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The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Old 01-12-2009, 03:15 PM   #46
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Originally Posted by GMScud View Post
They haven't won a playoff game since 1996. That's 12 or 13 seasons, or is my math off?? So yeah, I'll repeat myself, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys haven't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons.

The Redskins have won 3 Super Bowls as a franchise. Only an idiot fan would bring up those past victories as a defense for criticism of the current situation. Same goes for Dallas.
Your time line is correct but Dallas has won Super Bowls under Jerry Jones. The Skins havent won anything under DS.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:16 PM   #47
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Well you'd be wrong unless you have some proof that everything ever said during that time was a lie. Gibbs was team rpesident. Plain and simple. Vinny was a glorified director of scouting. If you want to base our acquisitions upon poor scouting then lay it at VC feet for the evaluations but it still took Gibbs' signoff to draft/pick up a player in EVERY SINGLE CASE.
True Gibbs had final say but he was still deciding off of recomendations from his scouting department that was run by Vinny. If you recomend 3 bad ideas to me and I pick one then who's fault was it really?

Gibbs is a great coach but he never had a track record of good personel decisions...his biggest mistake in the 2nd go around was not insisting that Danny get him a real GM. But in truth Gibbs probably felt he could do it and was comfortable not having a GM on more equal footing with him like inthe old days.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:24 PM   #48
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

I must say that when I read this article, I thought to myself "what else is new?" I think many media outlets have mentioned this issue with Snyder...one of them (I believe) being Michael Wilbon. While it makes some good point, this article is stating the obvious. I think Snyder has made some strides, and is slowly letting go. Making Cerrato the football boss was a step, though I do know that some people find Vinny to be a Snyder "yes man", but that has yet to be seen.

A big test for DS' ownership will come at the end of the 2009 season, if the Redskins have the same type of record or a losing season, will Snyder fire the trigger? I think a situation like this will let us know whether Snyder did pull back and allow Vinny to run things, or whether he has secretly continued to be involved.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #49
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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This article is largely based on the assumption that Snyder is the "General Manager" of the team. Ok. Look, clearly Snyder has input. He's the owner of the team, why shouldn't he. But he also has ceded considerable decision making and football responsibilities since his first year as team owner. But some don't want to accept that because the Lombardi Trophies haven't been rolling in at the same rate the money is rolling out.
We know Snyder hires assistant coaches for his head coach. It strains credulity to imagine that he isn't also making personnel decisions.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #50
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Gotta say I strongly disagree with this assumption that Snyder is GM'ing the team. He has definitely stepped back in recent years to the point now where I honestly think his input on personnel is pretty limited.

Smootsmack sums things up pretty well above.
I don't think so. At all. Vinny is 'making the decision' and where do you think Vinny comes up with his decisions? I think the Redskins PR machine likes to have people believe that Danny is out of the loops of sorts, but that is bull crap to the max and NFL insiders know it as well. For God sakes, we had head coaching candidates having slumber parties at the Snyder mansion.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #51
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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When the cap comes off it's going to be fun having Snyder around.
That's what Yankees fans have been thinking for the past 8 years.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:29 PM   #52
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

Snyders fingerprints continue to be all over this team. The article did an excellent job of pointing out the main problem with Snyder being a bad GM. However as to why Snyder is a bad GM, well I blame his obseccion with creating a high powered passing game, on top of the "being a GM is fun idea." I'd add that Snyder thinks "being the GM of a team with a high powered attack is fun."

And now the evidence:

- Hired Spurrier because he wanted a great passing game

- Drafted Ramsey because he wanted a QB to run the passing game

- At the very least, influenced Vinny to the point where the team grabbed three pass catchers in the second round

- Brought in Zorn to run the West Coast Offense while keeping the running game

- Hired Saunders in part because of his connection with the greatest show on turf. Of course his background with Gibbs helped to.

- Was involved in the circle that brought in JC with a first round pick though this ones more on Gibbs in my mind

- Since he has owned the Redskins the team has acquired Taylor Jacobs, Cliff Russell, ARE, Brandon Lloyd, D. Thomas, M. Kelly, L. Coles, and S. Moss. I would add Rod Gardner to the list but that was Marty's call. To those of you counting at home thats 6 draft picks used on Recievers since 2002. In the meantime we have gone after Braylon Edwards (before the draft), Charles Rogers (before the draft), Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson (before the draft), Chad Johnson, A. Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, and Roy Williams. This team, this front office, is way to commited to finding recievers and as a result we've seen our front lines crumble. And with the recent success of the Arizona Cardinals I see Snyder grabing hold of an out to continue to try and build a passing game at the expense of the front lines.

However one of my biggest problems as of late with Snyder trying to build through the air is that in our division and location it's not exactly practical. Is it possible? Of course, history proves that. However history also proves that our best bet at being a winner is playing smash mouth football. I mean look at the facts. We play in a location where it gets cold near the end of the year. On top of that our division opponents play in cold weather locations, save Dallas. It's common sense that passing games function better in warm weather. I mean hell our passing game was fine this year when the temperature was in the low 90's high 80's.

