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6 WEEKS AGO: Trade Ramsey, Bench/trade Gardner

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Old 09-20-2004, 10:53 AM   #16
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And what exactly has Hasselbeck done to prove he should be ahead of Ramsey on the depth chart??
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:56 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mattyk72
LOL this board is utterly ridiculous today

Let me see if I have this straight, Ramsey is garbage. Even though he's a 3rd year QB who's a bright guy with a strong arm, he clearly can't win in this league (why Gibbs doesn't know this is beyond me).

Let's forget the fact he was rushed in to starting as a rookie and played in a flawed system with not much of a running game or protection.

I can't believe he hasn't picked up Gibbs' system already, a system that Joe Theismann admits took him an entire season before he felt comfortable. Let's also overlook the fact that Mark Brunell, an 11 year vet, is also struggling in picking up the system. Ramsey is clearly not going to ever amount to anything. He's had his chance, we should move on, right? I mean c'mon, he's had 16 starts, that's enough, time to hand it over to third string Tim Hasselbeck who at this time last year was sitting at home like us. We should just bench Brunell now, trade Ramsey and start TH. I really don't know what Gibbs is thinking.
Even Gibbs admitted that mistakes were made with coaching. After Ramsey's 2 INT, Hasselbeck should have been given the chance to win that game. The reason Matty you find it so difficult to let go of Ramsey is because he shows flashes of potential. But like someone mentioned, so did Jeff George. Gibbs will be first to bench Ramsey and trade him. Doug Williams won the Superbowl and was cut the next year. What do you think will happen to Ramsey if he loses like this season?
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mattyk72
And what exactly has Hasselbeck done to prove he should be ahead of Ramsey on the depth chart??
Nothing , but I never claimed that he deserved anything but a chance. I never said TH was the next Bret Farv or the next great QB. I think Ramsey has received the benefit of the doubt. Even despite his terrible game yesterday, there are many that think he is the next great QB. I don't get it. I am not giving up on Ramsey like some folks. But it is time to put Ramsey in a new light: a developing QB who is still not very good.
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:59 AM   #19
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Matty,

First, I never said Ramsey was garbage. What I have said since the offseason is:

- He has some serious problems that he needs to correct. He is VERY slow in his thought processes AND has a very slow release. So when he finally decides where to throw it, it takes too long to release. His footwork is very bad - needs work.

- We should trade him for a top OL or DL and work with Hasselbeck, who has many fewer problems. If we don't we risk him losing all of his trade value.

NOW, we went minicamps AND preseason, and he showed ABSOLUTELY no progress on ANY of his faults. He still has a terrific arm and LOTS of problems, including poor decision-making. But now, everyone else knows what we know, so his value is extremely low.

AND QB of the FUTURE??? That would have been true a while back, but since he has shown no ability (or maybe willingness?) to improve on his glaring weaknesses, I can not imagine anyone still seeing him in that role. THe guys that make it in this league are the guys that LEARN and IMPROVE. He is still at the exact level he was at when he was drafted. Let someone else take on this unlikely project.

LASTLY, the problems I am talking about have nothing to do with learning Gibbs' system. These are basic flaws in his technique that no system can hide.
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Old 09-20-2004, 10:59 AM   #20
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I have no problem saying Ramsey stunk yesterday, that's not the issue. I just don't see Hasselbeck as the answer, at all.

The answer is we need to give this offense time to come together. You can't cut and bench everyone after a loss, or the continuity we need to build is never going to come around.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:01 AM   #21
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c'mon guys... let's not get down on the offense yet. Yes Ramsey struggled, but you have to realise that he has not been taking regular number of snaps and not been practising with the first team. He was put in a very dicey situation.
Guys you have to realise that Ramsey is playing for a new coach, who has a different offensive strategy that Ol' Ball Coach. He just has 2 years of experience under him. You have to be a little patient with him, WHICH is hard to do considering that he threw 2 interceptions in the red zone and killed our drive. I am frustateed with his play but I trust the coaching staff on this one.
The problem I have is why the OL can't seem to find holes. They find holes in one drive and after that it seems as if the defense figures them out and portis struggles to get yards. Our first drive was perfect, but after that all of a sudden the NY D was able to get some pressure on Brunell and he was hurried and forced on a lot of throws.
Also Brunell is WAY inaccurate on long throws. He tried a couple to Coles but was way off the mark. The problem is a lot of teams are gonna DARE Brunell to throw long and try and cut his intermediate passes. this is exactly what the giants D did and brunell was unable to make use of the oppurtunity. QB spot id gonna be a really worry this year!!!
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:03 AM   #22
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Gentlemen,

As frustrating as yesterday's game was, let's remember that we had a chance to beat the Giants late in the game after 7 SEVEN turnovers. We need level headed individuals in charge of the skins, not like last year, where we were totally reactionary. With Spurrier last year, we would have gone to Hasselbeck in the third quarter, traded Portis by the fourth, and hung Friedman by the highest pole. Both Gardner and Coles had drops, so Spurrier would have them on the waiver wire.

Last year if we had given up seven turnovers, the opposition would have spotted 50 points on us.....however under the Gibbs we were one score away from winning.

