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Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Old 09-03-2009, 02:25 PM   #166
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Interesting. My only remote recollection of Dishman as a player is from his post-Washington years, in KC and Minnesota. So I PFR'ed him and found some similarities with him and Fletch.

Both posted near-career highs in AV (approximate value) in year n, but I think what seperates Dishman from Fletcher is that his performance in that one year (1997) appears to have been completely out of line with the rest of his career. When he did fall, it was just a little bit past (age-adjusted?) his former productivity. Probably felt like he just got worse overnight, but I imagine that part of that was his unexpected improvement in 1997.

On the other side, one of Fletcher's top comparables through 11 NFL seasons just happens to be Michael Barrow--the year he signed in Washington. Though its worth saying that Fletcher has been a better player throughout his career.
Some dude once said "STATS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT NOT THE ONLY FACTOR!!!"

Seriously though, Dishman's stats are misleading because, as you're aware, sometimes the best corners have the least impressive stats. Do you think Larry Brown had two interceptions in the Super Bowl against the Steelers because he was some phenom CB...or because he was lined up on the other side of Deion Sanders?

Granted, CD was initially brought here to be a nickel back (and insurance in case Tom Carter left, which he did), but still the drop off was pretty ugly

Interesting side note, a couple of players who played opposite Dishman in Houston and had some good seasons playing opposite him-Steve Jackson and Jerry Gray. I think Gray played just one season in Houston, but Jackson played his whole career in Houston/Tennessee
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:32 PM   #167
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Some dude once said "STATS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT NOT THE ONLY FACTOR!!!"

Seriously though, Dishman's stats are misleading because, as you're aware, sometimes the best corners have the least impressive stats. Do you think Larry Brown had two interceptions in the Super Bowl against the Steelers because he was some phenom CB...or because he was lined up on the other side of Deion Sanders?

Granted, CD was initially brought here to be a nickel back (and insurance in case Tom Carter left, which he did), but still the drop off was pretty ugly

Interesting side note, a couple of players who played opposite Dishman in Houston and had some good seasons playing opposite him-Steve Jackson and Jerry Gray. I think Gray played just one season in Houston, but Jackson played his whole career in Houston/Tennessee
I used AV because it (tries) to use unit performance as a base, and divide the credit according to the playing time in the unit. As it goes (and I've yet to verify this elsewhere) Washington probably had excellent pass defense in 1997, but dropped off in 1998 significantly, with Dishman being an obvious example.

There is, of course, a reason the A is for approximate. I'm completely bastardizing the purpose of the stat.

And Al Davis agrees with me that Larry Brown was actually a phenom cornerback, and not some scumbag graduate of Prime U! (Completely kidding. Except the Davis part.)
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:39 PM   #168
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

Regardless of who our #2 and #3 RBs are, the thought occurred to me that neither Rock or Betts will likely still be on the team in 2 years. We're financially committed to Portis, but neither of them is particularly explosive, and other than one great stretch a couple of years ago for Betts, neither of them has done much of anything as an RB in the NFL. What i'm getting to is that within the next 2 years, we're probably going to use a high draft pick or two on a running back to spell Portis on a more consistent basis and add some "UMPH!" to our running attack. So in the long-term, it doesnt really matter who makes the roster behind Portis now; so we might as well pick the guy(s) we think have the best chance to make an impact now. If we really need special teams help, then Rock stays. If we don't there,s no reason to keep him around. Betts is useless on special teams, so what we have to ask is, are Mason, Alridge, or Dorsey better complimentary backs to Portis than Betts. If not, then there's no reason to cut Betts.

One other thing to consider is even if we added Mason, Aldridge, or Dorsey as an extra running back, they probably wouldnt be active on gameday, since the plan would always be to have Rock for Special-Teams-Only and Betts for Backing-Up-Portis-Only and Sellars is our Only FullBack. So the only reason to keep a 5th back on the 53-man roster is because we are worried about injuries and feel the potential 5th back is so amazing that he wouldnt last on our practice squad. From that perspective, I don't think Mason, Aldridge, or Dorsey deserves to be a 5th back, who will always be inactive on gameday. I could potentially accept it if one of them made it at the expense of Betts or Cartwright, but not as a 5th guy. If thats the plan, we'd be better served to place two of them on the practice squad and see who sticks.

At the end of the day, i'd be truly shocked if our RB situation doesnt look exactly like it did last year. The only option i can really see is trading Aldridge for Cartwright. The dude's got some serious speed and Cartwright doesnt really contribute as much to this team as some think he does. Remember, despite all the talk about how vital he is to our special teams, not a single team in the 31-team league wanted him when he was a FA last year. Not one. If that's not damning, then I don't know what is.

