Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

The Goat · 01-26-2009, 06:41 PM

There is another angle to this I haven't seen discussed. Basically the bigger contract, especially guaranteed money, Hall receives the bigger the contract Rogers will expect/demand and I think we all realize Blache and the FO really isn't keen on giving Rogers big money. While they may like to give Hall more being that he'll sell tickets, jerseys etc the braintrust has to smart here. Also I would say Hall's negotiating position is relatively stronger than ours. Everyone knows that even if we somehow keep Springs, Los and Smoot as corners we're gonna be hurtin real soon (Springs injuries and Smoot general shittiness). And yeah maybe we can bring in another guy but none, save Asomugha, are big names like Hall who will add serious value to the franchise right?

I think Hall has to be resigned. If it comes down to cutting Springs completely to save space then show him the door... we need young, healthy talent.

Also have a question about the Los situation for GT or Schneed: would it be worthwhile to stampt the franchise tag on either Hall or Los (if it's even possible)?

A10sROCK · 01-26-2009, 06:44 PM

Hall would be a good fit for this team. Why are people upset with trying to save some money on signing him? Are they really advocating the usual - 'overpay to underplay' mode of the Redskins FO?

If we sign Hall then we can look to drop Springs and/or Rogers.

Springs is very good but is missing more and more games per year. He won't restructure. He costs about $1 mill per game.

Rogers has never achieved his first round draft choice ranking. He's decent but has dropped more game-changing balls than I can count. He wants off this team. Trade him for a second rounder and move on.

Let us sign Hall and then we can comment on whether we pay too much.

Carnage · 01-26-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dblock804

What bugs me is when he wore the free Mike Vick shirt on that Monday night game right after the trial. Coach quit and he was traded... I was thinking that he would not fit "the mold" of the current players we have.

He was teammates with vick in college and pros. He remains loyal to his teammate. How could this negatively affect our locker room chemistry?

skinsfan_nn · 01-26-2009, 06:56 PM

This isn't "low balling" it seems like a fair value for Halls services.

I applaud the FO for not overpaying for players. If you have to go up a bit, you meet in the middle some where.

If I recall correctly Hall himself said it wasn't all about the money, yea right! Show me don't tell me. He played well for a total of 7 games. This 'deal if true' appears to be a fair deal for both sides.

Carnage · 01-26-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnage

He was teammates with vick in college and pros. He remains loyal to his teammate. How could this negatively affect our locker room chemistry?

and free Mike Vick.

A10sROCK · 01-26-2009, 06:59 PM

I wonder if this article wasn't a play by Hall's lawyer to help free up a few more dollars.

Signing Hall allows Vinny to drop either Spring or Rogers.

GMScud · 01-26-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan_nn

This isn't "low balling" it seems like a fair value for Halls services.

I applaud the FO for not overpaying for players. If you have to go up a bit, you meet in the middle some where.

If I recall correctly Hall himself said it wasn't all about the money, yea right! Show me don't tell me. He played well for a total of 7 games. This 'deal if true' appears to be a fair deal for both sides.

EXACTLY. It's not about the money, I feel at home here, the scheme fits what I do well, I'm close to my home in Virginia, blah blah blah...

If he walks now, we'll know he was full of ish up to ears.

GMScud · 01-26-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaudiomatt

Nothing you've said makes any sense. The FO is clearly keeping Hall, they're in a dispute over 4$M dollars and you want to make him one of the highest paid cornerbacks in the league. Halls negogiating power is not bigger then ours he's not breaking bank anywhere in this league. Rogers is going to get a contract similar to Hall if they resign him now if they wait till next season hell probably just make more money then he would if he signs now. It makes no sense, I repeat no sense to keep Shawn Springs in any capacity, even the people who think he should move to FS. Our 2 best defensive players are safeties already there is no reason to keep Springs. We're just going to have him suck up a majority of our cap space again and he's going to sit out any game he doesn't feel like playing.

I know this isn't the gist of your argument or this thread, but huh?? Landry is one of our best defensive players, but who is the other? Horton? No way. A young talent developing into a very good player, sure. But better than Fletcher, Rogers, Hall, even Springs, Andre Carter... I don't know if he's in the top 5 of our best defensive players.

GTripp0012 · 01-26-2009, 07:22 PM

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

If DeAngelo Hall can parlay 7 great games at CB into a 16 million dollar SB, I wonder what 15 games of hardcore Redskins analysis is worth?

