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All NOT in favor of Portis deal!

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View Poll Results: Champ and our 2nd rounder to Denver for Portis, your thoughts?
Great move! 31 59.62%
Bad move! 6 11.54%
I'm not sure 15 28.85%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-25-2004, 01:21 AM   #31
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We were going to lose Champ, no two ways about it. Other teams knew it and weren't going to bend over backward to help us. Portis was going to hold out, so it was a mutual thing.

If Portis has a thousand yard season and catches and blocks well, he's worth it. He's 23.

THe second rounder only hurts if we don't get decent cap relief in the deal. BUt we should, given what we would have had to pay Champ. So the main question is how Portis's contract is structured. Good contract=good deal. If we free up money, we can free agent our way to defense. Champ's contract was blocking that.

Trade down for an extra pick, work the FA's on defense, and we'll have it.

But the long-term may be trouble! (Still, rookies need to get paid when their first contracts end, so that's not fool proof for building longterm either!)
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Old 02-25-2004, 01:52 AM   #32
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I know the Spurrier era is over and not to bring him up again but I wonder what the feeling would be if he were still head coach and the first moves of the season were to add two offensive players (granted one is PORTIS!!!!), including adding another quarterback and we were going to give up Champ, Armstead and two draft picks

All that being said, like others have mentioned Champ didn't seem to want to be here. At the very least he was going to lead the Skins through a protracted holdout. Plus, it's early. We can still add draft picks plus there's free agency. Let's see what the Skins do over the next couple of months

Last edited by SmootSmack; 02-25-2004 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 02-25-2004, 03:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
I'm still in favor of the signing.

1. We're gonna pay top dollar to keep Bailey (if we don't trade him)
2. We need to consummate a deal soon to stay well beneath the cap for FA
3. I'm not so sure the Lions would give their 1st pick + another pick
4. Portis will demand a LOT less than Bailey (probably 5 million/yr. not 9 mill)
5. The 6th overall pick is going to cost a boatload to sign
6. If you trade down from #6, you're going to pay a boatload for 2 high picks
7. The draft can be risky (see Desmond Howard et al)
8. Gibbs' system requires a top notch, proven back
9. Top notch proven backs don't come cheap (unless they're old)
10. Portis is, IMHO, the best back in the league and is one of the youngest
11. Signing Kearse, Springs, & Gardener/Washington will offset Champ's loss

as much as I hate to disagree with a fellow skins fan, How could anyone not think the best complete back in the NFL right now is LaDainian Tomlinson of the SD Chargers? Granted Portis is up there but atleast a big portion of his yardage comes from his o-line while LT got all of his #'s with a terrible line of young players and a pathetic passing game(other than the 100 catches he pulled in.)

now what the skins should do is forget the Portis deal as much as I would love to have a young RB on the possible cusp of being in the upper ranks of the all time RBs, the deal is too costly to us. We don't know for sure if we can give him the contract he's gonna be looking for and not only are we giving up one of possibly the top 15 players in the league, we have to give up a very high 2nd round pick?!?! so here we go and this is gonna involve quite a few trades so it probably isn't all that feasible but it would work(but thats the fun part before the draft isn't it?):
1.)trade champ to Atlanta for their 1st(#8) and 2nd round picks which they seem ready to give up
2.)draft taylor with the #5 if he's still there but if not there isn't anyone who fills a need that is worth that high of a pick and huge signing bonus so trade that pick down in the 10-15 range for a team's 1st, possible 2nd or atleast 3rd, and a 5th or 6th rounder if possible
3.)with the 8th pick trade down to a team in the 20-25 range and their 2nd round pick
4.) with the 10-15 pick we take stephen jackson or Kevin Jones and we have ourselves a stud running at atleast a 1/3 or 1/4 the price Portis is going to want
5.)with the 20-25 pick take the de from USC or chris gamble if he's somehow available
6.) use the 2nd round picks to get a cb like D. Hall if gamble wasn't available earlier, an offensive linemen you can groom if samuels has to go this year or next, a wide reciever which there are a vast amount to choose from cuz I don't know about u but I'm tired of Gardner having the dropsies, and a yound d-linemen to be a back up atleast in his first year or a olb like boulware to replace armstead
7.)the rest of the picks should be used for solid back ups and a late round pick for a new punter
8.) use free agency to get someone at CB like Troy Vincent best case scenario or someone like b.taylor, a. plummer, or winfield who did pretty well under Greg williams(spring's has been hurt a lot with lingering injuries)/ DT: R. Coleman or R. Smith/DE: Kearse who is free of a franch. tag or grant winstrom