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Old 09-03-2009, 02:44 PM   #169
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Regardless of who our #2 and #3 RBs are, the thought occurred to me that neither Rock or Betts will likely still be on the team in 2 years. We're financially committed to Portis, but neither of them is particularly explosive, and other than one great stretch a couple of years ago for Betts, neither of them has done much of anything as an RB in the NFL. What i'm getting to is that within the next 2 years, we're probably going to use a high draft pick or two on a running back to spell Portis on a more consistent basis and add some "UMPH!" to our running attack. So in the long-term, it doesnt really matter who makes the roster behind Portis now; so we might as well pick the guy(s) we think have the best chance to make an impact NOW.
We're not really that committed to Portis past 2010 either. He's going to be expensive to get rid of whenever we choose to go in another direction, but I think a season with an Alexander-esque 3.2 YPC is probably a prereq to Portis leaving Washington. As long as he's productive, we'll keep employing him.

I agree that the only logical reason that the team wouldn't have spent a late round pick on a back this year is that they are at least planning on using a second rounder on one next year. We could have had Javon Ringer or James Davis in the 5th round instead of Cody Glenn, but the team thought Glenn offered more on special teams, and that they could do better than Ringer or Davis.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:49 PM   #170
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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We're not really that committed to Portis past 2010 either. He's going to be expensive to get rid of whenever we choose to go in another direction, but I think a season with an Alexander-esque 3.2 YPC is probably a prereq to Portis leaving Washington. As long as he's productive, we'll keep employing him.

I agree that the only logical reason that the team wouldn't have spent a late round pick on a back this year is that they are at least planning on using a second rounder on one next year. We could have had Javon Ringer or James Davis in the 5th round instead of Cody Glenn, but the team thought Glenn offered more on special teams, and that they could do better than Ringer or Davis.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:01 PM   #171
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Pretty well said.

DMV, the self-contradicting points you are making are further undermining your credibility here at the Warpath. I doubt anyone is taking you seriously at this point, I certainly am not.

I'd rather discuss something intelligently with someone capable of doing so. Peace out, I'm done with you.
What was self contradicting? No I basically see it as you and your two cronies as being self assigned elder statesman of the board. You all gang up on people and try to make their opinion invalid. Its a opinion not fact. If everyone had the same opinions. What would we have to talk about on this board??? I also see you all are also doing this to other people on this board. Who cares if you take me seriously dude? I am beginning to really think you are a dork. Because this board is your home. I post my thoughts and opinions. Because I want to. Not for you only. This is the US. I can say what the f--k I want and for you to insult my intelligence because you can't comprehend or agree with what I am saying makes you an asshole. You probably voted for Bush both times didn't you. You probably think the WMD's are still out there. Dude I could care less what you think. Your gum under my shoe. Better yet crap under my shoe.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:04 PM   #172
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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We're not really that committed to Portis past 2010 either. He's going to be expensive to get rid of whenever we choose to go in another direction, but I think a season with an Alexander-esque 3.2 YPC is probably a prereq to Portis leaving Washington. As long as he's productive, we'll keep employing him.

I agree that the only logical reason that the team wouldn't have spent a late round pick on a back this year is that they are at least planning on using a second rounder on one next year. We could have had Javon Ringer or James Davis in the 5th round instead of Cody Glenn, but the team thought Glenn offered more on special teams, and that they could do better than Ringer or Davis.
Man I was pulling really hard for Javon Ringer pre-draft, and was really annoyed when we took Glenn. I'll be even more annoyed when Glenn gets cut. Given Jonathan Stewart's health right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ringer see some time in Carolina. He's a burner with nice strength and would have made sense with our 5th pick. If Marko pans out, I guess I can forgive Vinny.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:09 PM   #173
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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What was self contradicting? No I basically see it as you and your two cronies as being self assigned elder statesman of the board. You all gang up on people and try to make their opinion invalid. Its a opinion not fact. If everyone had the same opinions. What would we have to talk about on this board??? I also see you all are also doing this to other people on this board. Who cares if you take me seriously dude? I am beginning to really think you are a dork. Because this board is your home. I post my thoughts and opinions. Because I want to. Not for you only. This is the US. I can say what the f--k I want and for you to insult my intelligence because you can't comprehend or agree with what I am saying makes you an asshole. You probably voted for Bush both times didn't you. You probably think the WMD's are still out there. Dude I could care less what you think. Your gum under my shoe. Better yet crap under my shoe.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:13 PM   #174
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Man I was pulling really hard for Javon Ringer pre-draft, and was really annoyed when we took Glenn. I'll be even more annoyed when Glenn gets cut. Given Jonathan Stewart's health right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ringer see some time in Carolina. He's a burner with nice strength and would have made sense with our 5th pick. If Marko pans out, I guess I can forgive Vinny.
For what its worth, i think Glenn will make the team. Henson many not even make the PS. I was also pulling for Ringer. However, if the plan is to draft a true complimentary back to Portis that can scare defenses, then we really need to use atleast a #2 on the position. Looking at another thread on this post, next years draft seems pretty deep at the RB and OT positions in the first 2 rounds. Campbell is showing some promise, so unless Heyer and Mike Williams both turn into starting-quality tackles, i'd be shocked if we didnt go OT and RB with our 1st two picks next year.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:15 PM   #175
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

