The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

Paintrain · 01-12-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

However one of my biggest problems as of late with Snyder trying to build through the air is that in our division and location it's not exactly practical. Is it possible? Of course, history proves that. However history also proves that our best bet at being a winner is playing smash mouth football. I mean look at the facts. We play in a location where it gets cold near the end of the year. On top of that our division opponents play in cold weather locations, save Dallas. It's common sense that passing games function better in warm weather. I mean hell our passing game was fine this year when the temperature was in the low 90's high 80's.

Another problem is our division is full of teams equipped to rush the passer. The Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants all have the ability to get after the Quarterback. Why on Earth would we be trying to build this super awesome passing game? I mean theres a reason that every team in the NFC East is good at running the ball, because where we play, running the ball is not a luxury, it's an element of survival (in the football sense of course).

So until Snyder stops daydreaming about the Rams during the early part of the decade we will continue to go downhill.

The legend of 'smashmouth football' is a past it's time. The team that has dominiated the NFC East for a decade has been the Eagles, a team that passes no less than 60% of the time. We've got to get away from our past and the 'pound the rock' mentality. The Hogs, Riggo, Joey T, Coach Gibbs are all the past, the present and future is winning through the air. By the way, New England plays in a cold weather area, how did their passing game fare the past few years? They've never been a running team and I think for the most part they did OK the past decade.

While Spurrier was a joke of a head coach, I'd bet as an offensive coordinator he'd be damn successful. Points are scored in the passing game in today's NFL. We've tried to get with the times but we've failed miserably at establishing franchise cornerstones at two positions, QB and #1 WR. Yes the lines are very important, but two teams with terrible OL this season were the Steelers and Cardinals. How did that work out for them? They have however elite QB and a legitimate #1 WR. You can get away with less than elite OL if you are elite at other positions. We're not elite anywhere, merely 'good' at a few spots.

Skinny Tee · 01-12-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I think the article is well written. I appreciate what others have said about DS stepping back on decisions and letting Vinny take over. Yet I can't be totally convinced that Vinny's not making decisions w/Snyder in his ear. Two wr's & a TE in last year's draft smells of danny influence. Was Jason Taylor all Vinny's decision (for the record I like the deal at the time, but a 2nd was awful high).

Also, Vinny seems to be our GM because of his close relation to Snyder and not because of his GM prowess. Since he seems like a minion of Snyder, the owner's personel tiebreaker rule sounds absurd:

"If Vinny and the head coach can't decide between a player then Danny decides."

Danny can set himself up to make any decision he wants to by making Vinny contest a personel decision with the head coach. Vinny doesn't seem to be strong enough in his own football convictions that he would stand up to Danny. Vinny and Danny don't seem to butt heads enough in lite of the football personel moves we've been making. Since Vinny is still with the team I think that it is evident that Danny still plays a large part in the personel moves.

SmootSmack · 01-12-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

Also, Vinny seems to be our GM because of his close relation to Snyder and not because of his GM prowess. Since he seems like a minion of Snyder, the owner's personel tiebreaker rule sounds absurd:

"If Vinny and the head coach can't decide between a player then Danny decides."

Danny can set himself up to make any decision he wants to by making Vinny contest a personel decision with the head coach. Vinny doesn't seem to be strong enough in his own football convictions that he would stand up to Danny. Vinny and Danny don't seem to butt heads enough in lite of the football personel moves we've been making. Since Vinny is still with the team I think that it is evident that Danny still plays a large part in the personel moves.

Yeah, that's so unheard of.

"If there's a trade or a signing or a move Gibbs and General Manager Charley Casserly want to make, they explain it to Cooke. If Gibbs and Casserly disagree, they each make their cases to Cooke, who serves as arbitrator."

