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Old 04-27-2009, 07:18 PM   #76
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

We need a new CB because Williams mistook Carlos Rogers for his sandwich and swallowed Rogers whole today.
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:23 PM   #77
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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We need a new CB because Williams mistook Carlos Rogers for his sandwich and swallowed Rogers whole today.
Will you be in the house all week?
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:11 PM   #78
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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You honestly think that Dan and Vinny are in their right mind?
yes I do, even though I may not agree with every pick. Imagine that.

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A few examples of why they are NOT, Adam Archuletta, we made him the highest paid Safety in the league. He started/played in how many games for us? T.J. Ducket, Jason Taylor, the list goes on and on.
It's been said many times, many ways - your examples are old, (except JT, and nearly everyone on the board at the time at least understood the move, it was not the same as AA, but we did pay too much). The FO has filled 3 of 4 areas of need very effectively (GTripp I am not counting Hall). LB -good prospects (especially if Wilson can switch to SLB at all), DL - bowing to GTripp again, assuming the scheme and players are used well, the FO has acquired what would appear to be top notch talent that should be here for 3-6 years. Yes the OL is a need, the offseason is not over, but Dockery was a passible start. STs - I love Hunter, and the late rounders all "look" to be aggressive, and maybe one will be a standout.

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And, did anyone see what Zorn said about the draft? Apparently the reason we drafted 4 defensive players first in this draft is because we drafted 4 offensive player first last year. Great logic?
Um context is good, we drafted Offense last year, so rather than throwing out last year's 3rd round prospect for the 5th rounder you apparently have so much faith in, they are going to keep developing our guys (isn't this called building through the draft? or are all late rounders supposed to be starters in the 2nd year? I must have missed that lesson)
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Please, sir, our FO ranks towards the bottom when it comes to brains.
we have found Superman13732's green kryptonite, it is JC, it causes him to go weak in his arguments
and his red kryptonite is the FO, who knows how that will affect him each time.
There is a cure for this kryptonite though. Knowledge, and lack of impatience, and perhaps Superman CAN Return!!!
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:35 PM   #79
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

Only the losers of the NFL preach patience.

Ask Robert Kraft, Bill Belichick, or Mike Tomlin how patient they expect their fans to be. How about Bill Polian? Does anyone think his success in Buffalo, Carolina, or Indianapolis was based on sitting through years and years of 8-8 seasons asking everyone to be "patient" ??

No. This league is about winning, and winning right F'ing now. We've had 10 years under this regime. They're good at building mediocrity. They're good at developing teams to win 6 to 9 games a year -- maybe 10 games if everything falls right into place.

The league is designed to make winners out of anybody, and for anybody to do it in relatively short fashion.

If you can't get it done in ten years with the same people running the show, it's not going to get done.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:11 PM   #80
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
Only the losers of the NFL preach patience.

Ask Robert Kraft, Bill Belichick, or Mike Tomlin how patient they expect their fans to be. How about Bill Polian? Does anyone think his success in Buffalo, Carolina, or Indianapolis was based on sitting through years and years of 8-8 seasons asking everyone to be "patient" ??

No. This league is about winning, and winning right F'ing now. We've had 10 years under this regime. They're good at building mediocrity. They're good at developing teams to win 6 to 9 games a year -- maybe 10 games if everything falls right into place.

The league is designed to make winners out of anybody, and for anybody to do it in relatively short fashion.

If you can't get it done in ten years with the same people running the show, it's not going to get done.
But we haven't necessarily had the same people running the show

2000-Snyder
2001-Marty
2002-2003-Spurrier
2004-2007-Gibbs
2008-Present-Cerrato
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:24 PM   #81
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
Only the losers of the NFL preach patience.

Ask Robert Kraft, Bill Belichick, or Mike Tomlin how patient they expect their fans to be. How about Bill Polian? Does anyone think his success in Buffalo, Carolina, or Indianapolis was based on sitting through years and years of 8-8 seasons asking everyone to be "patient" ??

No. This league is about winning, and winning right F'ing now. We've had 10 years under this regime. They're good at building mediocrity. They're good at developing teams to win 6 to 9 games a year -- maybe 10 games if everything falls right into place.

The league is designed to make winners out of anybody, and for anybody to do it in relatively short fashion.

If you can't get it done in ten years with the same people running the show, it's not going to get done.
As SS pointed out, the only one we've had for 10 years is Danny Boy, and we likely are stuck with him for another 25 years.

If you look at the successes of Polian and Belichick, one ingredient they have is stability. They don't panic and impatiently change things.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:26 PM   #82
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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And the only thing I am growing impatient with, is waiting for players to develop (i.e. Campbell, going on 5 years, our entire draft last year played how many snaps?) At the rate we are developing players, we are going to develop our All-stars (Portis, Samuels, Moss) into retirement. You can keep the patience, I personally believe someone needs to light a fire under the FO's ass.
We've talked about this before. 5 years ago JC was a junior at Auburn. Please re-adjust your time line.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:49 PM   #83
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

This guy is 410 pounds and out of the league for 3 years. I figured he sustained an injury and was now ready to play. I thought why in hell would the Redskins take this on. Then I read that he lives with Dockery and his wife and thought to myself that maybe, this was part of Dockery signing here. What do you guys think. Just makes no sense.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:50 PM   #84
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

Your "experience tab" means that he is going into his 5th year.

