zorn goes)-Moss-Cooley-Portis. Just some food for thought.

Hog1 · 01-07-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I was going to pounce on that one if you hadn't. Mike Ditka who traded us an ENTIRE DRAFT (not that we did much with it) for Ricky Williams, he's who you want as a GM? Is Mike Lynn not available?

I believe that if Snyder drops the hammer on Zorn and Vinny after this year he's going to give whomever comes in full control and autonomy to make all of the football decisions. Even he is smart enough to realize that everybody else has it figured out and he's got to get with the program.

Here's the challenge with the 'Big 3' though:
Cowher-He's very close to Marty, like mentor-mentee (or is it Mento?) close. It'd be really interesting to see if he'd come here after Marty was one and done.

Holmgren-If he comes, that means we just fired his boy Zorn and his system wasn't being run effectively. That's two major strikes to overcome.

Shanahan-He has a strong relationship and strong admiration for Jerry Jones. He's also known to be a bit of a front runner and from a pure talent base a Romo-R. Williams-Witten-Barber/Jones may be more attractive than QB TBD (cause Campbell will be gone if Zorn goes)-Moss-Cooley-Portis. Just some food for thought.

What's Floyd Reese, Charlie Casserly, and that X-tampa Bay guy doing? Did Dan fire CC?

Miller101 · 01-07-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.

Russ Grimm! Not Cowher! Cowher is old and wouldn't come back for longer than four years anyway. Russ Grimm is young...........well, young enough! and he would know what do do with this power running game that Joe Gibbs built. He would know how to incorporate the downfield pass with it as well.

He would also know, before the season starts, Sellers is a premier full back in this game. He can not only block very well, but he can run and catch the ball too. AND! Get this! Russ would know that a back up center CAN'T BE BLAMED FOR POOR EXECUTION WHEN IT COMES TO BLOCKING SUGGS AT THE TACKLE POSITION!!!

Russ Grimm! We should have hired him for this job! Someone that knows the power running game. Someone that has coaching experience and a superbowl ring as a coach and a player..........Zorn doesn't have one period. And someone that always builds good lineman wherever he goes...........With Pittsburgh it was about run blocking with Arizona its about pass blocking. You name it Russ will bring it!

"We like it so much we're gonna run it again!" - Russ Grimm to Randy White while running 50 gut eight times in a row, which killed the clock and secured the NFC Championship.

Trample the Elderly · 01-07-2009, 10:04 PM

I think that the best optimistic thing that I can say about the Skins is that Vinny is close to losing his job. Perhaps the best thing that can happen for this team is to blow it up and bring in a new GM and Wow, Russ Grim that would be nice. It'd be like bringing Joe Gibbs out of retirement. I like Russ and Joe but they couldn't control the players. Seriously, we'll never go anywhere as long as the players know they'll be there longer than the coaches, and Vinny is up there making stupid mistakes taking their side. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

SmootSmack · 01-07-2009, 11:05 PM

I think some front office names to watch out for in a couple of years are Ron Hughes of the Steelers and Chris Polian and Tom Telesco of the Colts

01-07-2009, 04:10 PM	#34
LandrySlice Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: AFGHANISTAN Posts: 334	Re: Some offseason optimism I would love to see Shanahan come here after next year, but lets get real, what big name really wants to come to this train wreck no matter what the money? Legendary future hall of fame coaches will want to go to a good organization with a real GM and an owner who isin't trying to play fantasy football with his team. __________________ Don't tase me bro!!!!

01-07-2009, 10:04 PM	#44
Trample the Elderly Playmaker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Three Chopt Virginia Age: 35 Posts: 2,906	Re: Some offseason optimism I think that the best optimistic thing that I can say about the Skins is that Vinny is close to losing his job. Perhaps the best thing that can happen for this team is to blow it up and bring in a new GM and Wow, Russ Grim that would be nice. It'd be like bringing Joe Gibbs out of retirement. I like Russ and Joe but they couldn't control the players. Seriously, we'll never go anywhere as long as the players know they'll be there longer than the coaches, and Vinny is up there making stupid mistakes taking their side. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

01-07-2009, 11:05 PM	#45
SmootSmack The Bluths Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,225	Re: Some offseason optimism I think some front office names to watch out for in a couple of years are Ron Hughes of the Steelers and Chris Polian and Tom Telesco of the Colts __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

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Some offseason optimism

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