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Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Old 01-26-2009, 08:06 PM   #61
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
There is another angle to this I haven't seen discussed. Basically the bigger contract, especially guaranteed money, Hall receives the bigger the contract Rogers will expect/demand and I think we all realize Blache and the FO really isn't keen on giving Rogers big money. While they may like to give Hall more being that he'll sell tickets, jerseys etc the braintrust has to smart here. Also I would say Hall's negotiating position is relatively stronger than ours. Everyone knows that even if we somehow keep Springs, Los and Smoot as corners we're gonna be hurtin real soon (Springs injuries and Smoot general shittiness). And yeah maybe we can bring in another guy but none, save Asomugha, are big names like Hall who will add serious value to the franchise right?

I think Hall has to be resigned. If it comes down to cutting Springs completely to save space then show him the door... we need young, healthy talent.

Also have a question about the Los situation for GT or Schneed: would it be worthwhile to stampt the franchise tag on either Hall or Los (if it's even possible)?
Nothing you've said makes any sense. The FO is clearly keeping Hall, they're in a dispute over 4$M dollars and you want to make him one of the highest paid cornerbacks in the league. Halls negogiating power is not bigger then ours he's not breaking bank anywhere in this league. Rogers is going to get a contract similar to Hall if they resign him now if they wait till next season hell probably just make more money then he would if he signs now. It makes no sense, I repeat no sense to keep Shawn Springs in any capacity, even the people who think he should move to FS. Our 2 best defensive players are safeties already there is no reason to keep Springs. We're just going to have him suck up a majority of our cap space again and he's going to sit out any game he doesn't feel like playing.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:12 PM   #62
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Nothing you've said makes any sense. The FO is clearly keeping Hall, they're in a dispute over 4$M dollars and you want to make him one of the highest paid cornerbacks in the league. Halls negogiating power is not bigger then ours he's not breaking bank anywhere in this league. Rogers is going to get a contract similar to Hall if they resign him now if they wait till next season hell probably just make more money then he would if he signs now. It makes no sense, I repeat no sense to keep Shawn Springs in any capacity, even the people who think he should move to FS. Our 2 best defensive players are safeties already there is no reason to keep Springs. We're just going to have him suck up a majority of our cap space again and he's going to sit out any game he doesn't feel like playing.
I know this isn't the gist of your argument or this thread, but huh?? Landry is one of our best defensive players, but who is the other? Horton? No way. A young talent developing into a very good player, sure. But better than Fletcher, Rogers, Hall, even Springs, Andre Carter... I don't know if he's in the top 5 of our best defensive players.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:22 PM   #63
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

If DeAngelo Hall can parlay 7 great games at CB into a 16 million dollar SB, I wonder what 15 games of hardcore Redskins analysis is worth?
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:31 PM   #64
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
There is another angle to this I haven't seen discussed. Basically the bigger contract, especially guaranteed money, Hall receives the bigger the contract Rogers will expect/demand and I think we all realize Blache and the FO really isn't keen on giving Rogers big money. While they may like to give Hall more being that he'll sell tickets, jerseys etc the braintrust has to smart here. Also I would say Hall's negotiating position is relatively stronger than ours. Everyone knows that even if we somehow keep Springs, Los and Smoot as corners we're gonna be hurtin real soon (Springs injuries and Smoot general shittiness). And yeah maybe we can bring in another guy but none, save Asomugha, are big names like Hall who will add serious value to the franchise right?

I think Hall has to be resigned. If it comes down to cutting Springs completely to save space then show him the door... we need young, healthy talent.

Also have a question about the Los situation for GT or Schneed: would it be worthwhile to stampt the franchise tag on either Hall or Los (if it's even possible)?
With no cap next year, there is no cap penalty for tagging anyone (obviously), and on top of that, we get two ADDITIONAL franchise tags. It's suffice to say we would use all three if there were enough players hitting free agency that you would want to keep.

