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Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Old 01-26-2009, 10:49 PM   #61
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
It would be no surprise to me if it's true that Vinny wants to keep the guaranteed money lower. He has to be concerned about the team's cap situation and knows he needs to keep as much room available to maneuver, or he's going to lose out on free agency altogether.

On a 6 year deal, $12 million guaranteed would take up $2 million in 2009 cap space. $16 million would take up $2.7 million. That's a big difference, an amount that would allow for one additional quality-depth guy in free agency.

It's also quite possible that the Redskins are betting Hall won't be able to do better. Revenue streams are in decline for NFL franchises due to the economy. There may be a lot of teams simply unwilling to pay it.

The way I see it, we should be thanking Vinny here. He's trying to keep a cool head, locking good players up for a reasonable amount. Would you rather he spend $20 million guaranteed on a Nate Clements type like the 49ers did?
Great point. As much as I think Vinny is just Dan's bitch, I think this is a smart move if the story is true. This is going to be a real quiet free agent year. The money is just not going to be there.
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:17 PM   #62
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Would you say the 12m guaranteed is even too high then or in line w/ Hall's value? What I mean is this another case of the FO actually overpaying a player (treating Hall like a FA LOL)?

... thanks for the explanation on Rogers but it raises another question: w/ Los wrapped up for another two years (during his prime btw) and at a relatively reasonable price why this talk of trading the kid?
I have no idea what the going rate for a very young league average corner with potential will be the current economic climate, but I'm guessing that 12 million is not grossly overpaying for his services, especially if the contract extends to or past the time he's 30. 16 million...probably at that point, we're talking elite CB level, which Hall has never been.

And trading Rogers makes no logical sense, which means that I'm inclined to tie this one to Greg Blache (and reports back this). But I've never taken the Rogers rumors too seriously. He's a top ten NFL corner, he's not going anywhere in the immediate.

A year from now, we could be seriously shopping him, but I highly doubt we'll do it for anything but an obscene offer this year. The only player in free agency who could replace Rogers is Asomugha, and if the problem with Rogers is a money thing, well then...
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:21 AM   #63
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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What bugs me is when he wore the free Mike Vick shirt on that Monday night game right after the trial. Coach quit and he was traded... I was thinking that he would not fit "the mold" of the current players we have.
I'm pretty sure that was Roddy White.

People are talking about us signing Hall to a monster deal, but the numbers are pretty modest for an above average starting corner in this league, especially given some of the deals that have been dished out over the last two offseasons (not by us btw). I don't see this as anything to freak out over.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:13 AM   #64
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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There is another angle to this I haven't seen discussed. Basically the bigger contract, especially guaranteed money, Hall receives the bigger the contract Rogers will expect/demand and I think we all realize Blache and the FO really isn't keen on giving Rogers big money. While they may like to give Hall more being that he'll sell tickets, jerseys etc the braintrust has to smart here. Also I would say Hall's negotiating position is relatively stronger than ours. Everyone knows that even if we somehow keep Springs, Los and Smoot as corners we're gonna be hurtin real soon (Springs injuries and Smoot general shittiness). And yeah maybe we can bring in another guy but none, save Asomugha, are big names like Hall who will add serious value to the franchise right?

I think Hall has to be resigned. If it comes down to cutting Springs completely to save space then show him the door... we need young, healthy talent.

Also have a question about the Los situation for GT or Schneed: would it be worthwhile to stampt the franchise tag on either Hall or Los (if it's even possible)?
I know that I'm not schneed or gt, but I can't see paying Rogers or Hall top 5 type money if they work this CBA thing out

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Old 01-27-2009, 07:15 AM   #65
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Our 2 best defensive players are safeties .
Hrmmmmmmm
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:26 AM   #66
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

Hall asking price is very reasonable 16 mil compared to the 23 mil Chris Gamble got. Deangelo Hall is a top ten corner period, and he's asking for 16 mil which is generous given that he has been known to go higher. He's 25 in his prime while Rogers is freakin 28 and drafted a year later. Re sign Hall and wait one year for Rogers.
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:03 AM   #67
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

we need to keep him whatever it takes give him the money vinny you ignorant peabrain
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:10 AM   #68
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

While I want Vinny to re-sign Hall, I want it to be at a discount. He doesn't deserve anything that remotely approaches Asante Samuel money - he's not that good. And anyway, that's the price Hall must pay for being a knucklehead in Atlanta. He is somewhat of a risk, so I see this as a reasonable first offer. The minute the Danny overpays someone, we're quick to jump all over the FO. This type of prudence is a nice change if we can bring Hall in at a good value.
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:40 AM   #69
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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we need to keep him whatever it takes give him the money vinny you ignorant peabrain
Of course, if we give him whatever it takes and he tanks then you'll just call cerrato an ignorant peabrain for signing Hall
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:12 AM   #70
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