I have respect for a lot of people on this board..SBXVII, Gmscud, 53Fan, SmootSmack and some others. Because we can debate or disagree (even agree every now and then on certain points..lol) with each other but not take it to the extreme of name calling. I blasted off on this board because someone had to call me a half wit because I said Rock is expendable. Like I said opinions are just that opinions. The coaches have the final say. When the cuts happen we will see if Rock makes it or not. That's my finaly say..I am beginning to think. Some of these posters are players. Maybe even some coaches..lol..Is that you Danny Smith.. IS that you Rock..? LMAO

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Old 09-03-2009, 03:16 PM   #176
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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At the end of the day, i'd be truly shocked if our RB situation doesnt look exactly like it did last year. The only option i can really see is trading Aldridge for Cartwright. The dude's got some serious speed and Cartwright doesnt really contribute as much to this team as some think he does. Remember, despite all the talk about how vital he is to our special teams, not a single team in the 31-team league wanted him when he was a FA last year. Not one. If that's not damning, then I don't know what is.

Good point!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:22 PM   #177
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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What was self contradicting? No I basically see it as you and your two cronies as being self assigned elder statesman of the board. You all gang up on people and try to make their opinion invalid. Its a opinion not fact. If everyone had the same opinions. What would we have to talk about on this board??? I also see you all are also doing this to other people on this board. Who cares if you take me seriously dude? I am beginning to really think you are a dork. Because this board is your home. I post my thoughts and opinions. Because I want to. Not for you only. This is the US. I can say what the f--k I want and for you to insult my intelligence because you can't comprehend or agree with what I am saying makes you an asshole. You probably voted for Bush both times didn't you. You probably think the WMD's are still out there. Dude I could care less what you think. Your gum under my shoe. Better yet crap under my shoe.
So now you're argument is that "it's just an opinion?" You're arguing an awful lot to take that kind of passive-aggressive stance.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:24 PM   #178
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Old 09-03-2009, 03:26 PM   #179
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08 View Post
What was self contradicting? No I basically see it as you and your two cronies as being self assigned elder statesman of the board. You all gang up on people and try to make their opinion invalid. Its a opinion not fact. If everyone had the same opinions. What would we have to talk about on this board??? I also see you all are also doing this to other people on this board. Who cares if you take me seriously dude? I am beginning to really think you are a dork. Because this board is your home. I post my thoughts and opinions. Because I want to. Not for you only. This is the US. I can say what the f--k I want and for you to insult my intelligence because you can't comprehend or agree with what I am saying makes you an asshole. You probably voted for Bush both times didn't you. You probably think the WMD's are still out there. Dude I could care less what you think. Your gum under my shoe. Better yet crap under my shoe.
Dude, please chill.

Also please notice that you are free to offer your opinions, as you said. But others are also free not to give a hoot about your opinions. That is because opinions are not created equal. There is such a thing as a bad opinion. For example, if I opined that we should cut Samuels and start Colt Brennan at left tackle, most people here would consider that to be a poor opinion.

So take a deep breath and chill. Perhaps take a break from the Warpath. Whatever. But chill.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:31 PM   #180
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Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

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Dude, please chill.

Also please notice that you are free to offer your opinions, as you said. But others are also free not to give a hoot about your opinions. That is because opinions are not created equal. There is such a thing as a bad opinion. For example, if I opined that we should cut Samuels and start Colt Brennan at left tackle, most people here would consider that to be a poor opinion.

So take a deep breath and chill. Perhaps take a break from the Warpath. Whatever. But chill.
I am chill dude. You need to talk to the Rock lovers. To call me a half-wit and not intelligent because I said Rock is expendable is assinine. Wasn't going to let that slide. Who is to say if it is a bad opinion or not? You can't compare Rock being expendable to the example you just used. Not comparable at all. I will break when I want to break. Rock is such a touchy issue on this board. Maybe because he is the most awesome ST player ever!! If he gets cut I am ramming crow down all your throats. If not I will come on here and say I was a half-wit and dont know shit about football and will ban myself from this board. Cool? LMAO
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