WashingtonPost.com: Cooke, Gibbs Forge Friendship, Winning Ways

redsk1 · 01-12-2009, 04:56 PM

The real thing w/ me is that we should have a great organization if DS does the right things:

Getting a Football guy to run our front office

Getting a young talented football coach for our team that meshes w/ our new Gm

Lot's of money to spend frugally

The combination of wise decisions and the ability to spend some money should put us right at the top of the NFC East year in a year out.

firstdown · 01-12-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Ok, but let's not forget that Spurrier was a highly sought after coach, it's not like only the Redskins were after him

My main point in all of this was that the object of Snyders affection is a high flying passing attack. In citing the moves I'm trying to demonstrate that Snyder led teams will bend over backwards while ignoring needs elsewhere, namely the front lines, to bring in WR's, QB's, RB's, and TE's. Yes Spurrier was a highly sought after coach but he still fits the profile of Snyders Passing Fancy.

Are you just guessing here?

Yes, but in my defense I find it hard to believe that the three highest rated players available when the Redskins picked were Two Recievers and a Tight End. Especially after pimping our first round pick for a top tier reciever before the draft. It all goes back to my point that Snyder would rather loose with 300 yard passing games then win with a Marty Ball type offense.

You got have a QB, jury still out though on whether the investment was worth it

Agreed. But again more passing while getting less help up front.

I don't understand the point of mentioning only WRs we've allegedly gone after, while not mentioning linemen we've allegedly gone after

I'll get back to that after class but still a fair point.

Yea we saw that high flying O this year and Snyder stayed with Zorn so your argument does not hold up. Also last year we had several linemen we wanted that were gone by our pick.

GMScud · 01-12-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Yeah, that's so unheard of.

"If there's a trade or a signing or a move Gibbs and General Manager Charley Casserly want to make, they explain it to Cooke. If Gibbs and Casserly disagree, they each make their cases to Cooke, who serves as arbitrator."

WashingtonPost.com: Cooke, Gibbs Forge Friendship, Winning Ways

Wow, that's a nice find. Good article.

Ruhskins · 01-12-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Yeah, that's so unheard of.

"If there's a trade or a signing or a move Gibbs and General Manager Charley Casserly want to make, they explain it to Cooke. If Gibbs and Casserly disagree, they each make their cases to Cooke, who serves as arbitrator."

WashingtonPost.com: Cooke, Gibbs Forge Friendship, Winning Ways

Ah 1991, our last hurrah as a successful team.

firstdown · 01-12-2009, 05:23 PM

This is from the article. "Bill Cowher refused to work for Snyder for the same reason."
So when did Snyder interview Bill Cowher or was this just made up? Even if it is true Cowher has refused to coach any team until 2010 so the statement is still stupid.

The Goat · 01-12-2009, 05:25 PM

There's a forest through the trees view that is being ignored IMHO. It is debatable whether Snyder is the last say on GM duties i.e. whether he is truly responsible for the decade+ of mediocrity despite spending crazy money. As fans we can go rounds on this point from here to kingdom come and probably never agree to disagree...

What is nearly incontrovertable at this point in time is that very good coaches do not want to work for Snyder or the Redskins and to me this is what matters most. Spags will be a great coach somewhere, he didn't like what he saw in Snyder and for that Snyder acted like an insecure little child. My best intuition is that beyond Zorn we will not see a guy of character as HC for a very long time to come (even if Danny changed his stupid ways). Snyder deserves it. We don't.

The Goat · 01-12-2009, 05:32 PM

... also one could rehash the whole GD travesty surrounding Gregg Williams... I've beat that horse dead a few times already and won't repeat my same old blatherings but it is still significant IMO (if for no other reason that Williams is extremely well respected around the league and it's obvious to all but a few he was smeared by Snyder and/or his people). I mean really, does anyone think the great coaches should have any respect for Snyder or want to give him a chance?

SmootSmack · 01-12-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

There's a forest through the trees view that is being ignored IMHO. It is debatable whether Snyder is the last say on GM duties i.e. whether he is truly responsible for the decade+ of mediocrity despite spending crazy money. As fans we can go rounds on this point from here to kingdom come and probably never agree to disagree...

What is nearly incontrovertable at this point in time is that very good coaches do not want to work for Snyder or the Redskins and to me this is what matters most. Spags will be a great coach somewhere, he didn't like what he saw in Snyder and for that Snyder acted like an insecure little child. My best intuition is that beyond Zorn we will not see a guy of character as HC for a very long time to come (even if Danny changed his stupid ways). Snyder deserves it. We don't.

