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Second look at Ramsey

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Old 09-21-2004, 09:44 AM   #1
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Second look at Ramsey

I went back last night and watched the game from where Ramsey came in to get a second look, and while checking out another board I came across this post which was exactly what I was going to post, so rather than waste my time here it is:

Quote:
Watched the game again, and recorded all the passing plays he was in on, here goes:

1st play: Ramsey is sacked, it was a playaction play that the Giants didnt buy for a second, not his fault at all, he never stood a chance, he did a good job just holding onto it.

2nd play: WR Screen to Coles complete for 9 yards.

3rd: Rollout to left, throws deep ball to Gardner down the left sideline, good throw to recognize the tight coverage and purposely underthrow it, Gardner made a nice adjustment and came back to get it but his foot was just out of bounds, all and all a good idea. Result: incompletion

4th: BIG 3rd and 12 play. 7 step drop, hit his 7th step, planted, hopped and fired, nice work, that shows how much he's improved, he got the ball out on time. Result- hit Portis in the numbers for would-be 15 yard gain and first down, however it was dropped-incompletion.

5th: Rollout to the right, set up quickly and fired, another sign that he is getting this getting rid of the ball thing down. Result- 51 yard pass to Gardner (nice catch). Good read to see the single coverage and that Gardner had a step on him.

6th: 5 step drop, hit 5th step, popped up, set and fired, once again beautiful footwork and decisiveness. Result - 5 yard pass to Coles.

7th: Nice quick read and good anticipation on this one to see who was going to become open, got rid of it quickly and fired a strike to Gardner. Result- hit Gardner in both hands, dropped TD. Take note folks, on Ramsey's first real drive in the game (first one Portis fumbled) he would have led us to a TD if Gardner wasnt so shaky.

8th: Went to throw to corner of endzone where Coles was open, good read, but he had to double clutch due to pressure and he threw it too late and not far enough into the corner he should have just tried to run for it or something. Result- INT

9th: WR screen to Coles for 2 yards

10th: Nice checkdown to Portis, however it didnt count due to a Rod Gardner not paying attention penalty. I think Gardner has ADD, they should check that out and get him some aderol.

11th: Ramsey blitzed, 7 step drop, hit 7th step, then stepped up and pocket, showing good awareness took off up the field, very smart play. Result- 18 yard gain + facemask penalty.

12th: Ramsey blitzed again, 5 step drop, Ramsey pops and fires from his 5th step. Result - Strike to Coles, good job getting rid of it, also good blitz pickup by line/backs - 15 yards

13th: Wow, 15 yard TD pass to Portis. Not many people can make this throw, it was ridiculous. Seriously what a play by Ramsey and what a catch by Portis. Whoa.

14th: Rollout left, deep ball down left sideline to Gardner, close but just a bit too far, good read though he had Gardner on a safety. - Pass interference called.

15th: Another 7 step drop, Ramsey once again does a great job of hitting that last step and firing it, really looks good to me. But the ball is batted at the line.

16th: HUGE 3rd and 9 play: Rollout right, sets and fires strike to tightly covered Gardner (Gardner catches!!!). His arm strength really came in handy there, Brunell could not have fit that in.

17th: INT- Coles faked the out and went to cut back in however Peterson was sneaky and held Coles's arm so he couldnt get back in. So it went right to the Giant. Note this INT was not Ramsey's fault.

18th: Fumbled snap- Friedman's fault.

19th: 7 step drop, once again right on time from Ramsey- good pass and catch to Coles, nice block from Portis- gain of about 20

20th: Ramsey flushed out right- worst pass i've ever seen him throw, I dont know what he was doing but he even said in an interview that it was just stupid, this is uncharacteristic of him if you ask me, he is usually pretty good at not making stupid turnovers if you ask me. Goes right to Giants guy-INT should have just thrown it away or Portis was open right in front of him, just a bad play, everyone has them.

21st: Sack- he stepped up in the pocket and did everything he could, just got swarmed around and nobody appeared to be open but I couldnt tell b/c the TV view.

22nd: Nice pass while under great pressure, nice to see him use some touch b/c he usually just fires it, its good to see that he was working on his touch passes- however it was dropped by Coles, would have been a first down and then some.

23rd: Blitz, nice job avoiding pressure and good pass to Coles for 12 yards.

24th: 4th and 4- nothing really was open, was forced to fire one to Portis- incomplete

25th: he was sacked but just throw this out b/c it was a hail mary.
Upon watching him again and comparing notes with this person's post, when you break down what he did well and what he didn't do well, he really played better than the numbers show. Despite what some people might think, I think he really has improved his footwork and getting the ball out more quickly and decisively. I certainly don't see a QB we should be looking to give up on. Yeah he made some bad plays, but they overshadowed some of the really positive things he did.

Perhaps Brunell's injury is a blessing in disguise. We all talk about how Ramsey needs experience and playing time to learn and grow, well, here's his opportunity. Let's hope he runs with it and never looks back.

I really think the potential is there and he is improving, maybe not as quickly as some of you would like from a 3rd year QB with limited experience but that's a whole other topic.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:08 AM   #2
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Matty, you've said all along and it's obvious. Ramsey is a work in progress, and he is showing signs of improvement. Yeah, 3 int's....there's no excuse for that, but let's think about the circumstances. Ramsey was simply trying to win the game and he obviously was pressing too hard. Lavar even said himself yesterday on the John Thompson radio show....."You can say what you want about Patrick, but the point is, is that all he was trying to do was win the game and he was just pressing too much" more Lavar...."all the mistakes Patrick made are FIXABLE!"


