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6 WEEKS AGO: Trade Ramsey, Bench/trade Gardner

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Old 09-20-2004, 12:18 PM   #31
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I am not saying give up on Ramsey. I just don't like the talk of how great he will be and that everybody else sucks. I don't even think TH is the answer either but don't put him down and call Ramsey better. They both are about even at this point. Ramsey is not the golden boy anymore. He is a veteran that has fallen behind in his development. But I still thinks Ramsey is serviceable.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mattyk72
I have no problem saying Ramsey stunk yesterday, that's not the issue. I just don't see Hasselbeck as the answer, at all.

The answer is we need to give this offense time to come together. You can't cut and bench everyone after a loss, or the continuity we need to build is never going to come around.
Ramsey has stunk the majority of his time he's been a Redskin. Ramsey has not progressed since last year. In fact, he has digressed. New system, same poor judgement and exectuion. The excuses can not out weight the obvious facts. You thought Ramsey was going to grow into a great player like Tom Brady, Joey Harrington or Carson Palmer. Maybe on another team, but Ramsey is not the future. He's more like history. He'll demand to be traded after this season and that's all it takes.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Defensewins
MattyK72
I am not saying give up on Ramsey. I just don't like the talk of how great he will be and that everybody else sucks. I don't even think TH is the answer either but don't put him down and call Ramsey better. They both are about even at this point. Ramsey is not the golden boy anymore. He is a veteran that has fallen behind in his development. But I still thinks Ramsey is serviceable.

Servicable for holding the ball on field goal conversions.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defensewins
MattyK72
I am not saying give up on Ramsey. I just don't like the talk of how great he will be and that everybody else sucks. I don't even think TH is the answer either but don't put him down and call Ramsey better. They both are about even at this point. Ramsey is not the golden boy anymore. He is a veteran that has fallen behind in his development. But I still thinks Ramsey is serviceable.
I don't think anybody is praising Ramsey and his greatness right now, if that's what you thought of my opinion that wasn't my intention. I just think that saying he's never going to amount to anything is a little premature, and saying we need to trade him is jumping the gun in my opinion.

He does have some problems, but they can be corrected. It's going to take some time, maybe more time that some people would like here but that's the way it is.

The entire offense is going to take some time. Gibbs isn't a miracle worker.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:38 PM   #35
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"2. Hasselbeck's first game as a Redskin was a victory over the Dolphins. He replaced Ramsey against a hostile Miami crowd and won."

BS...how quicky you forget - Ricky Williams ran riot over us in the second half, and our D couldn't hold Miami off - we lost that game. (our only wins last year came against Jets/Falcons/Pats/Seahawks/Giants)

Hasselback is a decent back-up QB, but in advocating promoting him to starter, what about the time he had a QB rating of 0.0 against Dallas last year with 4 INTs? Or a miserable 2 INT outing against the Panthers this pre-season? Every QB has stunk up the joint at some point or another - if Brunell's healthy, we go with him. Else we go with Ramsey and play ball control (a huge ask for this offense).

If we get into a hole like we did yesterday, I don't think Hasselback would've been any more effective than Ramsey getting us back into the game.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:39 PM   #36
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We can start Hasselbeck and see what he is able to do, or I think it is likely we will continue to struggle on offense.

We need to experiment in order to find out more about what Hasselbeck brings to the table. We want to be objective about this and not go on presumptions and our likes and dislikes about players. Or do we think we know everything already about everyone?

I think Gibbs wanted to hold onto Ramsey because he did and perhaps still does see his potential. In retrospect, it would have been great to let Ramsey leave like he apparently wanted to and to have traded him to Miami where he might have had a better chance to develop. His problems with decision making go beyond just learning a new system. It could be that he will take longer to develop than the Redskins can afford to wait. It may be that he will not ever develop into a top flight quarterback. However, it was probably the best decision at the time, as Gibbs wanted a promising player to develop and a veteran who could start now.

I think that Gibbs does have to let Ramsey and Brunell demonstrate on the field what they are able to do, and then if we continue to struggle, fans will start to create a climate where Hasselbeck will be welcomed and not criticized and judged by fans, and can come in and not be seen as someone who is prematurely replacing one of their favorites.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:45 PM   #37
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The regular season isn't the time for experimenting at QB.

Before you know it we'll have a Spurrier-like rotation at QB, and we all know how well that went.

Brunell is the starter, Ramsey is the backup.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:56 PM   #38
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I think those advocating trades at this point of the season are falling into the same trap that the skins have for the last so many years - by not keeping your roster largely intact year after year, it takes longer to become a team.