Spags has already been passed up a couple of times for head coaching jobs this offseason, and he probably will be passed up a few more times.

He may be a good head coach one day, but let's not go crowning him before he's earned anything. As a head coach, he has done nothing, I'll repeat NOTHING, that Zorn hasn't already.

The Goat · 01-12-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Spags has already been passed up a couple of times for head coaching jobs this offseason, and he probably will be passed up a few more times.

He may be a good head coach one day, but let's not go crowning him before he's earned anything. As a head coach, he has done nothing, I'll repeat NOTHING, that Zorn hasn't already.

good point

Paintrain · 01-12-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

... also one could rehash the whole GD travesty surrounding Gregg Williams... I've beat that horse dead a few times already and won't repeat my same old blatherings but it is still significant IMO (if for no other reason that Williams is extremely well respected around the league and it's obvious to all but a few he was smeared by Snyder and/or his people). I mean really, does anyone think the great coaches should have any respect for Snyder or want to give him a chance?

What travesty is that? Did the Snyder smear cause him to get fired in Jacksonville also? The legend of GW is greatly exaggerated. He did a nice job statistically a few seasons, but we were never a game changing defense. Never had a lot of sacks, turnovers or defensive TD, things that actually matter on the field rather than in the paper.

SmootSmack · 01-12-2009, 06:07 PM

I think the original post made some valid points and there are definite mistakes with the Snyder era, but it's hard to truly take it seriously when the summary is Snyder bought the team to be General Manager.

Hog1 · 01-12-2009, 06:09 PM

stop with your truth and logic already!!!

01-12-2009, 04:56 PM	#64
redsk1 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,351	Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ... The real thing w/ me is that we should have a great organization if DS does the right things: Getting a Football guy to run our front office Getting a young talented football coach for our team that meshes w/ our new Gm Lot's of money to spend frugally The combination of wise decisions and the ability to spend some money should put us right at the top of the NFC East year in a year out.

01-12-2009, 05:23 PM	#68
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 49 Posts: 15,189	Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ... This is from the article. "Bill Cowher refused to work for Snyder for the same reason." So when did Snyder interview Bill Cowher or was this just made up? Even if it is true Cowher has refused to coach any team until 2010 so the statement is still stupid.

01-12-2009, 05:25 PM	#69
The Goat Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,021	Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ... There's a forest through the trees view that is being ignored IMHO. It is debatable whether Snyder is the last say on GM duties i.e. whether he is truly responsible for the decade+ of mediocrity despite spending crazy money. As fans we can go rounds on this point from here to kingdom come and probably never agree to disagree... What is nearly incontrovertable at this point in time is that very good coaches do not want to work for Snyder or the Redskins and to me this is what matters most. Spags will be a great coach somewhere, he didn't like what he saw in Snyder and for that Snyder acted like an insecure little child. My best intuition is that beyond Zorn we will not see a guy of character as HC for a very long time to come (even if Danny changed his stupid ways). Snyder deserves it. We don't. __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes he eats you.

01-12-2009, 05:32 PM	#70
The Goat Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,021	Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ... ... also one could rehash the whole GD travesty surrounding Gregg Williams... I've beat that horse dead a few times already and won't repeat my same old blatherings but it is still significant IMO (if for no other reason that Williams is extremely well respected around the league and it's obvious to all but a few he was smeared by Snyder and/or his people). I mean really, does anyone think the great coaches should have any respect for Snyder or want to give him a chance? __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes he eats you.

01-12-2009, 06:07 PM	#74
SmootSmack Mad Men Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,099	Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ... I think the original post made some valid points and there are definite mistakes with the Snyder era, but it's hard to truly take it seriously when the summary is Snyder bought the team to be General Manager. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

01-12-2009, 06:09 PM	#75
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 8,375	Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ... stop with your truth and logic already!!! __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... Win! Always win! By fair means or foul, by soft words and hard deeds... by treachery, by cunning, by malpractice... but always win--Edward Teach

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