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The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Old 01-12-2009, 01:42 PM   #16
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

I think it's silly to bring up 1999-2003. It's pointless. Gibbs has to take some responsibilty for some of the bad moves the team has made while he was here. And it doesn't seem Snyder is nearly as involved as Davis and Jones. But if Snyder REALLY wanted to win bad enough, he'd go out and get some people who really knew how to put a team together. Floyd Reece has been sitting out there for a while now. Why isn't he here in some capacity? Reece has as much experience as anyone out there. I know a lot of you out there will frown on it but Casserly knows the league and has helped put together SB winning teams. Why isn't he here? IMO Snyder doesn't want to win bad enough.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:43 PM   #17
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
Gotta say I strongly disagree with this assumption that Snyder is GM'ing the team. He has definitely stepped back in recent years to the point now where I honestly think his input on personnel is pretty limited.

Smootsmack sums things up pretty well above.
Wasn't it Snyder that started negotiating with Lance Briggs with out notifying Gibbs? Hasn't Snyder personally handled contract negotiations with some players? Wouldn't by definition make him at least co-GM?
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:43 PM   #18
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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The problem is we really don't know the exact extent of his involvement to begin with. It's not like he's ever come out and said he pulled the trigger on this move or on that.

Early on he probably was calling more shots than not, but he definitely had input from his Dad, Pepper Rodgers, Vinny, etc. Then for one year Marty took over and was the main guy, then Vinny came back into the fold, then Gibbs, and now Vinny is running football ops and from all indications he is calling the shots and Snyder handles more of the financial end of things, contracts, etc.
I think his involvement to begin with was way more than we thought. I agree there is no way to know for sure but that's my feeling.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:55 PM   #19
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

i will never bitch about Snyder. i think we are all in agreement he wants to win. and i would much rather have an owner that spends money, although maybe not the right way, then one who sits back and pretty much does nothing. perfect example is Jason Taylor. Phil Daniels gets injured late, and the skins definitely need a defensive end. so Snyder goes out and fills a need. was it the right move? probably not. but he did what he thought was right.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:06 PM   #20
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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I think it's silly to bring up 1999-2003. It's pointless. Gibbs has to take some responsibilty for some of the bad moves the team has made while he was here. And it doesn't seem Snyder is nearly as involved as Davis and Jones. But if Snyder REALLY wanted to win bad enough, he'd go out and get some people who really knew how to put a team together. Floyd Reece has been sitting out there for a while now. Why isn't he here in some capacity? Reece has as much experience as anyone out there. I know a lot of you out there will frown on it but Casserly knows the league and has helped put together SB winning teams. Why isn't he here? IMO Snyder doesn't want to win bad enough.
To the extent that as Team President Gibbs had the final "yes or no" on any given player, I would agree -- he bears some responsibility. But I don't think Gibbs was a micro-manager in that role. I believe he knew his limitations, and I still maintain that even during Gibbs 2.0, the man most directly responsible for the content of the roster was and is Vinny Cerrato.

As one who was never afraid to delegate responsibilities, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Gibbs handed the duty of player scouting and grading of college and pro free agents over to Vinny. We know that the overriding philosophy for the Redskins has always been to take the best player available. So isn't it reasonable to say that Gibbs directed Vinny to present to him the best players he thought were available, and Gibbs basically went with them? I think so.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:22 PM   #21
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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i will never bitch about Snyder. i think we are all in agreement he wants to win. and i would much rather have an owner that spends money, although maybe not the right way, then one who sits back and pretty much does nothing. perfect example is Jason Taylor. Phil Daniels gets injured late, and the skins definitely need a defensive end. so Snyder goes out and fills a need. was it the right move? probably not. but he did what he thought was right.
I don't have a problem with an owner who wants to spend money. That's not the issue here. The difference is that there are owners who spend money on players that are recommended by hired hands who know football, and who can be trusted to make the right decisions with regard to player-personnel. Dan Snyder is an owner who has hired someone who has failed at player-personnel, and continues to take his advice. That's the problem.

And as long as Snyder defers to the judgement of Vinny Cerrato, Snyder will continue to take the criticism he so richly deserves. So the writer of this column is exactly right.

Apart from the 1999 team, (since he had no part in constructing it) there have been three 8-8 seasons, four losing seasons, and just two winning seasons with a couple of last place wildcard appearances. If he were to assume control of any other organization that had amassed those results he would have fired everyone from the top down. It's time for him to do the same of himself.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:22 PM   #22
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Wasn't it Snyder that started negotiating with Lance Briggs with out notifying Gibbs? Hasn't Snyder personally handled contract negotiations with some players? Wouldn't by definition make him at least co-GM?
Handling contract negotiations is just one piece of the GM puzzle. He's always been clear that was his deal. So we can't say he hasn't been up front about his role in that regard.