Sure Brunell and Ramsey made some horrible mistakes, but by trading Ramsey, next year, you bring in another QB who will take a while to learn the system, leaving us with mediocrity in the mean time.

We're not expected to be a great team this year. Let Brunell & Ramsey and Gardener make all the mistakes now, but by keeping our offensive roster entirely intact, next year, we WILL be a smooth offense.
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:00 PM   #39
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TH first appearance was against Dallas. Ramsey kept getting sacked and then TH comes in and we start moving the ball. Then Ramsey comes back and hits Jacobs for a TD. All TH did was throw the ball to our receivers they were sending 8 people on the blitz. Just throw the damn ball!!!! He learned that from TH in that game. He still hold s the ball too long. Those picks were just stupid as hell..
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:02 PM   #40
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Does anyone see Priest Holmes slow down when trying to score on the goal line?
Portis did every time, He's doing too much dancing behind the line
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:03 PM   #41
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From what I remember Gibbs has no problem.. rotating QB's doug williams didnt start as the starter for the Redskins when we won that Super bowl that year. He bacame the starter right before the playoffs.
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
The regular season isn't the time for experimenting at QB.

Before you know it we'll have a Spurrier-like rotation at QB, and we all know how well that went.

Brunell is the starter, Ramsey is the backup.
That is a very reasonable opinion. And I did not say to move Hasselbeck to #1. I said he should get a shot at the backup. I know what you are saying, but making a judicious decision for a backup change (at ANY position) is not the same as SS's poorly conceived, sporadic revolving door at QB. It is the type of "adjustment" Gibbs has made many times in the past. I agree with the poster who said he does not like to "experiment", but on the other hand, he has always been willing to make adjustments when he felt they were needed. Now, maybe he will not see this as a need, but my expectation is that he will.
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:04 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by hurrykaine
"2. Hasselbeck's first game as a Redskin was a victory over the Dolphins. He replaced Ramsey against a hostile Miami crowd and won."

BS...how quicky you forget - Ricky Williams ran riot over us in the second half, and our D couldn't hold Miami off - we lost that game. (our only wins last year came against Jets/Falcons/Pats/Seahawks/Giants)

Hasselback is a decent back-up QB, but in advocating promoting him to starter, what about the time he had a QB rating of 0.0 against Dallas last year with 4 INTs? Or a miserable 2 INT outing against the Panthers this pre-season? Every QB has stunk up the joint at some point or another - if Brunell's healthy, we go with him. Else we go with Ramsey and play ball control (a huge ask for this offense).

If we get into a hole like we did yesterday, I don't think Hasselback would've been any more effective than Ramsey getting us back into the game.
I stand corrected. Hasselbeck had 4 INTs against the 1# defense in the NFL . What games did Hasselbeck win out of the 5 ?
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan
From what I remember Gibbs has no problem.. rotating QB's doug williams didnt start as the starter for the Redskins when we won that Super bowl that year. He bacame the starter right before the playoffs.

I think Matty was referring to Spurrier the way he rotated QB's every other play in college. I could be wrong though.
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:17 PM   #45
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TH stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...e?statsId=5534
only win was against the giants. no way in hell is going to ever be a fullseason starter anywhere. but who cares, his wife is hot.

patrick ramsey killed us sunday. all of our top players killed us yesterday.
gardner AND coles had 3 drops yesterday. even cooley had a drop.
brunell blew it. portis sucked.

I don't think brunell should be the redskins starter. it seems to me that he is only trying to make the safe throws(ala brad johnson). then when he gets pressure from waiting in the pocket too long, he forces it and makes a bad throw.

once ramsey came in the game, it seemed like the field got longer. all our pass routes were beyond 10 yards.

i can remember a few months ago(pre brunell), when all skins fans were happy to see ramsey in Jgibbs system. that shouldnt change now.

If gardner had caugth the football in the endzone, ramsey would've been the hero and we never would've seen the last two interceptions. that should've been an easy catch for anyone.
coles and gardner let our Qb's down sunday. coles turned the wrong way on ramseys first INT.

another excuse for ramsey: he was pressing too hard to win the starting job back. simple.

ramsey gives the skins more opportunities downfield. brunell is too conservative, it seems as if he only cares about his completions to interceptions ratio.

also, the skins need a new center. friedman is terrible. brunell cant even take a snap either.

another observation: when the game gots out of hand, chris samuels blows up inside. we saw this ALOT last year. he gets pissed and ends up missing his assignment and getting the QB killed. he did it sunday. he dominated his guyh yesterday then on 3rd and long with time running out, he just stands around while ramsey gets killed. he is rediculous. he is a pouting little boy.
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