The contracts shouldn't be all that high for the first rounders, the really bad contracts are usually the top 5 or so. the draft I propose would provide a vast group of young players w/o very costly contracts which would all be about 4-5 years in length. The free agents listed might be a bit pricey but nothing snyder and cerrato can't work with.

plus is anyone else as scared about what might come out from this problem w/arrington's contract? this doesn't sound good but it also sounds a bit fishy from the agents side too since he first reported the contract being around 80 million even though it was 74.5 and now he's saying the contract turned in was for 6.5 million less than what was signed and agreed too. This would be the third suspicious business transaction being investigated invovling the skins in less than a year(tampering with Milloy and recently sam adams.) I hope this is all just some big mistake but it feels like something bads about to happen.
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Old 02-25-2004, 04:25 AM   #34
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First of all, keeping Bailey is not a serious option. He has to go. To have kept him would mean a miserable disruption and holdout.

Portis is not merely a good running back - he is a great running back who could realistically gain 2,000 yards in a season. Bailey is possibly the best cornerback - but again, he cannot play for us this year without creating a huge problem. Are we a stronger team with Portis being a dominant game breaker that teams have to account for on every play, or are we stronger say taking the Lions deal and their first round draft pick in exchange for Bailey? Or picking up Greg Ellis from the Jets? Portis is a known quantity, and a draft pick is always a gamble. Portis looks very much like a player that could be beginning a hall of fame career.
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Old 02-25-2004, 07:38 AM   #35
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Good Deal!

Undoubtedly a great deal! Value for Value! High $$$ for fewer $$$, and a top tier RB! Doesn't everyone realize that only E. Dickerson, Edgerin, and Portis are the only three guys to pick up over 1500 yards in each of their first two years? And he has a higher YPC(yards per carry) than the Legendary Jim Brown! That is some pretty good company! No, great company! Discount the 2nd rounder for one moment please! Drumroll here........ LDS and cousinvinnie are already salivating over the FA market! We did quite well with our FAs last year, and this is the time of year for LDS and his fantasy wishes to come true! He passes out $$$ like it's paper! On the other hand, all any of us can do here is work for a living, and only a very few of us (less than 1%) can actually afford to play his game! The other side of this great deal is of course, HOF Coach Gibbs and his ability to bring an O line together in order to run that ball! Leave the D to Coach Williams and Coach Blache, please! Once LDS gets "his guys", the D will come together as well. I suspicion that "his guys" this year will be on the D side!!! FA is only a few days away! Look up! Isn't that LDS's private plane??? Maybe this year LDS has a secret weapon like maybe a couple of personal private planes!
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:05 AM   #36
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I like this deal because we already have a good secondary, just need another good/average CB role player to compliment that unit.

Portis is probably the best RB in football today..!

How can the Skins pass on a talent that Portis...? I think now!
Throwing on 4th and inches..!
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:12 AM   #37
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If it was just a straight swap, I agree go for it. But giving up a 2nd orunder too? Expensive no matter which way you cut it.
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:27 AM   #38
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Thumbs up

People say that while good RB's can be found all over, a shut-down corner is very rare. Okay, I understand that....BUT...which position wins games??? Yep...RUNNING BACK!!! We have the opportunity to get one of the best young RB's in the league, so I say do it. A top RB will get you at least a couple more wins than an average one. We have been 8-8 or worse with the best corner in the league!!!

I'm still not thrilled with the 2nd rounder, but this is a deal that has to be done. I'm still hoping that Denver throws in a pick as well, even if it is a lower 3rd or 4th rounder, so we at least still have 3 draft picks to work with (for now).

