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Offensive Review: Giants

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Old 09-16-2009, 11:18 PM   #16
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

Sweeeeeeeeet! These are easily my fav threads on the warpath. I'm excited to see how the new lineman yards approach settles out after three games.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:23 PM   #17
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

GTripp, I was watching the game with some very "passionate" skins fans. All were complain that even before the fumble or the pick, JC looked flustered. They said he looked/played better in the opening, but later in the game, his motions/face/movements etc. were flustered therefore impacting his place.

They were basically saying he was adversely affected(I guess mentally) by the G-men and the medowlands. Did you notice any of this during your review? Thanks.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:26 PM   #18
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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GTripp, I was watching the game with some very "passionate" skins fans. All were complain that even before the fumble or the pick, JC looked flustered. They said he looked/played better in the opening, but later in the game, his motions/face/movements etc. were flustered therefore impacting his place.

They were basically saying he was adversely affected(I guess mentally) by the G-men and the medowlands. Did you notice any of this during your review? Thanks.
If anything, there was some frustration with the amount of time Zorn was taking to pick one of 14 different versions of the exact same screen and get the play in, I'm certain that Campbell just wanted to call a play and go run it, instead of having to run up to the line and quickly snap the ball or take a timeout.

I'm pretty sure nothing actually flusters Jason Campbell. The team had to dangle him out by a thread this offseason before we could confirm he even has emotions.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:30 PM   #19
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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If anything, there was some frustration with the amount of time Zorn was taking to pick one of 14 different versions of the exact same screen and get the play in, I'm certain that Campbell just wanted to call a play and go run it, instead of having to run up to the line and quickly snap the ball or take a timeout.

I'm pretty sure nothing actually flusters Jason Campbell. The team had to dangle him out by a thread this offseason before we could confirm he even has emotions.
LOL good one.

I'm curious what you're opinion is on this one trip: what if Zorn just put the ball in Jason's hands so to speak? I know he's still climbing the learning curve of the WCO but I think we all know he studies his butt off...at this point he's probably got the playbook down. This question is sort of like asking who's offensive instincts do you trust more, Zorn or JC?
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:37 PM   #20
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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LOL good one.

I'm curious what you're opinion is on this one trip: what if Zorn just put the ball in Jason's hands so to speak? I know he's still climbing the learning curve of the WCO but I think we all know he studies his butt off...at this point he's probably got the playbook down. This question is sort of like asking who's offensive instincts do you trust more, Zorn or JC?
Let me put it this way: tomorrow, I'm doing a breakdown of Lions-Saints for my NFL blog. The average Lions game takes ~3:25. The average Skins game takes about a hour less than that.

What does this have to do with what you asked? The Skins offense (and defense) manages to make 9-10 total possessions last an entire game, whereas a team like the Lions who actually throws some incomplete passes and interceptions can get 14-16 possessions into regulation. That ends up being a difference of 20-25 plays per game. In a Redskins game, a wasted play can cost the Redskins what, two points or so in offensive potential? Good offenses only score on about 40% of their possessions, so if Zorn's offense scores 4 times in a game, it's doing well for itself.

Of course, 2 TDs and 2 FGs is what, 20 points? That's less than people would like to see, and that's the offense doing well for itself.

To answer your question, I think Jason and Zorn both have high football IQs, but if you put the ball in Jason's hands 40 times a game, it increases the margin for error. Zorn wastes too many plays to have a high powered offense. If Jason got more chances, he could make more plays and I think, in the long-run, win more games.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:49 PM   #21
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

Do we run soooo far fewer plays because of the higher proportion of short passes or Zorn taking a long time to get the call in (something I really noticed Sunday) or a combination of factors?
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:56 PM   #22
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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Do we run soooo far fewer plays because of the higher proportion of short passes or Zorn taking a long time to get the call in (something I really noticed Sunday) or a combination of factors?
It's such a remarkably extreme trend that I would just have to say simply: yes.

Nothing contributed to the *number 4* overall defense more than the fact that they simply didn't have to face as many drives as anyone else.
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:03 AM   #23
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

GTripp0012, you need to be on staff with our beloved Skins.

