Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-26-2009, 12:48 PM

Earlier today, PFT posted a blog entry saying we are about to make a "Major Offer" to DeAngelo Hall.

ProFootballTalk.com - “MAJOR OFFER” COMING FOR DEANGELO?

According to two independant and reputable sources on extremeskins [yes, i "slum it" there, on occasion, so sue me! :-) ], the hold up in the deal is that the skins have been offering Hall 12M garaunteed and he wants 16. If true, this really, really irks me, guys.

In only a few weeks the system, Hall became our best, most reliable corner last year. He will be only 25 when the season starts (for comparison carlos Rogers will be 28), so if we signed him to a 6 year deal, he would still only be 30 or 31 when it came time to renegotiate or extend him. Without a doubt, he is one of the top 10-15 corners in the league right now. Yes, he has had some "issues" in the past, but those issues never affected his play, and he seems to have matured anyways... So why the heck are we only offering him 12M garaunteed?!

is 16 garaunteed really that unreasonable for Hall?

Here are some other recent contracts for CBs:

-Nate Clements got 80M with 22M garaunteed
-Asante Samuel got 57.6M for 6 years with 20M garaunted
-Chris Gamble got 53 M for 6 years with 23M garaunteed

IMO, we are really low-balling Hall with the offer of 12M garaunteed. He is not as good a corner as Clements or Samuel, but i view him as deserving something in the same ballpark as Gamble. With his asking price of 16M, he really seems to be giving us something of a "hometown discount."

Considering how much cap room other teams have, the annual "inflation" for player salaries in the NFL, and the fact that hall is "only" asking for 16M garaunteed, and Rogers is becoming disgruntled, we should sign Hall to that deal ASAP. If he hits the open market, someone else will likely give him significantly more than that.

Personally, I think something along the lines of 52M for 6 years with 16M garaunteed is a very fair price for Halls services. What do you guys think?

Mattyk · 01-26-2009, 12:51 PM

I'm not a big fan of signing Hall to a long term deal but it appears to be inevitable at this point. I'll comment on the $$ once a deal is finalized.

jamf · 01-26-2009, 12:58 PM

I don't think he is a top tier.

If you don't think his problems effected his play then you need to review his first 6 games with Oakland this year.

A true cover corner is a rarity, D-Hall is not one. But he can be a solid corner and I think he is definitely worth resigning but we should not break the bank for him.

Skins fan 44 · 01-26-2009, 01:00 PM

Laveranues Coles got what 14 million signing bonus a few years. So come on give him what he wants. But then again look how things ended with him.

Schneed10 · 01-26-2009, 01:02 PM

It would be no surprise to me if it's true that Vinny wants to keep the guaranteed money lower. He has to be concerned about the team's cap situation and knows he needs to keep as much room available to maneuver, or he's going to lose out on free agency altogether.

On a 6 year deal, $12 million guaranteed would take up $2 million in 2009 cap space. $16 million would take up $2.7 million. That's a big difference, an amount that would allow for one additional quality-depth guy in free agency.

It's also quite possible that the Redskins are betting Hall won't be able to do better. Revenue streams are in decline for NFL franchises due to the economy. There may be a lot of teams simply unwilling to pay it.

The way I see it, we should be thanking Vinny here. He's trying to keep a cool head, locking good players up for a reasonable amount. Would you rather he spend $20 million guaranteed on a Nate Clements type like the 49ers did?

freddyg12 · 01-26-2009, 01:07 PM

this dude wore out his welcome in oakland of all places!
He could be the best cb in the league, but he has chosen to play his way & gamble a lot. He did play really well here, but it was an audition. How will he play when he's paid & we're stuck w/him?

I've never been a fan of signing him, but considering they're interested, The Skins are doing the right thing here (if this is accurate). Interest in him when he was cut was not that high because any team signing him would have had to assume his full contract. Take a look at that contract w/the raiders. How much was it worth? Whatever the #, Hall is obviously worth less & that was proven on the open market this season.

