What Michael Vick won't be

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Sorry, you are simply wrong. Animals have no rights (okay, now find the link about some old lady who left her money to a cat). Sure. Some people have misplaced priorities. The country, as a whole, and as evidenced by its legal system does not. You cannot get life imprisonment for intentionally torturing and killing animals. You can get life imprisonment for intentionally torturing humans.



In most, if not all states that would be homicide. However, in Stallworth's case the man who was killed was likely negligent himself which may have resulted in no charges (not sure, not a criminal defense attorney). Certainly, in MD, in a civil case, Stallworth would not have been found liable to the man he struck in such a case. (contributory negligence by a defendent is an absolute defense).

Again, you want to talk Leonard Little or Jeremy Stevens, I am all with you. Stallworth, however, is simply (as Matty states) not an appropriate comparison.



No. The bottom line is that Vick was punished in accordance with Federal Sentencing Guidelines and is free to pursue his career of choice after participating in multi-year, multi-state, illegal, deceptive and conspirational gambling practices that, if done by me, would forever bar me from ever being again practicing law (or working as an insurance agent or any other position requiring a license) and that would likely make me unemployable in any position of authority or trust. Again, we aren't even considering the fact that he lied to his former employer and to the league's commissioner about his activities.

Was he Ted Bundy? No. Is he a wrongly accused felon who should be accorded martydom? No.

Christ, how does this guy keep getting away with being portrayed as a victim??

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

All these people like that idiot Tucker Carlson that were calling for Vick to be "executed", or for him to receive a lifetime ban. Thats where my argument came from.

There are people in the NFL who have killed people, been involved in shooting, stabbings, blah blah blah, and i bet you never at any point was anybody calling for a lifetime ban.

Ben Rapistberger is slapped on the wrist after allegedly raping 2 women, but nobody cares. I just think that the media went ballistic on Vick, especially the animal rights people who are in bed with the other groups...They took a man who committed bad crimes and projected him in an even worse light. Vick was a criminal, but he is also a little bit of a victim when you look at how so many people have tried to go out of their way to keep him from doing what he loves.

Bottom line is when crimes involving animals occur, conventional wisdom, and also common sense are thrown out the window. The best thing we all can do, myself included, is just leave this debate about Vick alone. We will never agree. I will end this with saying that I'm glad Vick is getting a second chance and i also hope that he does not revert back to his old life when he starts making big bucks again. I hope he's changed.

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Before you make moral judgements, understand what Vick was charged with. Please see Matty's earlier post (#110).

I'm glad that Vick has made the most out of his second chance. However, the moral aspect of this needs to be separated from the legal somewhat. If Vick had simply been revealed as a 'fan' of dog fighting w/no criminal charges, then people could hate him for purely moral reasons & their love of animals. The fact that he funded organized crime for years really made his legal troubles what they were, and as Matty pointed out he exacerbated it by not cooperating & also lying.

C. Cowherd brought up Vick today & named about 20 QBs he would take to start his franchise rather than Vick. He also said that the topic of Vick changes his show & really ignites people. Said he's exciting but not dependable long-term. I think the jury is still out on that (no pun intended). He then had a calller that rambled on about what Big Ben supposedly did & how everyone has committed crimes. Cowherd said repeatedly Ben wasn't charged w/anything, big difference.

Cowherd told the guy he was rationalizing bad behavior. So many people (not saying this to anyone here specifically) seem to do that w/Vick, they seem to think he got a raw deal. Would it have been different if he were running drugs or tied to the Mafia? It's still ORGANIZED CRIME & that's what ultimately was so stupid on his part. You're a franchise qb, highest paid in the nfl, and yet you choose to put funds into an illegal operation.

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

All these people like that idiot Tucker Carlson that were calling for Vick to be "executed", or for him to receive a lifetime ban. Thats where my argument came from.

There are people in the NFL who have killed people, been involved in shooting, stabbings, blah blah blah, and i bet you never at any point was anybody calling for a lifetime ban.

Ben Rapistberger is slapped on the wrist after allegedly raping 2 women, but nobody cares. I just think that the media went ballistic on Vick, especially the animal rights people who are in bed with the other groups...They took a man who committed bad crimes and projected him in an even worse light. Vick was a criminal, but he is also a little bit of a victim when you look at how so many people have tried to go out of their way to keep him from doing what he loves.

Bottom line is when crimes involving animals occur, conventional wisdom, and also common sense are thrown out the window. The best thing we all can do, myself included, is just leave this debate about Vick alone. We will never agree. I will end this with saying that I'm glad Vick is getting a second chance and i also hope that he does not revert back to his old life when he starts making big bucks again. I hope he's changed.

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

You had your last word and I will have mine:

In no way, shape or form is Vick a victim and only through the most convoluted "logic" could this once-again famous sports media darling ever be portrayed as one.

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Some people are going to hate on Vick no matter what he does.

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

...They took a man who committed bad crimes and projected him in an even worse light. Vick was a criminal, but he is also a little bit of a victim when you look at how so many people have tried to go out of their way to keep him from doing what he loves.

...

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Some people are going to hate on Vick no matter what he does.

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

First, please don't generalize about my beliefs - I try hard not to do so about others. True, I think what he did was indescribably evil. I don't think, however, that "there's no hope for him". "Fellas like me" firmly believe in redemption of the spirit. I just don't think redemption is something purchased easily - Vick has seemingly made a good start towards redemption but that is long road and Vick has barely walked the first mile.

As to all those guys who exposed him to such an environment? You know what - some will get the fixing they deserve, but, as always in life, some who deserve to be punished will skate on. It happens in all levels of society, not just in the circle Vick grew up in. All we can do as a society, is hold Vick responsible for his actions. He committed his actions, not the "culture" he was raised in. Just b/c lots of different parts of society needs "fixing", doesn't mean individuals who commit despicable acts should have those actions whitewashed.

Do you think Vick's cohorts in crime are being treated better than he? I sincerely doubt it. For sooo many jobs, if he weren't "Michael Vick, NFL QB", Vick would simply be DQ'd. Period, end of story. His co-conspirators don't have the physical talents that make them everyone's media darling ("Oh, look, Vick is throwing touchdowns, let's help him get 'rehabilitated'!"). No, it is more likely they will actually have to really work at regaining society's trust.

As I said, sure there is hope for Vick's redemption. From your posts, however, you appear to think redemption is something to be given based on jail time and a few good acts done while in the spotlight of fame and fortune. I, on the other hand, believe it to be something purchased much more dearly.

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

At least come out and say what you've got against Vick. I know your an animal owner. Is that the reason why? I looked back at your posts and it just seemed to me like you went out of your way to bash the man. Is it something other than that???