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The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Old 01-12-2009, 02:39 PM   #31
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
Well, he's up front about his involvement in contract negotations and we all know that some of the deals he's handed out have been "questionable" to say the least. So why is he taking credit for that but not personnel decisions, if he is indeed making them as some say?
Contract decisions are one thing, evaluating players is totally different. If the player is a bust then he's just signing checks.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:42 PM   #32
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Again, he will when he wins. Would you at 8-8?
No, but Jerry Jones hasn't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons, he knows people are super-skeptical of his meddlesome role(s) with the Cowgirls, yet he still publicly flexes his owner/GM/pseudo-head coach muscles every chance he gets.

You don't see any of that from Danny, despite being such a supposed "ego-maniac." I think that was the point Matty was driving at.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:43 PM   #33
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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I am so confused?? Does Snyder defer to Cerrato, but Cerrato is Snyder's Yes man so Snyder must make the call, but he defers to Cerrato.
We have had growing pains with Snyder, but he was is and will be the BOA (best owner available) to the Redskins.
I never used the term "yes man". Maybe Cerrato is, maybe he isn't. Whether Snyder today is as consumed with assembling the roster as he was in 2000 with the Bruce Smith, Jeff George, and Deion acquisitions is anyone's guess.

The fact remains, this partnership, however one chooses to define it's structure or chain of command, has a losing record. And not counting Marty's year, there have been the same two guys at the helm of this ship. As for the 'best owner available', you may be right. But the key word there is 'available'.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:45 PM   #34
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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In some ways I think that DS not being afraid to spend $ is counter-productive. IMO if DS was a bit tighter fisted it would "force" the Skins into have to be more focused and rely more on the draft which IMO would provide a stronger foundation for the team.

That's true. Excellent point.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:52 PM   #35
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

The only thing that keeps Snyder from being a great owner is his relationship with Vinny. His unwillingness to fire Vinny and hire a better personel man is what holds the team back. Even Jerry Jones has won when he has had Bill Parcels or Jimmy Johnson next to him helping him be a GM. Snyder has never had that because he sticks with Vinny. Basically...his involvement is not the problem...it's who he's involved with.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:56 PM   #36
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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No, but Jerry Jones hasn't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons, he knows people are super-skeptical of his meddlesome role(s) with the Cowgirls, yet he still publicly flexes his owner/GM/pseudo-head coach muscles every chance he gets.

You don't see any of that from Danny, despite being such a supposed "ego-maniac." I think that was the point Matty was driving at.
Hasnt done shit?! Havent the Girls won a few Super Bowls with him as owner or is my time line off?
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:57 PM   #37
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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I'm sure the level of involvement of owners around the league varies greatly. But considering that Snyder and Vinny have more than just a business relationship and are friends, that probably explains the constant contact.

And again, nobody is denying that Snyder is involved. It's the level of involvement that is highly debatable.
This is not directed at you, it is more of just a general point.

People who choose to defend Vinny and Danny always want to turn the discussion into a 'level of involvement' and 'we can not tell who made this move or that move. We really cannot tell who is in charge so we can not blame Vinny and Danny.'
But yet we can see by the teams performance on the field in 2008 that this team's FO did not do a "great job".
We have not been a consistent winner under Snyder's ownership. Bottom line that is the measure of the FO. Our FO has not performed well regardless of who is to blame.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:01 PM   #38
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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This is not directed at you, it is more of just a general point.

People who choose to defend Vinny and Danny always want to turn the discussion into a 'level of involvement' and 'we can not tell who made this move or that move. We really cannot tell who is in charge so we can not blame Vinny and Danny.'
But yet we can see by the teams performance on the field in 2008 that this team's FO did not do a "great job".
We have not been a consistent winner under Snyder's ownership. Bottom line that is the measure of the FO. Our FO has not performed well regardless of who is to blame.
I agree. The strange thing is that Skins fans view DS or VC in charge instead of Zorn. In every other NFL city I have lived in the coach is the one who is in charge and the owner/GM are these guys in the background that are rarely ever in the news. When the Skins finally allow the coach to be the one in charge the organizatiion will be better off.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:02 PM   #39
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Hasnt done shit?! Havent the Girls won a few Super Bowls with him as owner or is my time line off?
They haven't won a playoff game since 1996. That's 12 or 13 seasons, or is my math off?? So yeah, I'll repeat myself, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys haven't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons.

The Redskins have won 3 Super Bowls as a franchise. Only an idiot fan would bring up those past victories as a defense for criticism of the current situation. Same goes for Dallas.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:05 PM   #40
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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They haven't won a playoff game since 1996. That's 12 or 13 seasons, or is my math off?? So yeah, I'll repeat myself, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys haven't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons.

The Redskins have won 3 Super Bowls as a franchise. Only an idiot fan would bring up those past victories as a defense for criticism of the current situation. Same goes for Dallas.
Well it was also JJ who won 3 SB's running the team as he does today so he has had success.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:06 PM   #41
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Great point, kind of. But the argument revolves around Snyders involvment. Parcells or JJ. Would come here because of it. Which adds to the original argument.
Snyder is very persuasive when it comes to getting people to work for him so i don't think that is as big an issue as people make it out to be. What Snyder will have to give to get those type of people is final say over personel decisions and as long as Vinny is around he can't give that. No one really knows Snyders true involvement, but my only point is that his involvement on any level would not be a big deal if he were bouncing his ideas off of more compitent people.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:06 PM   #42
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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I agree. The strange thing is that Skins fans view DS or VC in charge instead of Zorn. In every other NFL city I have lived in the coach is the one who is in charge and the owner/GM are these guys in the background that are rarely ever in the news. When the Skins finally allow the coach to be the one in charge the organizatiion will be better off.
At some point someone in this organization needs to stand up and say the buck stops here. There is no leader. The Dolphins are run by Parcells. We are run by committee?

The only constant in this originzation since Snyder took over as owner is:
1) Vinny and Danny at or near the top except for one year.
2) We have not been a consistent performing team.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:10 PM   #43
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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...and I still maintain that even during Gibbs 2.0, the man most directly responsible for the content of the roster was and is Vinny Cerrato.
Well you'd be wrong unless you have some proof that everything ever said during that time was a lie. Gibbs was team rpesident. Plain and simple. Vinny was a glorified director of scouting. If you want to base our acquisitions upon poor scouting then lay it at VC feet for the evaluations but it still took Gibbs' signoff to draft/pick up a player in EVERY SINGLE CASE.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:12 PM   #44
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Well it was also JJ who won 3 SB's running the team as he does today so he has had success.
Dallas Vikings.....that was the only smart thing JJ's done (and it was actually Jimmy Johnson not Jerry Jones, who masterminded it.

Herschel Walker trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the talent the Cowgirls have had since then they should be at 8 or 9 SB wins by now.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:14 PM   #45
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Well it was also JJ who won 3 SB's running the team as he does today so he has had success.
I never said he hasn't been successful, I just said he hasn't done shit for 12 or 13 years. Over that span, Jones has become increasingly meddlesome/hands on. And, if I'm not mistaken, he and Jimmy Johnson (who won those Super Bowls) parted ways because Jones couldn't leave well enough alone and insisted on constantly having his hand in the cookie jar.
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