Gibbs' take on Campbell's situation

GTripp0012 · 06-26-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry

I would have to disagree with two points here. First, the reality is that starting QB jobs are at a premium for QB's of JC's talent. In fact there are several former starting QB's that are either jobless or backups who have posted better numbers than JC. Secondly, JC may be at the end of his rookie contract and he may have made more money than you or I in the past few years, but the fact of the matter is that he is one of the lowest paid starting QB's in the league. Unless he has a monster season, no franchise, the Redskins or otherwise is going to give him the typical payday for an above average starting QB.

Just to throw some food for thought out there, I doubt that there is any type of serious interest out there for a QB like Jason Campbell. In both the Cutler and Sanchez attempts the FO was trying to unload JC on the other team as part of the trade bait. This may be irrelevant, but I find it funny that the only time that Vinny and Danny failed to make the blockbuster trade was when they tried to get rid of JC in the process.

My theory is that if he does not have a stellar year, then he will either be a backup or out of the league by 2010. Even if he does have a fairly good season his only shot at a big payday might be with Washington. At this time he has no leverage; he can only play football and prove himself.

I think your conclusion here is absolutely correct, though I think it's for a completely different reason than what you went through.

The fact of the matter is, that the league is overloaded with capable quarterbacks with considerable short term upside who are toiling somewhere buried on rosters. These players either had their development cut short no fault of their own (Leftwich, nearly Campbell and Brees, and to a lesser extent, Patrick Ramsey) after proving that they belonged at this level. That's one type of player. The other type didn't even have a chance to get screwed over on a poorly run team, as the draft process buried them in NFL obscurity.

A team who wanted to build a winner without spending money at the QB position could do so. You could just have a yearly revolving door of reclamation project quarterbacks who have performed well in the past, and will play for you at the league minimum. Your competitive advantage would be established throughout the rest of your team. While other teams tirelessly exert resources trying to find a great quarterback, you could easily get better quarterback play off the waiver wire.

Of course, thanks to the obscene salary floor, this penny pinching philosophy wouldn't make any sense. You have to spend the money, so why not spend it at every position instead of being selective?

If the salary floor and cap were eliminated, the Jason Campbells, Daunte Culpeppers, and Byron Leftwich's of the world could move from larger market draft pick to smaller market QB of the present. The incentive to save the money would be there for the smaller market teams. In the current system, they can afford to pay the David Garrard and Trent Edwards' of the world mid-level type money despite having no discernable difference between them and the Culpeppers/Leftwich's of the world except that they might become a franchise QB in 2013.

If Campbell earns his extension here, it wouldn't be for Big Ben or Eli type money. It would be for Garrard type money. But that's to an extent, unfair, because Campbell would have had to compete at the level of the Big Bens or Eli's to even have a shot at his contract extension. In the current system, despite the revenue gap between teams, players are still percieved well outside their actual performance level. In a true free market system, the stratification of wealth would help deserving players get multiple oppertunities.

GTripp0012 · 06-26-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry

Edit: Unless he has a great season, which I don't see happening. Good, maybe, great, no.

If Campbell does:

338/515, 66%, 23 TD/8 INT, 3,605 yards, 7.0 Y/A: QB Rating of 94.4
(this is my mean projection for Campbell)

Is that "great" or merely good?

Based on last year's offensive environment, he would be 6th in the NFL in QB rating.

Mattyk · 06-26-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If Campbell does:

338/515, 66%, 23 TD/8 INT, 3,605 yards, 7.0 Y/A: QB Rating of 94.4
(this is my mean projection for Campbell)

Is that "great" or merely good?

Based on last year's offensive environment, he would be 6th in the NFL in QB rating.

He's certainly capable of that type of production.

skinsfan69 · 06-26-2009, 09:09 PM

JC just needs to start taking more chances and stop playing dink and dunk ball. I don't buy the notion that Zorn isn't calling deep passes. Until he does that then his TD numbers will not improve and that's the bottom line. I don't care about comp. %, or rating. Make more big plays in the passing game and get your team in the end zone and all the stats will take care of itself. Until he does that then he'll never get a big contract. It's put up or shut up for Jason Campbell.

skinsfan69 · 06-26-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

HeraldNet: Redskins' past and present, Zorn and Gibbs spend a day at the races

Gibbs is 100% correct. Put the team on your back and drive the offense down the field and win the game. Gibbs tried to get John Elway. It's just part of the business. You have to have some thick ass skin to play QB in the NFL.

WaldSkins · 06-26-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If Campbell does:

338/515, 66%, 23 TD/8 INT, 3,605 yards, 7.0 Y/A: QB Rating of 94.4
(this is my mean projection for Campbell)

Is that "great" or merely good?

Based on last year's offensive environment, he would be 6th in the NFL in QB rating.

that's a big if

44Deezel · 06-26-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

JC just needs to start taking more chances and stop playing dink and dunk ball. I don't buy the notion that Zorn isn't calling deep passes. Until he does that then his TD numbers will not improve and that's the bottom line. I don't care about comp. %, or rating. Make more big plays in the passing game and get your team in the end zone and all the stats will take care of itself. Until he does that then he'll never get a big contract. It's put up or shut up for Jason Campbell.