This is just a general thought and not directed at you specifically: So if he was more involved as people like to speculate, why wouldn't he own up to that as well? If he has this massive ego as people say, it seems to me he would want everyone to know who's in charge a la Jones in Dallas.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:27 PM   #23
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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I don't have a problem with an owner who wants to spend money. That's not the issue here. The difference is that there are owners who spend money on players that are recommended by hired hands who know football, and who can be trusted to make the right decisions with regard to player-personnel. Dan Snyder is an owner who has hired someone who has failed at player-personnel, and continues to take his advice. That's the problem.

And as long as Snyder defers to the judgement of Vinny Cerrato, Snyder will continue to take the criticism he so richly deserves. So the writer of this column is exactly right.

Apart from the 1999 team, (since he had no part in constructing it) there have been three 8-8 seasons, four losing seasons, and just two winning seasons with a couple of last place wildcard appearances. If he were to assume control of any other organization that had amassed those results he would have fired everyone from the top down. It's time for him to do the same of himself.
I am so confused?? Does Snyder defer to Cerrato, but Cerrato is Snyder's Yes man so Snyder must make the call, but he defers to Cerrato.
We have had growing pains with Snyder, but he was is and will be the BOA (best owner available) to the Redskins.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:28 PM   #24
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

hes not great but hes getting better. i think he made a good decision in jim zorn and hopefully zorn will have the time he needs to build his team
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:29 PM   #25
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
Handling contract negotiations is just one piece of the GM puzzle. He's always been clear that was his deal. So we can't say he hasn't been up front about his role in that regard.

This is just a general thought and not directed at you specifically: So if he was more involved as people like to speculate, why wouldn't he own up to that as well? If he has this massive ego as people say, it seems to me he would want everyone to know who's in charge a la Jones in Dallas.
I don't know if a 'massive ego' was ever the problem with Snyder. This is a guy who has been known to avoid the media, rarely give interviews, and be amongst the most highly secretive in the business.

As to his current involvement of the day to day operations of the football team, Vinny Cerrato, on his very own radio show, said that he is contact with Dan Snyder, "many, many, many times throughout the day." I would submit that this is the kind of frequency that is not seen between most general managers and owners.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:31 PM   #26
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
Handling contract negotiations is just one piece of the GM puzzle. He's always been clear that was his deal. So we can't say he hasn't been up front about his role in that regard.

This is just a general thought and not directed at you specifically: So if he was more involved as people like to speculate, why wouldn't he own up to that as well? If he has this massive ego as people say, it seems to me he would want everyone to know who's in charge a la Jones in Dallas.
That's a really good point. It makes total sense, I just for some reason hadn't thought of it that way.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:32 PM   #27
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
i will never bitch about Snyder. i think we are all in agreement he wants to win. and i would much rather have an owner that spends money, although maybe not the right way, then one who sits back and pretty much does nothing. perfect example is Jason Taylor. Phil Daniels gets injured late, and the skins definitely need a defensive end. so Snyder goes out and fills a need. was it the right move? probably not. but he did what he thought was right.
In some ways I think that DS not being afraid to spend $ is counter-productive. IMO if DS was a bit tighter fisted it would "force" the Skins into have to be more focused and rely more on the draft which IMO would provide a stronger foundation for the team.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:34 PM   #28
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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I don't know if a 'massive ego' was ever the problem with Snyder. This is a guy who has been known to avoid the media, rarely give interviews, and be amongst the most highly secretive in the business.

As to his current involvement of the day to day operations of the football team, Vinny Cerrato, on his very own radio show, said that he is contact with Dan Snyder, "many, many, many times throughout the day." I would submit that this is the kind of frequency that is not seen between most general managers and owners.
I'm sure the level of involvement of owners around the league varies greatly. But considering that Snyder and Vinny have more than just a business relationship and are friends, that probably explains the constant contact.

And again, nobody is denying that Snyder is involved. It's the level of involvement that is highly debatable.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:36 PM   #29
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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he will when he wins Matty
!00% correct. Why would he want to crow about the mediocre teams the Skins keep putting on the field?
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:37 PM   #30
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Again, he will when he wins. Would you at 8-8?
Well, he's up front about his involvement in contract negotations and we all know that some of the deals he's handed out have been "questionable" to say the least. So why is he taking credit for that but not personnel decisions, if he is indeed making them as some say?
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