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The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Old 01-12-2009, 03:02 PM   #46
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Originally Posted by irish View Post
Hasnt done shit?! Havent the Girls won a few Super Bowls with him as owner or is my time line off?
They haven't won a playoff game since 1996. That's 12 or 13 seasons, or is my math off?? So yeah, I'll repeat myself, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys haven't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons.

The Redskins have won 3 Super Bowls as a franchise. Only an idiot fan would bring up those past victories as a defense for criticism of the current situation. Same goes for Dallas.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:06 PM   #47
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Great point, kind of. But the argument revolves around Snyders involvment. Parcells or JJ. Would come here because of it. Which adds to the original argument.
Snyder is very persuasive when it comes to getting people to work for him so i don't think that is as big an issue as people make it out to be. What Snyder will have to give to get those type of people is final say over personel decisions and as long as Vinny is around he can't give that. No one really knows Snyders true involvement, but my only point is that his involvement on any level would not be a big deal if he were bouncing his ideas off of more compitent people.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:06 PM   #48
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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I agree. The strange thing is that Skins fans view DS or VC in charge instead of Zorn. In every other NFL city I have lived in the coach is the one who is in charge and the owner/GM are these guys in the background that are rarely ever in the news. When the Skins finally allow the coach to be the one in charge the organizatiion will be better off.
At some point someone in this organization needs to stand up and say the buck stops here. There is no leader. The Dolphins are run by Parcells. We are run by committee?

The only constant in this originzation since Snyder took over as owner is:
1) Vinny and Danny at or near the top except for one year.
2) We have not been a consistent performing team.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:10 PM   #49
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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...and I still maintain that even during Gibbs 2.0, the man most directly responsible for the content of the roster was and is Vinny Cerrato.
Well you'd be wrong unless you have some proof that everything ever said during that time was a lie. Gibbs was team rpesident. Plain and simple. Vinny was a glorified director of scouting. If you want to base our acquisitions upon poor scouting then lay it at VC feet for the evaluations but it still took Gibbs' signoff to draft/pick up a player in EVERY SINGLE CASE.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:12 PM   #50
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Well it was also JJ who won 3 SB's running the team as he does today so he has had success.
Dallas Vikings.....that was the only smart thing JJ's done (and it was actually Jimmy Johnson not Jerry Jones, who masterminded it.

Herschel Walker trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the talent the Cowgirls have had since then they should be at 8 or 9 SB wins by now.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:14 PM   #51
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Well it was also JJ who won 3 SB's running the team as he does today so he has had success.
I never said he hasn't been successful, I just said he hasn't done shit for 12 or 13 years. Over that span, Jones has become increasingly meddlesome/hands on. And, if I'm not mistaken, he and Jimmy Johnson (who won those Super Bowls) parted ways because Jones couldn't leave well enough alone and insisted on constantly having his hand in the cookie jar.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:14 PM   #52
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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No, but Jerry Jones hasn't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons, he knows people are super-skeptical of his meddlesome role(s) with the Cowgirls, yet he still publicly flexes his owner/GM/pseudo-head coach muscles every chance he gets.

You don't see any of that from Danny, despite being such a supposed "ego-maniac." I think that was the point Matty was driving at.
I know GMScud, and Matty's point is valid since none of us know. As far as Jerry Jones is concerned, he can't deny anything. The way he's on the field during games and talking in the players ears is really putting it out there. No doubt Snyder is more reserved in that manner

What I'm saying is there's no denying it with Jerry. Where Snyder is more reserved in public.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:15 PM   #53
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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They haven't won a playoff game since 1996. That's 12 or 13 seasons, or is my math off?? So yeah, I'll repeat myself, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys haven't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons.

The Redskins have won 3 Super Bowls as a franchise. Only an idiot fan would bring up those past victories as a defense for criticism of the current situation. Same goes for Dallas.
Your time line is correct but Dallas has won Super Bowls under Jerry Jones. The Skins havent won anything under DS.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:16 PM   #54
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Well you'd be wrong unless you have some proof that everything ever said during that time was a lie. Gibbs was team rpesident. Plain and simple. Vinny was a glorified director of scouting. If you want to base our acquisitions upon poor scouting then lay it at VC feet for the evaluations but it still took Gibbs' signoff to draft/pick up a player in EVERY SINGLE CASE.
True Gibbs had final say but he was still deciding off of recomendations from his scouting department that was run by Vinny. If you recomend 3 bad ideas to me and I pick one then who's fault was it really?