Let's not fold our tent, and become reactionary, Let THE MAN do his job, and let's get ready for the Cowgirsl.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:06 AM   #23
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My posts are not about losing yesterday, and CERTAINLY not about getting "down" on the offense. They are about TWO players with serious faults that need to be off the field when our otherwise excellent offense is ON the field.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:07 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mattyk72
And what exactly has Hasselbeck done to prove he should be ahead of Ramsey on the depth chart??
1.More NFL experience that Ramsey. (Throws the ball away)
2. Hasselbeck's first game as a Redskin was a victory over the Dolphins. He replaced Ramsey against a hostile Miami crowd and won.
3. Gibbs asked the question in training camp, who's that guy making those passes? He then said, we may have 3 QB's fighting for 1# spot.
4. Better footwork. Simply quicker than both Brunell and Ramsey.
5.Plays with passion. Unlike Ramsey, who looks like he's not enjoying his opportunity that few people have the priviledge to enjoy.
6. Can motivate this team to execute with confidence out of the huddle.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:09 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogskin
Matty,

First, I never said Ramsey was garbage. What I have said since the offseason is:

- He has some serious problems that he needs to correct. He is VERY slow in his thought processes AND has a very slow release. So when he finally decides where to throw it, it takes too long to release. His footwork is very bad - needs work.

- We should trade him for a top OL or DL and work with Hasselbeck, who has many fewer problems. If we don't we risk him losing all of his trade value.

NOW, we went minicamps AND preseason, and he showed ABSOLUTELY no progress on ANY of his faults. He still has a terrific arm and LOTS of problems, including poor decision-making. But now, everyone else knows what we know, so his value is extremely low.

AND QB of the FUTURE??? That would have been true a while back, but since he has shown no ability (or maybe willingness?) to improve on his glaring weaknesses, I can not imagine anyone still seeing him in that role. THe guys that make it in this league are the guys that LEARN and IMPROVE. He is still at the exact level he was at when he was drafted. Let someone else take on this unlikely project.
To add to Hogskins points... Ramsey had these same problems in college. He was sacked a ton at Tulane. Yes his line at Tulane sucked and last year his line sucked, but he still keeps hagging onto the ball to long. Why has he not learned? Show some ability to adapt. Ramsey really reminds me alot of Drew Bledsoe. Another QB with all the tools but cannot change his style of play. Holds on to the ball to long and takes a ton of sacks. Those sacks leads to turnovers or loss of precious field position.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:10 AM   #26
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Ramsey is still raw guys. imagine if your first time coach in the NFL was a first time coach in the NFL as bad as Spurrier! he's talented, and smart, just RAW. he has the ability, its just a matter of time.

Gardner doesnt have the ability. hes had the time to prove it, and its not something that can be coached out. obviously the Skins thought so too, cuz they DID try to trade him. we're stuck with him for now, but nothing says we gotta start him. i doubt we will soon.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:11 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogskin
Matty,

First, I never said Ramsey was garbage. What I have said since the offseason is:

- He has some serious problems that he needs to correct. He is VERY slow in his thought processes AND has a very slow release. So when he finally decides where to throw it, it takes too long to release. His footwork is very bad - needs work.

- We should trade him for a top OL or DL and work with Hasselbeck, who has many fewer problems. If we don't we risk him losing all of his trade value.

NOW, we went minicamps AND preseason, and he showed ABSOLUTELY no progress on ANY of his faults. He still has a terrific arm and LOTS of problems, including poor decision-making. But now, everyone else knows what we know, so his value is extremely low.

AND QB of the FUTURE??? That would have been true a while back, but since he has shown no ability (or maybe willingness?) to improve on his glaring weaknesses, I can not imagine anyone still seeing him in that role. THe guys that make it in this league are the guys that LEARN and IMPROVE. He is still at the exact level he was at when he was drafted. Let someone else take on this unlikely project.
John, I expected you to have been a bit more of a rationale thinker, I'm kinda surprised.

Answer me this, we have a new offense that even an 11 year vet is stuggling to pick up. We have an offense that Joe Theismann said took him a year to figure out. So we should just trade Ramsey and move on, you don't think that's jumping the gun a bit?

Let's forget about Ramsey's first two seasons for a moment, because in hindsight they were worthless to his development. He was playing in a joke of an offense and he developed some bad habits, habits that aren't going to be corrected in 4 weeks of training camp.

To me, Ramsey is a rookie this season for all purposes.

I'm not saying he's the QB of the future, but if I had to bet I'd put my money on him over Hasselbeck every time.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:12 AM   #28
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I agree 100%, Sunra. I think Gibbs had no choice in the preseason other than to keep Brunell and Ramsey 1/2 in one order or the other. Any other move would have caused problems with the fans, media, and players. His comments showed that he was surprised by TH and had a good feeling about him. I think now (or very soon), we will see some changes start to occur. TH will get an opportunity sometime soon to show if his preseason (and last season) performances were for real or a fluke.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:13 AM   #29
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Interesting Point, Sunra

It got me to thinking whether the rest of the offense still has any faith in Ramsey, despite what they might say publicly.

They, like a lot of us, have got to be questioning whether he will ever develop into a starting quarterback. Let's not forget, this is not his first season by any means.

What is most troubling is that he seems to be getting worse, not better. Or, at best, he is treading water instead of improving.

I agree with the poster that questioned some of his basic techniques and he certainly hasn't shown me that he has the quick thought processes that a QB needs to make split-second decisions. Could be that he just doesn't have the smarts to play this position in the NFL as a starter, despite what may be good physical talents. If the mental part isn't there, no amount of coaching will change that.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:16 AM   #30
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Matty,

I just saw your last post. My extreme disappointment that you have seen in this thread, and that you responded to, are not about a new system. They are about Ramsey's terrible fundamentals - footwork, slow release, slow decision-making. These have been constants since I first saw him. In 2 seasons PLUS a Gibbs training camp, if he can show NO improvement in any of his fundamentals, I do not see it as irrational to begin to give up on him. Sorry, I don't like to dis a promising Redskin, but for me, he has shown no ability to improve. If it were "system" issues, I would not feel this way.
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