Another problem is our division is full of teams equipped to rush the passer. The Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants all have the ability to get after the Quarterback. Why on Earth would we be trying to build this super awesome passing game? I mean theres a reason that every team in the NFC East is good at running the ball, because where we play, running the ball is not a luxury, it's an element of survival (in the football sense of course).

So until Snyder stops daydreaming about the Rams during the early part of the decade we will continue to go downhill.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:30 PM   #53
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Wasn't it Snyder that started negotiating with Lance Briggs with out notifying Gibbs? Hasn't Snyder personally handled contract negotiations with some players? Wouldn't by definition make him at least co-GM?
That's all correct.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:32 PM   #54
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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I don't have a problem with an owner who wants to spend money. That's not the issue here. The difference is that there are owners who spend money on players that are recommended by hired hands who know football, and who can be trusted to make the right decisions with regard to player-personnel. Dan Snyder is an owner who has hired someone who has failed at player-personnel, and continues to take his advice. That's the problem.
This is precisely correct.

Look at the Steelers. The Rooney's don't spend money the way Snyder does, but who wins more games. Money spent well goes a lot farther than money spent extravagantly.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:34 PM   #55
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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If he has this massive ego as people say, it seems to me he would want everyone to know who's in charge a la Jones in Dallas.
Because the team is lousy. If the Redskins ever win a Super Bowl with Snyder as GM [ha!], believe me, we'll hear about nothing else for years. But we don't have to worry about that ever happening.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:36 PM   #56
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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You don't see any of that from Danny, despite being such a supposed "ego-maniac." I think that was the point Matty was driving at.
Someone who believes he is qualified to do things he clearly isn't qualified to do fits my definition of an egomaniac. Or someone suffering from delusions.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:39 PM   #57
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

Look, one of the points of my article is that Jones and Snyder do many things the same way. Jones is more of a media hound than Snyder, but that doesn't make Snyder less egotistical. He's probably just more sensitive to criticism. One thing you can say for Jones is that he's out in front of the franchise so that when things go poorly, he can't dodge the critics or fob it off on a hireling like Vinny Cerrato. Jones takes the slings and arrows. Snyder doesn't like to do that so he hides.

Jones hasn't done much as the GM of the Cowboys. Jones won 3 Super Bowls with Jimmy Johnson's players. As free agency broke that gang up, the team declined and Jones hasn't been able to do much about it. He's a lousy GM. So is Snyder.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:42 PM   #58
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag
Hired Spurrier because he wanted a great passing game
Ok, but let's not forget that Spurrier was a highly sought after coach, it's not like only the Redskins were after him

Quote:
Drafted Ramsey because he wanted a QB to run the passing game
Mistake for sure

Quote:
At the very least, influenced Vinny to the point where the team grabbed three pass catchers in the second round
Are you just guessing here?

Quote:
Brought in Zorn to run the West Coast Offense while keeping the running game
Don't understand what you're trying to say here

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Hired Saunders in part because of his connection with the greatest show on turf. Of course his background with Gibbs helped to.
Of course, when he was hired. Everyone said "Finally, some modern help for old man Gibbs"

Quote:
Was involved in the circle that brought in JC with a first round pick though this ones more on Gibbs in my mind
You got have a QB, jury still out though on whether the investment was worth it

Quote:
Since he has owned the Redskins the team has acquired Taylor Jacobs, Cliff Russell, ARE, Brandon Lloyd, D. Thomas, M. Kelly, L. Coles, and S. Moss. I would add Rod Gardner to the list but that was Marty's call. To those of you counting at home thats 6 draft picks used on Recievers since 2002. In the meantime we have gone after Braylon Edwards (before the draft), Charles Rogers (before the draft), Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson (before the draft), Chad Johnson, A. Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, and Roy Williams. This team, this front office, is way to commited to finding recievers and as a result we've seen our front lines crumble. And with the recent success of the Arizona Cardinals I see Snyder grabing hold of an out to continue to try and build a passing game at the expense of the front lines.
I don't understand the point of mentioning only WRs we've allegedly gone after, while not mentioning linemen we've allegedly gone after
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:44 PM   #59
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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We know Snyder hires assistant coaches for his head coach. It strains credulity to imagine that he isn't also making personnel decisions.
Cerrato made the hires, and really it was only one or two new hires. Most were just retaining the current staff.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:55 PM   #60
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

Ok, but let's not forget that Spurrier was a highly sought after coach, it's not like only the Redskins were after him

My main point in all of this was that the object of Snyders affection is a high flying passing attack. In citing the moves I'm trying to demonstrate that Snyder led teams will bend over backwards while ignoring needs elsewhere, namely the front lines, to bring in WR's, QB's, RB's, and TE's. Yes Spurrier was a highly sought after coach but he still fits the profile of Snyders Passing Fancy.

Are you just guessing here?

Yes, but in my defense I find it hard to believe that the three highest rated players available when the Redskins picked were Two Recievers and a Tight End. Especially after pimping our first round pick for a top tier reciever before the draft. It all goes back to my point that Snyder would rather loose with 300 yard passing games then win with a Marty Ball type offense.

You got have a QB, jury still out though on whether the investment was worth it

Agreed. But again more passing while getting less help up front.

I don't understand the point of mentioning only WRs we've allegedly gone after, while not mentioning linemen we've allegedly gone after

I'll get back to that after class but still a fair point.
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