Perhaps an easier question might be. If we do not do a deal with him, who will we look to the will be a better fit/value, etc?
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:44 AM   #71
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Hog. The thing is Hall wants to be a Redskin he has said that many times. I don't see anyone else out there with his potential (available). Now some will argue this I'm sure but it's my opinion. He has a quickness and agressivness to him that reminds me of a young Deion Sanders. Before you say "what" he's no Deion. I grew up with Deion same town and played schoolyard football with him many times. So I know what a young Deion played like up close.

This guy with the right coaching can be something great.
That having been said, I would consider you an authority on Deion! I am in agreement with you as I personally do not know of anyone else who gets me very excited.....that we can get a deal done with.....that ALREADY is acclimated to the team?
Get a "good" deal done....move on to "the line"
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:48 AM   #72
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

To me keeping Los and signing Hall is as important as our Oline and Dline problems at this point.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:33 AM   #73
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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Hog. The thing is Hall wants to be a Redskin he has said that many times. I don't see anyone else out there with his potential (available). Now some will argue this I'm sure but it's my opinion. He has a quickness and agressivness to him that reminds me of a young Deion Sanders. Before you say "what" he's no Deion. I grew up with Deion same town and played schoolyard football with him many times. So I know what a young Deion played like up close.

This guy with the right coaching can be something great.
Orrrr he could just be saying that repeatedly in public because he knows our track record for overpaying players.

When I think of Hall and Deion the first similarity that comes to mind - they are both terrified of contact.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:56 AM   #74
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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FINAL Redskins Defensive Individual Statistics and Awards - Hog Heaven

Or

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008


Basically:

Redskins DeAngelo Hall = one of the best seasons of the year
Raiders DeAngelo Hall = one of the worst seasons of the year
Actual DeAngelo Hall = somewhere close to the average of the two results
Hall was OUTSTANDING during his 4 years in Atlanta.
DeAngelo Hall
He was also selected to the pro-bowl in 2005. If anything, his career shows that he was horribly misused in Oakland, a place where almost no players excel (remember how bad Randy Moss was there?). To say that the real Hall is just the "average" of his performance with two different teams in 2008 is to ignore the entire body of work in his 5 year NFL career.

In addition to being an excellent starting corner in this league, Hall is also durable. He has only missed 2 games in the past 4 years - one was in 2005 and the other was this year, as he was transitioning between two teams. He came to our team and picked up the defense very quickly. By the end of the season, he was our #1 CB and arguably playing better than any redskins cornerback since champ bailey.

I understand that you aren't ga-ga over Hall, but don't sell him short, either. If we extend him, we're not "taking a chance" on a guy whos play has been haphazard. Aside from half a season in Oakland, he's had a stellar career. If resigned here, we have every reason to expect him to be the best, most consistent, most durable cornerback we've had in years. When you have Shawn Springs, Fred Smoot, and Carlos Rogers on your roster, you can count on them either playing poorly in several games or missing large chunks of the season entirely due to injuries. With Hall, you can bank on having him start and play at a high level for every game for the duration of his contract. That "safety" is worth paying a little extra for, dont you think?
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:04 PM   #75
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Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

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He definatly is no Asante. So dont compare them. But he is the guy with the youth and the skills that the Redskins need. I don't think he would lay down after being paid. Why would he? That can be said of any player. I'm not sure why were afraid of him. He's also not afraid to come off his man to make or assist in tackles. Personally I like what I see from Hall. Offer him 14M Sign him and move on.
If youre referring to me, i didnt compare him to Asante in the sense of saying Hall was definitely just as good of a CB. I used the contract of several CBs and (to me), If Asante got 20M garaunteed, its not unreasonable to think Hall would deserve 16... (Assante and Gamble both benefit greatly from being on teams with a very good pass rush. It stands to reason Hall and our other CBs would get even better if we upgrade our front 7 in the offseason). I also think we would be getting a bargain if we could sign him for 14. Its a negotiation, so it seems reasonable to think that Hall wouldnt ask for 16 if it would really take 16 to make him happy. I'm hoping the two sides can reach an agreement and meet somewhere in the middle. But I hope the skins are willing to be flexible. Our CB situation is way too perilous for us to play hardball. We've got to be willing to budge some from 12.
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