GTripp0012 · 01-26-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

There is another angle to this I haven't seen discussed. Basically the bigger contract, especially guaranteed money, Hall receives the bigger the contract Rogers will expect/demand and I think we all realize Blache and the FO really isn't keen on giving Rogers big money. While they may like to give Hall more being that he'll sell tickets, jerseys etc the braintrust has to smart here. Also I would say Hall's negotiating position is relatively stronger than ours. Everyone knows that even if we somehow keep Springs, Los and Smoot as corners we're gonna be hurtin real soon (Springs injuries and Smoot general shittiness). And yeah maybe we can bring in another guy but none, save Asomugha, are big names like Hall who will add serious value to the franchise right?

I think Hall has to be resigned. If it comes down to cutting Springs completely to save space then show him the door... we need young, healthy talent.

Also have a question about the Los situation for GT or Schneed: would it be worthwhile to stampt the franchise tag on either Hall or Los (if it's even possible)?

With no cap next year, there is no cap penalty for tagging anyone (obviously), and on top of that, we get two ADDITIONAL franchise tags. It's suffice to say we would use all three if there were enough players hitting free agency that you would want to keep.

Our payroll next season (2010) is likely going to hit 160-170 million, but the talent won't seem like it. The reasoning being that the Redskins never use the franchise tag because there is simply no room in their cap strategies for a player to be tendered. With no cap, we'd probably abuse the franchise tag.

The point is: Rogers is an RFA after next year anyway, wouldn't even need to be tagged, Hall is probably in under a long term deal anyway, so he'll be under contract.

The unlikely candidates for the franchise tender in 2010: Shawn Springs and/or Jason Taylor.

Carlos Rogers will certainly be here for each of the next two seasons unless we get blown away with an offer. After that, who knows? Two of his best years at basically no cost to us...of course Rogers is going to want to get a long-term deal done now. The team holds all of the leverage, and Rogers knows that.

On the other hand, Hall holds most of the leverage in these negotiations, but only if the Redskins buy the fact that he has other suitors. I don't. I think that's crap. The Redskins are only bidding against themselves here.

BrunellMVP? · 01-26-2009, 07:44 PM

does anyone have the stats on him? thrown at vs completed ratio?

I'd like to see Hall a redskins, but I do believe it prudent to think before spending a lot of money...

GTripp0012 · 01-26-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

does anyone have the stats on him? thrown at vs completed ratio?

I'd like to see Hall a redskins, but I do believe it prudent to think before spending a lot of money...

FINAL Redskins Defensive Individual Statistics and Awards - Hog Heaven

Or

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/sta...turn-al-harris

Basically:

Redskins DeAngelo Hall = one of the best seasons of the year
Raiders DeAngelo Hall = one of the worst seasons of the year
Actual DeAngelo Hall = somewhere close to the average of the two results

The Goat · 01-26-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

With no cap next year, there is no cap penalty for tagging anyone (obviously), and on top of that, we get two ADDITIONAL franchise tags. It's suffice to say we would use all three if there were enough players hitting free agency that you would want to keep.

Our payroll next season (2010) is likely going to hit 160-170 million, but the talent won't seem like it. The reasoning being that the Redskins never use the franchise tag because there is simply no room in their cap strategies for a player to be tendered. With no cap, we'd probably abuse the franchise tag.

The point is: Rogers is an RFA after next year anyway, wouldn't even need to be tagged, Hall is probably in under a long term deal anyway, so he'll be under contract.

The unlikely candidates for the franchise tender in 2010: Shawn Springs and/or Jason Taylor.

Carlos Rogers will certainly be here for each of the next two seasons unless we get blown away with an offer. After that, who knows? Two of his best years at basically no cost to us...of course Rogers is going to want to get a long-term deal done now. The team holds all of the leverage, and Rogers knows that.

On the other hand, Hall holds most of the leverage in these negotiations, but only if the Redskins buy the fact that he has other suitors. I don't. I think that's crap. The Redskins are only bidding against themselves here.

Would you say the 12m guaranteed is even too high then or in line w/ Hall's value? What I mean is this another case of the FO actually overpaying a player (treating Hall like a FA LOL)?

... thanks for the explanation on Rogers but it raises another question: w/ Los wrapped up for another two years (during his prime btw) and at a relatively reasonable price why this talk of trading the kid?

BrunellMVP? · 01-26-2009, 10:37 PM

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Great article ranking top corners...C-rogers is actually a top 10...

SmootSmack · 01-26-2009, 10:43 PM

I haven't heard anything about any negotiations with Hall, other than they'd like to sign him. I don't know where this $16 million is coming from but I suspect it's tied to the $16 million he was passed up when the Raiders waived him.