Let's do math: It is now April 2009. 5 years ago was April 2004.

JC was drafted in April 2005.

Therefore, in April 2004 or 5 years ago, JC was junior at Auburn.

But I'll tell you what: In order to have 5 NFL years under his belt, JC would have had to play the 2004 season. Find me his NFL stats from 2004 and I'll change my mind. If you cannot find those stats then please change your time line.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:50 PM   #85
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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But we haven't necessarily had the same people running the show

2000-Snyder
2001-Marty
2002-2003-Spurrier
2004-2007-Gibbs
2008-Present-Cerrato
Fine. I'll subtract the 8-8 season under Marty.

Steve Spurrier was hardly running the show during 2002-03. Under Gibbs, Cerrato was still player personnel director, and Lil' Danny held the purse strings.

Either way you slice it, Lil' Danny has been here for the last ten years doing the hiring. In any business, the one who's doing the hiring is the one who gets the blame. And he's got a 68-76 record to show for it.

You know and I know those numbers show he's not getting it done.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:52 PM   #86
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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Fine. I'll subtract the 8-8 season under Marty.

Steve Spurrier was hardly running the show during 2002-03. Under Gibbs, Cerrato was still player personnel director, and Lil' Danny held the purse strings.

Either way you slice it, Lil' Danny has been here for the last ten years doing the hiring. In any business, the one who's doing the hiring is the one who gets the blame. And he's got a 68-76 record to show for it.

You know and I know those numbers show he's not getting it done.
Fine. Danny has been in charge for 10 years, that is true. So, if you don't want to be patient, what are you going to change? Trade Danny? As much as I'd like to, that's not realistic.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:57 PM   #87
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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My time line?!?!? check your stats, i dont know how the hell this is discussable, he has been on our team for 4 years. Going on 5.
I see you already got it. The number you are looking for is four years, not 5 as you previously stated.

Further, JC rode the bench as a rookie. You're really going to criticize him for not producing then?

The fact is that JC has only about 1 3/4 years experience as a starter. When it comes to being patient with JC, that is the number which needs to be discussed. Not 5 years for sure, not even 4 years, but 1 3/4 years.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:59 PM   #88
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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No, its been Dan and Vinny the whole time. Let's not kid ourselves. Marty wanted to do his own thing, but they got tired of that after... one year, then was Spurrier, who was Dan's lap dog, just like Vinny. Gibbs... eh, thats arguable, he ran the show some of the time, but pick ups like Lloyd, Archuletta, and Duckett, they smelled like Dan ad Vinny had thier fingers in it.
I love how we only talk about the mess ups of the FO. How about the Santana Moss trade? How about Griffen, Springs, and Daniels signings. I will not bore everone on the board with this discussion any longer but I think that to say things like our FO is stupid or retarded just doesn't really hold water with me. They have areas where they can improve. You cant just compare us to Indy, Pitt, and New England every time. These are elite franchises with years of stability in coaching and systems. If we stay the course we could eventually get there. I actually am happy with our offseason. We have gotten younger at a lot of positions and have upgraded both our offensive and defensive lines (and we aren't done yet). And our O-line shoudl be better just with the improvement of the guys already there. Lets have some faith.

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Old 04-27-2009, 11:08 PM   #89
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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Fine. Danny has been in charge for 10 years, that is true. So, if you don't want to be patient, what are you going to change? Trade Danny? As much as I'd like to, that's not realistic.
I actually have sympathy for this point of view: There's no point in bitching about ownership because it's not going to change. That's the one argument from the Front Office Defenders that I can respect. I get that.

It is beyond me though, that there is still a contingent of fans that act as loyal pawns of this regime. So quick to roll their eyes at anyone who makes a legitimate argument against the front office. "I guess it's more fun to bash the F.O." they'll say...

Win some games, and that will change.

Winners don't tolerate a 7-9 season average over ten years. Losers do.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:13 PM   #90
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re: Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

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I love how we only talk about the mess ups of the FO. How about the Santana Moss trade? How about Griffen, Springs, and Daniels signings. I will not bore everone on the board with this discussion any longer but I think that to say things like our FO is stupid or retarded just doesn't really hold water with me. They have areas where they can improve. You cant just compare us to Indy, Pitt, and New England every time. These are elite franchises with years of stability in coaching and systems. If we stay the course we could eventually get there. I actually am happy with our offseason. We have gotten younger at a lot of positions and have upgraded both our offensive and defensive lines (and we aren't done yet). And our O-line shoudl be better just with the improvement of the guys already there. Lets have some faith.

HTTR
Dude, how about 68-76 over ten years? How about 22-26 over the last three seasons?

Faith is believing in something you know ain't true.
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