CRedskinsRule · 01-26-2009, 01:10 PM

I would add that most teams will be looking at Hall's full season, the fact that the Raiders outright released him, and all the worries that could follow. I do like how he has a knack for holding on to the ball, his hands are his talent, but I think you could watch the film and see him out of place frequently also.

CRedskinsRule · 01-26-2009, 01:53 PM

I wouldn't go overboard for him, because that will definitely set the bar for Rodgers, and if I had to choose, I would keep Rodgers. At 12 Million maybe they hope to be able to keep both,which would be the best situation personnel wise.

redsk1 · 01-26-2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Earlier today, PFT posted a blog entry saying we are about to make a "Major Offer" to DeAngelo Hall.

ProFootballTalk.com - “MAJOR OFFER” COMING FOR DEANGELO?

According to two independant and reputable sources on extremeskins [yes, i "slum it" there, on occasion, so sue me! :-) ], the hold up in the deal is that the skins have been offering Hall 12M garaunteed and he wants 16. If true, this really, really irks me, guys.

In only a few weeks the system, Hall became our best, most reliable corner last year. He will be only 25 when the season starts (for comparison carlos Rogers will be 28), so if we signed him to a 6 year deal, he would still only be 30 or 31 when it came time to renegotiate or extend him. Without a doubt, he is one of the top 10-15 corners in the league right now. Yes, he has had some "issues" in the past, but those issues never affected his play, and he seems to have matured anyways... So why the heck are we only offering him 12M garaunteed?!

is 16 garaunteed really that unreasonable for Hall?

Here are some other recent contracts for CBs:

-Nate Clements got 80M with 22M garaunteed
-Asante Samuel got 57.6M for 6 years with 20M garaunted
-Chris Gamble got 53 M for 6 years with 23M garaunteed

IMO, we are really low-balling Hall with the offer of 12M garaunteed. He is not as good a corner as Clements or Samuel, but i view him as deserving something in the same ballpark as Gamble. With his asking price of 16M, he really seems to be giving us something of a "hometown discount."

Considering how much cap room other teams have, the annual "inflation" for player salaries in the NFL, and the fact that hall is "only" asking for 16M garaunteed, and Rogers is becoming disgruntled, we should sign Hall to that deal ASAP. If he hits the open market, someone else will likely give him significantly more than that.

Personally, I think something along the lines of 52M for 6 years with 16M garaunteed is a very fair price for Halls services. What do you guys think?

For a guy who hasn't necessarily been known as a team guy, more of a me guy on Atlanta and Oakland I don't think he demands top 10 money. If we sign him, hopefully it will be on our terms. If not, see ya.

He's matured for about 2months prior trying to get a new contract.

GMScud · 01-26-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsk1

For a guy who hasn't necessarily been known as a team guy, more of a me guy on Atlanta and Oakland I don't think he demands top 10 money. If we sign him, hopefully it will be on our terms. If not, see ya.

He's matured for about 2months prior trying to get a new contract.

Great point. It's pretty easy to say the right things when you're looking for your second $50+ million dollar contract in as many years.

MdBluefinCrab · 01-26-2009, 02:00 PM

You can't judge him on his play with the Raiders, I mean come on...the Raiders!
We need to sign him as I hope Springs is gone and if not, he's usually only good for 5 or 6 games so a solid CB is needed.
Signing Hall will only solidify our backfield (if Vinny can manage to keep Rogers) and with the acquisition of a stud defensive lineman, our defense could be lights out next season. With a solid defense, we can afford to have JC play yet again, another season of mediocre football while he still learns how to play the QB position.

GMScud · 01-26-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44ever

agreed but. He backed it up with nice skills. Plus they're all saying the "right things" right now.

What do you think we should do with him GMScud?

I don't know. I'm torn. I think he's a very good player, but not a great one. I think his brief time in Oakland was a debacle, and his only redemption was a few solid games for us.