But if I were to assume that the $12 million and $16 million is accurate, then I would guess that one side came with one number and the other side said "No, that's too much (or too little)" and they'll meet somewhere in the middle. Because that's generally how negotiations work.

I hope we keep him because he's young, talented, and makes plays. I hope we keep all our defensive backs actually. It's a strong unit overall.

01-26-2009, 06:41 PM	#46
The Goat Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,044	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) There is another angle to this I haven't seen discussed. Basically the bigger contract, especially guaranteed money, Hall receives the bigger the contract Rogers will expect/demand and I think we all realize Blache and the FO really isn't keen on giving Rogers big money. While they may like to give Hall more being that he'll sell tickets, jerseys etc the braintrust has to smart here. Also I would say Hall's negotiating position is relatively stronger than ours. Everyone knows that even if we somehow keep Springs, Los and Smoot as corners we're gonna be hurtin real soon (Springs injuries and Smoot general shittiness). And yeah maybe we can bring in another guy but none, save Asomugha, are big names like Hall who will add serious value to the franchise right? I think Hall has to be resigned. If it comes down to cutting Springs completely to save space then show him the door... we need young, healthy talent. Also have a question about the Los situation for GT or Schneed: would it be worthwhile to stampt the franchise tag on either Hall or Los (if it's even possible)? __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes he eats you.

01-26-2009, 06:44 PM	#47
A10sROCK Impact Rookie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 504	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) Hall would be a good fit for this team. Why are people upset with trying to save some money on signing him? Are they really advocating the usual - 'overpay to underplay' mode of the Redskins FO? If we sign Hall then we can look to drop Springs and/or Rogers. Springs is very good but is missing more and more games per year. He won't restructure. He costs about $1 mill per game. Rogers has never achieved his first round draft choice ranking. He's decent but has dropped more game-changing balls than I can count. He wants off this team. Trade him for a second rounder and move on. Let us sign Hall and then we can comment on whether we pay too much. __________________ 'Gut and Power'

01-26-2009, 06:56 PM	#49
skinsfan_nn Playmaker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Newport News,Virginia Age: 48 Posts: 4,495	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) This isn't "low balling" it seems like a fair value for Halls services. I applaud the FO for not overpaying for players. If you have to go up a bit, you meet in the middle some where. If I recall correctly Hall himself said it wasn't all about the money, yea right! Show me don't tell me. He played well for a total of 7 games. This 'deal if true' appears to be a fair deal for both sides. __________________ "There's no greater feeling than moving a man from Point A to Point B, against his will." #68 THANKS COACH GIBBS FOR EVERYTHING! YOUR THE MAN AND ALWAYS WILL BE!

01-26-2009, 06:59 PM	#51
A10sROCK Impact Rookie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 504	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) I wonder if this article wasn't a play by Hall's lawyer to help free up a few more dollars. Signing Hall allows Vinny to drop either Spring or Rogers. __________________ 'Gut and Power'

01-26-2009, 07:22 PM	#54
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,152	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008 If DeAngelo Hall can parlay 7 great games at CB into a 16 million dollar SB, I wonder what 15 games of hardcore Redskins analysis is worth? __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

01-26-2009, 07:44 PM	#56
BrunellMVP? Impact Rookie Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 726	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) does anyone have the stats on him? thrown at vs completed ratio? I'd like to see Hall a redskins, but I do believe it prudent to think before spending a lot of money... __________________ in writing these daily letters and trying to make them interesting it is always possible that some sentiment may occur which has not received the severe and deliberate scrutiny and reconsideration which should attach to a State Paper. - Churchill

01-26-2009, 10:37 PM	#59
BrunellMVP? Impact Rookie Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 726	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008 Great article ranking top corners...C-rogers is actually a top 10... __________________ in writing these daily letters and trying to make them interesting it is always possible that some sentiment may occur which has not received the severe and deliberate scrutiny and reconsideration which should attach to a State Paper. - Churchill

01-26-2009, 10:43 PM	#60
SmootSmack The Bluths Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,221	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) I haven't heard anything about any negotiations with Hall, other than they'd like to sign him. I don't know where this $16 million is coming from but I suspect it's tied to the $16 million he was passed up when the Raiders waived him. But if I were to assume that the $12 million and $16 million is accurate, then I would guess that one side came with one number and the other side said "No, that's too much (or too little)" and they'll meet somewhere in the middle. Because that's generally how negotiations work. I hope we keep him because he's young, talented, and makes plays. I hope we keep all our defensive backs actually. It's a strong unit overall. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

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Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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