Our payroll next season (2010) is likely going to hit 160-170 million, but the talent won't seem like it. The reasoning being that the Redskins never use the franchise tag because there is simply no room in their cap strategies for a player to be tendered. With no cap, we'd probably abuse the franchise tag.

The point is: Rogers is an RFA after next year anyway, wouldn't even need to be tagged, Hall is probably in under a long term deal anyway, so he'll be under contract.

The unlikely candidates for the franchise tender in 2010: Shawn Springs and/or Jason Taylor.

Carlos Rogers will certainly be here for each of the next two seasons unless we get blown away with an offer. After that, who knows? Two of his best years at basically no cost to us...of course Rogers is going to want to get a long-term deal done now. The team holds all of the leverage, and Rogers knows that.

On the other hand, Hall holds most of the leverage in these negotiations, but only if the Redskins buy the fact that he has other suitors. I don't. I think that's crap. The Redskins are only bidding against themselves here.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:44 PM   #65
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

does anyone have the stats on him? thrown at vs completed ratio?

I'd like to see Hall a redskins, but I do believe it prudent to think before spending a lot of money...
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:46 PM   #66
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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does anyone have the stats on him? thrown at vs completed ratio?

I'd like to see Hall a redskins, but I do believe it prudent to think before spending a lot of money...
FINAL Redskins Defensive Individual Statistics and Awards - Hog Heaven

Or

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/sta...turn-al-harris


Basically:

Redskins DeAngelo Hall = one of the best seasons of the year
Raiders DeAngelo Hall = one of the worst seasons of the year
Actual DeAngelo Hall = somewhere close to the average of the two results
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:33 PM   #67
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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With no cap next year, there is no cap penalty for tagging anyone (obviously), and on top of that, we get two ADDITIONAL franchise tags. It's suffice to say we would use all three if there were enough players hitting free agency that you would want to keep.

Our payroll next season (2010) is likely going to hit 160-170 million, but the talent won't seem like it. The reasoning being that the Redskins never use the franchise tag because there is simply no room in their cap strategies for a player to be tendered. With no cap, we'd probably abuse the franchise tag.

The point is: Rogers is an RFA after next year anyway, wouldn't even need to be tagged, Hall is probably in under a long term deal anyway, so he'll be under contract.

The unlikely candidates for the franchise tender in 2010: Shawn Springs and/or Jason Taylor.

Carlos Rogers will certainly be here for each of the next two seasons unless we get blown away with an offer. After that, who knows? Two of his best years at basically no cost to us...of course Rogers is going to want to get a long-term deal done now. The team holds all of the leverage, and Rogers knows that.

On the other hand, Hall holds most of the leverage in these negotiations, but only if the Redskins buy the fact that he has other suitors. I don't. I think that's crap. The Redskins are only bidding against themselves here.
Would you say the 12m guaranteed is even too high then or in line w/ Hall's value? What I mean is this another case of the FO actually overpaying a player (treating Hall like a FA LOL)?

... thanks for the explanation on Rogers but it raises another question: w/ Los wrapped up for another two years (during his prime btw) and at a relatively reasonable price why this talk of trading the kid?
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:37 PM   #68
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Great article ranking top corners...C-rogers is actually a top 10...
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:43 PM   #69
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

I haven't heard anything about any negotiations with Hall, other than they'd like to sign him. I don't know where this $16 million is coming from but I suspect it's tied to the $16 million he was passed up when the Raiders waived him.

But if I were to assume that the $12 million and $16 million is accurate, then I would guess that one side came with one number and the other side said "No, that's too much (or too little)" and they'll meet somewhere in the middle. Because that's generally how negotiations work.

I hope we keep him because he's young, talented, and makes plays. I hope we keep all our defensive backs actually. It's a strong unit overall.
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:49 PM   #70
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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It would be no surprise to me if it's true that Vinny wants to keep the guaranteed money lower. He has to be concerned about the team's cap situation and knows he needs to keep as much room available to maneuver, or he's going to lose out on free agency altogether.