It really is a game of inches, too - that INT he had against Dallas was thrown right to him by Romo, and I can't help but wondering how eager Skins fans would be to sign him if DeSean Jackson hadn't dropped that ball in the corner of the endzone when he had Hall beat.

The real issue IMO is our other corners, and I think that is ultimately how the decision should be made on Hall. We don't have the luxury of drafting a starting caliber corner this year, Springs is aging, injury prone, and has a huge cap number, Smoot is awful, and Carlos wants a contract or a trade. So we're in a pickle. We may not have much of a choice except to keep Hall, unless we want a big drop off in production from our secondary.

Schneed10 · 01-26-2009, 02:24 PM

Whatever we think about Hall, the premise of this thread is just wierd. Why would anyone complain about Vinny trying to save money on players?

We do all understand that cap space = opportunity to sign other players, right? I don't need to launch into a giant salary cap lecture, do I?

tryfuhl · 01-26-2009, 02:38 PM

Our corner situation could drop us from one of the best secondaries to a huge question mark. Meet him in the middle.

tryfuhl · 01-26-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Whatever we think about Hall, the premise of this thread is just wierd. Why would anyone complain about Vinny trying to save money on players?

We do all understand that cap space = opportunity to sign other players, right? I don't need to launch into a giant salary cap lecture, do I?

We understand that, but sometimes you keep a productive player over signing a guy that might be able to come in and follow his assignments half of the time when someone's out for a few drives (of course that might be exaggerated, but there can still only be 53 guys on the roster)

01-26-2009, 12:48 PM	#1
BigHairedAristocrat Playmaker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3,813	Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) Earlier today, PFT posted a blog entry saying we are about to make a "Major Offer" to DeAngelo Hall. ProFootballTalk.com - “MAJOR OFFER” COMING FOR DEANGELO? According to two independant and reputable sources on extremeskins [yes, i "slum it" there, on occasion, so sue me! :-) ], the hold up in the deal is that the skins have been offering Hall 12M garaunteed and he wants 16. If true, this really, really irks me, guys. In only a few weeks the system, Hall became our best, most reliable corner last year. He will be only 25 when the season starts (for comparison carlos Rogers will be 28), so if we signed him to a 6 year deal, he would still only be 30 or 31 when it came time to renegotiate or extend him. Without a doubt, he is one of the top 10-15 corners in the league right now. Yes, he has had some "issues" in the past, but those issues never affected his play, and he seems to have matured anyways... So why the heck are we only offering him 12M garaunteed?! is 16 garaunteed really that unreasonable for Hall? Here are some other recent contracts for CBs: -Nate Clements got 80M with 22M garaunteed -Asante Samuel got 57.6M for 6 years with 20M garaunted -Chris Gamble got 53 M for 6 years with 23M garaunteed IMO, we are really low-balling Hall with the offer of 12M garaunteed. He is not as good a corner as Clements or Samuel, but i view him as deserving something in the same ballpark as Gamble. With his asking price of 16M, he really seems to be giving us something of a "hometown discount." Considering how much cap room other teams have, the annual "inflation" for player salaries in the NFL, and the fact that hall is "only" asking for 16M garaunteed, and Rogers is becoming disgruntled, we should sign Hall to that deal ASAP. If he hits the open market, someone else will likely give him significantly more than that. Personally, I think something along the lines of 52M for 6 years with 16M garaunteed is a very fair price for Halls services. What do you guys think? __________________ Dolphins get good press for saving drowning humans.But we only hear about the swimmers theyve pushed ashore.You know who we havent heard from: all the people theyve pushed out to sea.Dolphins dont know what theyre doing-they just like pushing things.

01-26-2009, 12:51 PM	#2
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 73,184	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) I'm not a big fan of signing Hall to a long term deal but it appears to be inevitable at this point. I'll comment on the $$ once a deal is finalized. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

01-26-2009, 12:58 PM	#3
jamf The Starter Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego Ca Posts: 2,178	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) I don't think he is a top tier. If you don't think his problems effected his play then you need to review his first 6 games with Oakland this year. A true cover corner is a rarity, D-Hall is not one. But he can be a solid corner and I think he is definitely worth resigning but we should not break the bank for him. __________________ You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

01-26-2009, 01:00 PM	#4
Skins fan 44 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brazil, IN Age: 42 Posts: 883	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) Laveranues Coles got what 14 million signing bonus a few years. So come on give him what he wants. But then again look how things ended with him. __________________ HTTR!