I'm done arguing with all the PR haters. I believe he can get it done, and nothing will change that. If the coaches and players have his back, then that must tell you something.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:52 AM   #3
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Dude, if Gardiner doesn't play like a moron, and blow the TD, I think Ramsey doesn't press and throw that last INT.
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:17 AM   #4
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Dude, Ramsey lost this game. He threw the first INT on the 7 yard. The pass was late, too short and no zip at all. The second INT I blame him for also. Coles wasn't within 10 ft. of the ball and Peterson had locked him up before Ramsey threw the ball. Ramsey was focused on just completing the ball to Coles and not throwing the ball away. The 3rd INT was the most dumb INT I've seen from Ramsey. He claimed there was pressure on him as he threw it. But if you review it, he rolled out to his right and tried to under throw the ball and have Gardner come back for it with double coverage? One great play, one stupid play. He should be moving along far better than this dude. What was training camp for?
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:22 AM   #5
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Great play by play Matty, but Ramsey decision making has affected his ability to execute under pressure. I can throw a ball all day without pressure on me, but he should be used to this by now. If I had been sacked as many times as he had, I would have to look for an alternative to protecting my head. He just doesn't get it.
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:27 AM   #6
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These days there are not many works in progress in the NFL. Tom Brady was pushed into the starting role and delivered a super bowl win. I'm trying to think of project QBs that have done anything recently in the NFL and I can't. Bottom line is today's NFL is not about building, its about winning now and if a QB isnt a quick study he will be looking for another line of work. Hopefully PR can get it going by week 8.
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drift Reality
Dude, if Gardiner doesn't play like a moron, and blow the TD, I think Ramsey doesn't press and throw that last INT.
If Gardner makes the TD catch, he might not make any of the INT's.

Gardner's TD puts the team up 21-20. Assuming the D holds (a fair assumption, since they have had all of three points scored against them this year that weren't the result of a turnover), Patrick has no need to force the ball downfield with ill-advised throws. We would be in three-TE sets, getting four yards every 40 seconds when we had the ball.

I'm certainly not saying Ramsey is without sin here. Every member of the offensive unit has questions to answer. That drop was an absolute back-breaker though.
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Old 09-21-2004, 12:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish
These days there are not many works in progress in the NFL. Tom Brady was pushed into the starting role and delivered a super bowl win. I'm trying to think of project QBs that have done anything recently in the NFL and I can't. Bottom line is today's NFL is not about building, its about winning now and if a QB isnt a quick study he will be looking for another line of work. Hopefully PR can get it going by week 8.

Good point. Tim Couch is no longer in the NFL. Cade McNown is longer in the NFL. Sometimes the pressure to produce immediately causes young QB's to digress or remain stagnant. Joey Harrington is leading the Lions. Carr is leading the Texans and Brady is commandeering his Patriots to a 18-0 winning streak and Ramsey is a work in progress. Is this what we want to settle for with all of the money we have spent?
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:15 PM   #9
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We'll see what Ramsey can do on Monday. He is a work in progress because he is learning a completely different system that the one he has been in the past two years. Like Matty pointed out, he is improving on many of his "bad habits" he had or had developed last season. Brunell was brought in specifically to tutor him, no matter which one of them is starting....and be assured that Mark will be in his ear on the sidelines giving him tips and advice.
He'll get a full week of work with Gibbs and the first team offense this week, and I'm curious to see how he does in a full game...
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:24 PM   #10
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But I think this is becuase of salary cap/free agent issues, not becuase of talent or anything. People just can't afford to develop peospects, or so it seems. But Chad Pennington was a backup for quite a while with the Jets, for example. ANd it's not like Peyton Manning led the colts to lots of victories early on. I think also that GMs/coaches give up to quickly on guys. It's just win NOW, baby, or see ya. Anyway, the reason Brunnell is here is to give Gibbs and Co. time to develop PR. They are old school in that sense, though they took a lot of shi* for spending that money.
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:38 PM   #11
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Nice points JW

How about Brad Johnson and Trent Green? Those guys spent years riding the pine
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Old 09-21-2004, 02:12 PM   #12
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it's kinda funny how we try to rationalize some things when everything gets chaotic. plain and simple we all know ramsey can do some things other qbs on our staff can't do but then he also does some things no qbs should ever do.
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Old 09-21-2004, 02:42 PM   #13
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Thanks for breaking that down for us (or at least copying it for us). That was actually quite interesting.
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRA
Dude, Ramsey lost this game. He threw the first INT on the 7 yard. The pass was late, too short and no zip at all. The second INT I blame him for also. Coles wasn't within 10 ft. of the ball and Peterson had locked him up before Ramsey threw the ball. Ramsey was focused on just completing the ball to Coles and not throwing the ball away. The 3rd INT was the most dumb INT I've seen from Ramsey. He claimed there was pressure on him as he threw it. But if you review it, he rolled out to his right and tried to under throw the ball and have Gardner come back for it with double coverage? One great play, one stupid play. He should be moving along far better than this dude. What was training camp for?
First of all, you can't blame Ramsey for losing the game.. Was he in when Portis fumbled and it was taken in for a TD? Was he in when Brunell threw his INT? Was he at fault for Portis's other fumble? He made 2 bad throws and Coles ran the wrong route on the other one. To blame him for losing the game is silly.. I agree, he should be farther along than he is, let's see how he does while Brunell is out and coming in with a game plan for him and 0-0 on the scoreboard rather than coming in down 20-7 in the 2nd half.
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintrain
I agree, he should be farther along than he is, let's see how he does while Brunell is out and coming in with a game plan for him and 0-0 on the scoreboard rather than coming in down 20-7 in the 2nd half.
If we want to get technical, the score when Ramsey was in the game was Redskins 7 , Giants 0.
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