Is he a product of their system? Maybe to an extent, but look at our system now. Our linemen LOVE to run block, and with Gibbs & Bugel in charge, they will be the line they should be...or better. No worries there.

As for the Defense, we have Williams running it now, so that will make it better anyway. Plus, we WILL improve the D-line, and word is that we will go after Springs or Winfield to replace Champ, so we will be fine.

Get this done!!!
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Old 02-25-2004, 10:17 AM   #39
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Great point Skins Rock. Running back is a very important position in the NFL today. If you don't believe me, look at the Green Bay Packers. Look at the Carolina Panthers. They have no great corners to speak of, but they have great runners. Granted, Green Bay has Favre, but he's not the same guy he was so many years ago. It's Ahman Green now. For the Panthers it was all about Stephen Davis. I don't wanna hear Ricky Manning, he was no one when the season started and they were fine.

Running back is much more important than Corner. As much as I would love to see Champ stay, this was the best thing that could have happened. Shaun Alexander is nowhere near the back Portis is, Alexander will rush for 80, 75, 62 then one game have 212 and four TD's, I'd rather have Portis. Portis is much more consistent and he's just all around better than Shaun Alexander.

With the cap space they have the Skins are going to be fine this year. They'll add another corner and improve the D-Line. 2 draft picks or not, they're going to win.
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Old 02-25-2004, 10:51 AM   #40
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Yeah. I thought I was the only one who considered changing screen names... Welcome back!?
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Old 02-25-2004, 11:20 AM   #41
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Something people are forgetting is that Champ's value has been somewhat degraded not only because people know we can't afford to keep him and he wants out of D.C., but also because the CB Free Agent market is flooded. I'm sure people could get Charles Woodson or Chris McCalister for one high #1 pick (unlike Bailey who the Redskins want more for). The RB Free Agent Market however is pathetic (Duce Staley, a 30 year old slightly-above-average back is the best one out there?) and the draft has only two SERIOUS backs who should go in the first round and be decent starters.
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:17 PM   #42
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Re: All NOT in favor of Portis deal!

Originally Posted by skinsfan26
If we do get Portis, there is no doubt we will be a deadly offensive team. Coles, Gardner, OL, Portis, Ramsey or Brunell. It will be almost unstoppable offense. On D we will be crushed by ur div opponents in the passing game. Rumor around the league of Keshawn going to Dallas and TO going to Philly will hurt us a lot. Who will cover these guyz? I think we need champ for that reason, but I also understand that it is impossible to meet champ demands considering other wholes we have. I would say we should deal with Detroit instead of Denver and built ur team with the picks acquired from them.
hahahahaha its great to look back at some of the things that were said back in the day. I know, I know, hindsight is 20/20, but its still hilarious
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:46 PM   #43
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Re: All NOT in favor of Portis deal!

Wow... I can't wait to go back next year after we win the Super Bowl and laugh and laugh... ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK.
Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:56 PM   #44
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Re: All NOT in favor of Portis deal!

dude i was moving the other day and popped in a tape that i found and it was some nfl reporter show and it was before last season and it was talking about how amazing our offense was and how if only we had a defense we would be unstoppable. It was funny to look back, they were talking about how our defense was below average and the only good player was arrington.
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Old 07-27-2005, 04:24 PM   #45
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Re: All NOT in favor of Portis deal!

Originally Posted by offiss
I agree with httr, I am also afraid SS's shadow is still empailing our team, he made player's look so useless that nobody believes any of these guy's are capable of finding the field, let alone play. to bad we will lose champ for a back we don't need, and have holes in area's that we do need, I guess we just send the rest of our back's packing at this point, if we go this route bett's was another obvious waste of a pick for us, but not for the team that will give him a chance.

OK who's posting with my name?

Matty we have an investigation on our hands, I didn't write that.

But I do agree with it.

I would say skincane accidently got on my comp. for that post, but that post is to intelligent for him, so I will investigate else where.

Wo to you who post's in offiss's name and offiss thus has not said it, your punishment shall be swift and strong!
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