01-26-2009, 01:02 PM	#5
Schneed10 RG Glee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 33 Posts: 7,917	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) It would be no surprise to me if it's true that Vinny wants to keep the guaranteed money lower. He has to be concerned about the team's cap situation and knows he needs to keep as much room available to maneuver, or he's going to lose out on free agency altogether. On a 6 year deal, $12 million guaranteed would take up $2 million in 2009 cap space. $16 million would take up $2.7 million. That's a big difference, an amount that would allow for one additional quality-depth guy in free agency. It's also quite possible that the Redskins are betting Hall won't be able to do better. Revenue streams are in decline for NFL franchises due to the economy. There may be a lot of teams simply unwilling to pay it. The way I see it, we should be thanking Vinny here. He's trying to keep a cool head, locking good players up for a reasonable amount. Would you rather he spend $20 million guaranteed on a Nate Clements type like the 49ers did? __________________ Skins' Salary Cap Status \| CrazyCanuck's Cap Figures by Player \| Salary Cap 101

01-26-2009, 01:07 PM	#6
freddyg12 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,540	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) this dude wore out his welcome in oakland of all places! He could be the best cb in the league, but he has chosen to play his way & gamble a lot. He did play really well here, but it was an audition. How will he play when he's paid & we're stuck w/him? I've never been a fan of signing him, but considering they're interested, The Skins are doing the right thing here (if this is accurate). Interest in him when he was cut was not that high because any team signing him would have had to assume his full contract. Take a look at that contract w/the raiders. How much was it worth? Whatever the #, Hall is obviously worth less & that was proven on the open market this season.

01-26-2009, 01:10 PM	#7
CRedskinsRule MVP Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 45 Posts: 11,020	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) I would add that most teams will be looking at Hall's full season, the fact that the Raiders outright released him, and all the worries that could follow. I do like how he has a knack for holding on to the ball, his hands are his talent, but I think you could watch the film and see him out of place frequently also.

01-26-2009, 01:53 PM	#8
CRedskinsRule MVP Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 45 Posts: 11,020	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) I wouldn't go overboard for him, because that will definitely set the bar for Rodgers, and if I had to choose, I would keep Rodgers. At 12 Million maybe they hope to be able to keep both,which would be the best situation personnel wise.

01-26-2009, 02:00 PM	#11
MdBluefinCrab Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: White Plains, Maryland Age: 57 Posts: 56	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) You can't judge him on his play with the Raiders, I mean come on...the Raiders! We need to sign him as I hope Springs is gone and if not, he's usually only good for 5 or 6 games so a solid CB is needed. Signing Hall will only solidify our backfield (if Vinny can manage to keep Rogers) and with the acquisition of a stud defensive lineman, our defense could be lights out next season. With a solid defense, we can afford to have JC play yet again, another season of mediocre football while he still learns how to play the QB position. __________________ Bring the Redskins back to Washington!

01-26-2009, 02:24 PM	#13
Schneed10 RG Glee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 33 Posts: 7,917	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) Whatever we think about Hall, the premise of this thread is just wierd. Why would anyone complain about Vinny trying to save money on players? We do all understand that cap space = opportunity to sign other players, right? I don't need to launch into a giant salary cap lecture, do I? __________________ Skins' Salary Cap Status \| CrazyCanuck's Cap Figures by Player \| Salary Cap 101

01-26-2009, 02:38 PM	#14
tryfuhl Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Waldorf, MD Age: 29 Posts: 12,512	Re: Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly) Our corner situation could drop us from one of the best secondaries to a huge question mark. Meet him in the middle.

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