On a 6 year deal, $12 million guaranteed would take up $2 million in 2009 cap space. $16 million would take up $2.7 million. That's a big difference, an amount that would allow for one additional quality-depth guy in free agency.

It's also quite possible that the Redskins are betting Hall won't be able to do better. Revenue streams are in decline for NFL franchises due to the economy. There may be a lot of teams simply unwilling to pay it.

The way I see it, we should be thanking Vinny here. He's trying to keep a cool head, locking good players up for a reasonable amount. Would you rather he spend $20 million guaranteed on a Nate Clements type like the 49ers did?
Great point. As much as I think Vinny is just Dan's bitch, I think this is a smart move if the story is true. This is going to be a real quiet free agent year. The money is just not going to be there.
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:17 AM   #71
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Would you say the 12m guaranteed is even too high then or in line w/ Hall's value? What I mean is this another case of the FO actually overpaying a player (treating Hall like a FA LOL)?

... thanks for the explanation on Rogers but it raises another question: w/ Los wrapped up for another two years (during his prime btw) and at a relatively reasonable price why this talk of trading the kid?
I have no idea what the going rate for a very young league average corner with potential will be the current economic climate, but I'm guessing that 12 million is not grossly overpaying for his services, especially if the contract extends to or past the time he's 30. 16 million...probably at that point, we're talking elite CB level, which Hall has never been.

And trading Rogers makes no logical sense, which means that I'm inclined to tie this one to Greg Blache (and reports back this). But I've never taken the Rogers rumors too seriously. He's a top ten NFL corner, he's not going anywhere in the immediate.

A year from now, we could be seriously shopping him, but I highly doubt we'll do it for anything but an obscene offer this year. The only player in free agency who could replace Rogers is Asomugha, and if the problem with Rogers is a money thing, well then...
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:21 AM   #72
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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What bugs me is when he wore the free Mike Vick shirt on that Monday night game right after the trial. Coach quit and he was traded... I was thinking that he would not fit "the mold" of the current players we have.
I'm pretty sure that was Roddy White.

People are talking about us signing Hall to a monster deal, but the numbers are pretty modest for an above average starting corner in this league, especially given some of the deals that have been dished out over the last two offseasons (not by us btw). I don't see this as anything to freak out over.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:13 AM   #73
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
There is another angle to this I haven't seen discussed. Basically the bigger contract, especially guaranteed money, Hall receives the bigger the contract Rogers will expect/demand and I think we all realize Blache and the FO really isn't keen on giving Rogers big money. While they may like to give Hall more being that he'll sell tickets, jerseys etc the braintrust has to smart here. Also I would say Hall's negotiating position is relatively stronger than ours. Everyone knows that even if we somehow keep Springs, Los and Smoot as corners we're gonna be hurtin real soon (Springs injuries and Smoot general shittiness). And yeah maybe we can bring in another guy but none, save Asomugha, are big names like Hall who will add serious value to the franchise right?

I think Hall has to be resigned. If it comes down to cutting Springs completely to save space then show him the door... we need young, healthy talent.

Also have a question about the Los situation for GT or Schneed: would it be worthwhile to stampt the franchise tag on either Hall or Los (if it's even possible)?
I know that I'm not schneed or gt, but I can't see paying Rogers or Hall top 5 type money if they work this CBA thing out

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Old 01-27-2009, 08:15 AM   #74
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Our 2 best defensive players are safeties .
Hrmmmmmmm
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:26 AM   #75
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

Hall asking price is very reasonable 16 mil compared to the 23 mil Chris Gamble got. Deangelo Hall is a top ten corner period, and he's asking for 16 mil which is generous given that he has been known to go higher. He's 25 in his prime while Rogers is freakin 28 and drafted a year later. Re sign Hall and wait one year for Rogers.
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