Ditto. Stop blaming the WRs. Lots of teams have sucky receivers, but they still manage to score points - Miami, San Diego, Tennessee, Atlanta (well, when Vick was there they sucked). I've seen Miami march 80 yards down the field without throwing a single pass to a WR. New Orleans had so many WR injuries last year, they started putting random guys from the crowd into the game. Brees kept on hitting them for long gains. It's all about Campbell. No more excuses.

tryfuhl · 06-26-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

No, he is a good QB with not much to work with. He has his flaws of course, but that is only half the problem. Crappy WRs and an always banged up line spells trouble in the NFL and the NFC East. Last season he ranked 13th in passing even with such a crappy supporting cast minus CP and Moss. Think of the potential if he had a solid line and decent WRs. Believe me if Gus Frerotte could land a starting QB gig in 2008, I am sure a younger JC could land one anywhere if he told the Skins to take a hike. He could easily vye for at least a dozen starting jobs upon leaving the Skins.

Well JC doesn't reverse age.

44Deezel · 06-26-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

He's certainly capable of that type of production.

23 TDs, yes. With only 8 picks, no. 23/15 is more reasonable, but I would much rather see that than 13/6.

Lotus · 06-26-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

23 TDs, yes. With only 8 picks, no. 23/15 is more reasonable, but I would much rather see that than 13/6.

Why not split your difference and make it 23 TD's, 12 INT's, a passer rating around 90, and, combined with a bad-ass defense, win the division? Many teams would want JC then. In this scenario, I would be angry if the FO did not offer him a big enough contract to keep him.

Mattyk · 06-26-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

23 TDs, yes. With only 8 picks, no. 23/15 is more reasonable, but I would much rather see that than 13/6.

That would be a big jump in INTs for him.

For his career he has thrown 23 INTs over 36 games. Or .6388 INT for every 1 start. Your prediction has him at .9375 for every 1 start.

53Fan · 06-26-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

JC just needs to start taking more chances and stop playing dink and dunk ball. I don't buy the notion that Zorn isn't calling deep passes. Until he does that then his TD numbers will not improve and that's the bottom line. I don't care about comp. %, or rating. Make more big plays in the passing game and get your team in the end zone and all the stats will take care of itself. Until he does that then he'll never get a big contract. It's put up or shut up for Jason Campbell.

Well I will agree with this. I've thought for awhile that JC plays too safe. I'm just not sure if it's him or the coaching. I don't know if it's been drilled into his head not to turn the ball over since he's been here, but at some point he needs to take control and go for it. A receiver is not always "wide open" and sometimes you have to take a shot and let him make a play. I personally would like to see him be a playmaker instead of a Trent Dilfer manage-the-game type of QB. He has shown the ability and hopefully this year he shows he can do what Gibbs said a QB needs to do. Drive the team down the field in the middle of a hailstorm. I believe he's capable of it, I just hope he believes so too.

skins89moss · 06-27-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry

It was a figure of speech meaning that the only way that he will have a job in the NFL is as a backup.

Well your name fits you well. Jason Campbell is still learning to play QB in the NFL. He had to learn a new offense every year since coming to the Redskins. Maybe fans like you need to be patient and let him grow and learn the system. We better hope JC and Zorn succeed in DC cause will be set back another 3 years. Our losing since Synder has taken over due to Coaching changes and QB changes. We can't seem to keep a QB or Coach for more than 3years at a time. We all need to hope JC can improve and resign with the Redskins. Remember teams with good defenses can make it to the Super Bowl, just ask Rex Grossmen.

skins89moss · 06-27-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

JC just needs to start taking more chances and stop playing dink and dunk ball. I don't buy the notion that Zorn isn't calling deep passes. Until he does that then his TD numbers will not improve and that's the bottom line. I don't care about comp. %, or rating. Make more big plays in the passing game and get your team in the end zone and all the stats will take care of itself. Until he does that then he'll never get a big contract. It's put up or shut up for Jason Campbell.

To get the ball down field, JC needs his line to give him time and WR to run the correct routes. Its a team game if their is a break down any where during the play it may not work. Its a team game and everyone has to do their part.

skins89moss · 06-27-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Well I will agree with this. I've thought for awhile that JC plays too safe. I'm just not sure if it's him or the coaching. I don't know if it's been drilled into his head not to turn the ball over since he's been here, but at some point he needs to take control and go for it. A receiver is not always "wide open" and sometimes you have to take a shot and let him make a play. I personally would like to see him be a playmaker instead of a Trent Dilfer manage-the-game type of QB. He has shown the ability and hopefully this year he shows he can do what Gibbs said a QB needs to do. Drive the team down the field in the middle of a hailstorm. I believe he's capable of it, I just hope he believes so too.

I wonder if JC was playing not to make a msitake or turn the ball over. He needs to know that he is our QB and no matter what we will ride with him. The coaches have to have confidence in him and let him go out and make plays. This way you let him go out succeed or fail.

06-26-2009, 09:09 PM	#49 (permalink)
skinsfan69 Pro Bowl Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,186	Re: Gibbs' take on Campbell's situation JC just needs to start taking more chances and stop playing dink and dunk ball. I don't buy the notion that Zorn isn't calling deep passes. Until he does that then his TD numbers will not improve and that's the bottom line. I don't care about comp. %, or rating. Make more big plays in the passing game and get your team in the end zone and all the stats will take care of itself. Until he does that then he'll never get a big contract. It's put up or shut up for Jason Campbell.

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Gibbs' take on Campbell's situation

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