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CB option to look at ?

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Old 08-17-2009, 04:53 PM   #16
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Re: CB option to look at ?

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Originally Posted by ChickenMonkey View Post
I agree we need a veteran CB, but not Jason David...

Mike McKenzie, Ty Law and Chris McAllister are still FA's and would be an upgrade
mcallister is big & can probably be an effective 3rd/slot corner.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:57 PM   #17
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Re: CB option to look at ?

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Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
while this thread is ironic due to the saints just cutting this dude, cb may be an area of serious concern, especially if Rogers calf is really nagging him.

I don't know whether it's good or bad that Smoot is currently way outplaying the young guys, barnes & tryon. I love Smoot & hope he's found a step he lost, but by the end of last year he didn't look like he could keep up w/most teams' 3rd wr.

Smoot is a veteran corner who knows the system. He also was pretty good in '07. He certainly isn't a bum like David.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:58 PM   #18
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Re: CB option to look at ?

Signing David would be a desperation move and we're not there... yet. Besides this is just 1 game out of 4, and there are MUCH better FA options than David.
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:03 PM   #19
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Re: CB option to look at ?

It's pre-season game 1 don't over-react.
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:14 PM   #20
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Re: CB option to look at ?

Lol you're saying we should just give up on our third round draft pick cornerback after one lousy performance in the pre-season?? huh?
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:07 PM   #21
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Re: CB option to look at ?

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Originally Posted by NYCskinfan82 View Post
It's pre-season game 1 don't over-react.
too late for most ppl
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:55 PM   #22
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Re: CB option to look at ?

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
LOL

Hey our guys suck. Let's pick up a guy that was cut after one preseason game, before the Saints even had to cut down to 75, let alone 53!
I don't buy into that line of thought. I mean as it relates to this player I agree with you but it's not like coaches and scouts are right all the time. Otherwise guys like Kurt Warner and Tom Brady would have been top overall picks.
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:50 PM   #23
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Re: CB option to look at ?

NO WAY! I live in Saint Country. Ive seen this guy each week on tv. This is not a guy we need to look at. Saint fans have been calling for his head for a long time now. Just my 2
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:58 PM   #24
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Re: CB option to look at ?

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Originally Posted by redsk1 View Post
We don't need more CB's. We're pretty set:

Rogers
Hall
Smoot
Tryon/Barnes...well, hopefully they can pick it up a little.

Damn, maybe we do need some depth. Smoot's not going to make it a full 16 games. Rogers either. Not David though, he's not very good. Hopefully our youngs can pick it up a little.
Smooty is past his prime and you need a sure thing CB to shore it up a bit. Yeah develop the youngsters for sure, but damn do you really want to have a sieve for a defensive backfield for maybe 2 more seasons trying to develop these guys? In short we do need an ace in the hole til these guys develop, if they do develop that is. This was a rather weak draft for overall talent.
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:36 PM   #25
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Re: CB option to look at ?

OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is 27 YEARS OLD.
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...
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Last edited by Hail to the Redskins; 08-17-2009 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:55 PM   #26
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Re: CB option to look at ?

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Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is 27 YEARS OLD.
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...

Dude, I know you put in a lot of time with this post but let's think about this real quick.

Who is the DC in NO? What type of defense does he run? So let me get this straight. The coordinator in New Orleans who runs a defense that is pretty damn close to what we run cuts a guy two weeks before the first cut date?

I think I will pass...
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:01 AM   #27
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Re: CB option to look at ?

So, because N.O. wanted to cut salary ... ("The economics do come into consideration," Sean Payton said. "It was best for us to move on.") ... & G Williams said they could let him go means he's not good enough to even be a nickel corner now?

After 5 INTs & 11 PD last year??

OK, well... at least that's a response based on your logic... thank you for that at least (for real, no sarcasm in that)

From what I understand, the Saints wanted to get rid of him before Williams even got there this off-season because he gave up a bunch of big plays (plays over 30-40 yards) the past 2 years against those #1 receivers (where's the safety help? lol)... the only reason they kept him was to make sure Malcolm Jenkins (14th overall pick) wasn't a bust. Jenkins has looked good in camp... J. David, gone.

He wouldn't be asked to cover any #1s (or #2s) here... and we DO run a different coverage scheme from his last DC (that was fired!)... so ... as an option, I think I'll take him.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:00 AM   #28
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Re: CB option to look at ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is 27 YEARS OLD.
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...
I'll agree with you. I think there are definitely positives to bringing him in. I think he's better than Tryon right now. The only thing is there's a limited number of spots. They're probably gonna take 5 DBs. I don't think the Redskins will cut their 4th rounder of last year or their 3rd rounder this year. That's like admitting that they drafted poorly or developed the talent poorly.

I understand you're frustration though. Every other post lately is Tryon can't succeed in this league, he's too short, we might as well cut him. Then when you propose a solution to the problem everybody acts like they never said that. It's a logical point. If any of the top 3 corners got injured for us I'd be more comfortable putting in Jason David than Justin Tryon this year, but personally I've liked what I've heard about Tryon's attitude and work ethic and hopefully it will show up soon in his game performance.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:53 AM   #29
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Re: CB option to look at ?

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Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz View Post
I played CB back when I was in the 4th grade, maybe I'd be worth looking at.
lol, thats too funny
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:12 AM   #30
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Re: CB option to look at ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins View Post
OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is 27 YEARS OLD.
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...
Correction on the designation: Randall Gay was the Saints' no. 1 corner last year. He took over as the No. 1 corner when Mike McKenzie was hurt. So David, who came into last year as the Saints nickleback, was forced into the starting lineup when McKenzie was injured AND after their second round pick, Tracy Porter, tore out his knee. David started 6 games at the end of the season when the Saints had literally no one else to put out there, even Leigh Torrence got two starts for them in weeks 16 and 17.

He was, predictably, terrible. But more significantly than that, offenses and quarterbacks KNOW that he's terrible (56 targets in only 14 games and 6 starts). Maybe the Ravens knew that Tryon was the weak link of our defense. Looked like it. Still, it's tough to say that we're not better off with the relative unknown compared to the proven failure.

The worst case scenario for a guy like Tryon is that he becomes what David currently is: an easy completion who offers the occasional INT off the poorly thrown ball and nothing else. In two years, that's exactly what Tryon might be in this league. If we fail to develop him, it could happen.

At age 27, David isn't old, but he's as good as he's going to get at the position. He might not be in decline for 3-4 years, but when you are Jason David, you aren't exactly going to be in the league long enough to reach that point.

His NFL career is probably over, but hey, Morlon Greenwood got signed yesterday instead of Derrick Brooks, so who knows.
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