Gibbs is a great coach but he never had a track record of good personel decisions...his biggest mistake in the 2nd go around was not insisting that Danny get him a real GM. But in truth Gibbs probably felt he could do it and was comfortable not having a GM on more equal footing with him like inthe old days.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:24 PM   #55
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

I must say that when I read this article, I thought to myself "what else is new?" I think many media outlets have mentioned this issue with Snyder...one of them (I believe) being Michael Wilbon. While it makes some good point, this article is stating the obvious. I think Snyder has made some strides, and is slowly letting go. Making Cerrato the football boss was a step, though I do know that some people find Vinny to be a Snyder "yes man", but that has yet to be seen.

A big test for DS' ownership will come at the end of the 2009 season, if the Redskins have the same type of record or a losing season, will Snyder fire the trigger? I think a situation like this will let us know whether Snyder did pull back and allow Vinny to run things, or whether he has secretly continued to be involved.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #56
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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This article is largely based on the assumption that Snyder is the "General Manager" of the team. Ok. Look, clearly Snyder has input. He's the owner of the team, why shouldn't he. But he also has ceded considerable decision making and football responsibilities since his first year as team owner. But some don't want to accept that because the Lombardi Trophies haven't been rolling in at the same rate the money is rolling out.
We know Snyder hires assistant coaches for his head coach. It strains credulity to imagine that he isn't also making personnel decisions.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #57
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Gotta say I strongly disagree with this assumption that Snyder is GM'ing the team. He has definitely stepped back in recent years to the point now where I honestly think his input on personnel is pretty limited.

Smootsmack sums things up pretty well above.
I don't think so. At all. Vinny is 'making the decision' and where do you think Vinny comes up with his decisions? I think the Redskins PR machine likes to have people believe that Danny is out of the loops of sorts, but that is bull crap to the max and NFL insiders know it as well. For God sakes, we had head coaching candidates having slumber parties at the Snyder mansion.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #58
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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When the cap comes off it's going to be fun having Snyder around.
That's what Yankees fans have been thinking for the past 8 years.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:29 PM   #59
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

Snyders fingerprints continue to be all over this team. The article did an excellent job of pointing out the main problem with Snyder being a bad GM. However as to why Snyder is a bad GM, well I blame his obseccion with creating a high powered passing game, on top of the "being a GM is fun idea." I'd add that Snyder thinks "being the GM of a team with a high powered attack is fun."

And now the evidence:

- Hired Spurrier because he wanted a great passing game

- Drafted Ramsey because he wanted a QB to run the passing game

- At the very least, influenced Vinny to the point where the team grabbed three pass catchers in the second round

- Brought in Zorn to run the West Coast Offense while keeping the running game

- Hired Saunders in part because of his connection with the greatest show on turf. Of course his background with Gibbs helped to.

- Was involved in the circle that brought in JC with a first round pick though this ones more on Gibbs in my mind

- Since he has owned the Redskins the team has acquired Taylor Jacobs, Cliff Russell, ARE, Brandon Lloyd, D. Thomas, M. Kelly, L. Coles, and S. Moss. I would add Rod Gardner to the list but that was Marty's call. To those of you counting at home thats 6 draft picks used on Recievers since 2002. In the meantime we have gone after Braylon Edwards (before the draft), Charles Rogers (before the draft), Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson (before the draft), Chad Johnson, A. Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, and Roy Williams. This team, this front office, is way to commited to finding recievers and as a result we've seen our front lines crumble. And with the recent success of the Arizona Cardinals I see Snyder grabing hold of an out to continue to try and build a passing game at the expense of the front lines.

However one of my biggest problems as of late with Snyder trying to build through the air is that in our division and location it's not exactly practical. Is it possible? Of course, history proves that. However history also proves that our best bet at being a winner is playing smash mouth football. I mean look at the facts. We play in a location where it gets cold near the end of the year. On top of that our division opponents play in cold weather locations, save Dallas. It's common sense that passing games function better in warm weather. I mean hell our passing game was fine this year when the temperature was in the low 90's high 80's.

Another problem is our division is full of teams equipped to rush the passer. The Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants all have the ability to get after the Quarterback. Why on Earth would we be trying to build this super awesome passing game? I mean theres a reason that every team in the NFC East is good at running the ball, because where we play, running the ball is not a luxury, it's an element of survival (in the football sense of course).

So until Snyder stops daydreaming about the Rams during the early part of the decade we will continue to go downhill.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:30 PM   #60
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Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

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Wasn't it Snyder that started negotiating with Lance Briggs with out notifying Gibbs? Hasn't Snyder personally handled contract negotiations with some players? Wouldn't by definition make him at least co-GM?
That's all correct.
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