Great stuff!
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:16 PM   #24
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

Great read... But I watched that first half again and I think the review is slightly too positive for what I saw.

After that first Portis run I had butterflies in my stomach, but it all went downhill from there. With JC throwing 3 yards after the LOS - for an interception, and then on the next drive dropping back 20 yards into a DE for a fumble-touchdown... That was just a pitiful series, and I didn't see anything positive in the first half.. Moss throwing punches, Kelly and Orakpo non-existent, and Hall getting torched.. The score to Cooley was against the first-team defense, but almost in trash-time in the game. Our only other offensive outburst was a fake-FG TD..

I'm hoping you're right and this was just a great Giants defense & recent Super Bowl team who we had trouble with. I'm hoping we win the next 3-4-5 games against inferior opponents, and then get our acts together. We still could be very dangerous if we continue to improve.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:34 PM   #25
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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Great read... But I watched that first half again and I think the review is slightly too positive for what I saw.

After that first Portis run I had butterflies in my stomach, but it all went downhill from there. With JC throwing 3 yards after the LOS - for an interception, and then on the next drive dropping back 20 yards into a DE for a fumble-touchdown... That was just a pitiful series, and I didn't see anything positive in the first half.. Moss throwing punches, Kelly and Orakpo non-existent, and Hall getting torched.. The score to Cooley was against the first-team defense, but almost in trash-time in the game. Our only other offensive outburst was a fake-FG TD..

I'm hoping you're right and this was just a great Giants defense & recent Super Bowl team who we had trouble with. I'm hoping we win the next 3-4-5 games against inferior opponents, and then get our acts together. We still could be very dangerous if we continue to improve.
I think this post clarifies why I like Tripp's reviews. As a fan, I watch every game with a jaded view. I can see the game a thousand times, but each time I will root for ARE to throw it away - rationally I know he won't because I've seen it a thousand times but as I watch I get caught up in the split second hope/disappointment. My reviews would all be similar to ethat's or vice versa, overly positive in a good game. Tripp has the ability to step back, look play by play, frame by frame, and speak with a high level objectivity (disregarding our DC for the moment ), and then digest and express back to us in a way that allows us to look at it through a more objective eye.

Thank you again Tripp
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:08 AM   #26
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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Here are the routes: Moss is running a skinny post, and is double covered. Fred Davis is running a drag and is not open. Chris Cooley made an outside release and is running the over (the middle) route at about 12 yards. Campbell wants to go to Cooley with the football, and sets up waiting for him to come open. Except, as Cooley heads across the middle of the field, he never does come free. With only 3 receivers in downfield patterns, the Giants have the play defended.
I think Zorn loses the chess match with the opposing DC too often.

He got beat bad on the series before the half when he called the run, then the screen, then JC got sacked on a safety blitz.

Thankfully, Danny Smith and Hunter the Punter bailed him out.




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I thought the playcalling left a lot to be desired in the second half initially
This game gave me real pause about Zorn's ability as a playcaller.
Every since the Steelers game his playcalling has been suspect, imo.
I can't beleive he's the same guy that called the 1st Dallas game.

I was dissappointed with the number of 1st down runs.
I wanted to see more I-Form runs to set up imo our best plays I-Form play-action passing.



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The problem is that no matter what Zorn ran in the second half, the Giants just never seemed to let the Redskins isolate Johnson. He was lined up against Malcolm Kelly most of the game and was given a safety over the top on virtually every play. That meant that Corey Webster was not getting safety help against Santana Moss, making it the key match-up in the game. Moss' stat line: 5 targets, 2 catches, 6 yards, no TDs, one pass intercepted (by Webster).
Zorn has got to force the defense into giving him the match-ups he wants, or find away to get Moss open.

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Moss completely gave up on route. He drew a safety as well as Terrell Thomas, made a cut to the inside, and kind of jogged over the middle while Campbell went down. I guarentee you Zorn didn't call that route, and Moss' complete lack of effort is very disheartening.
I don't know what was going on with Moss, it reminded me of the '07 Green Bay game.

It seemed like Moss didn't have his head in the game and Webster was eating his freakin lunch!

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Antwaan Randle El is carving out a niche as a third down machine.
+1

Quote:
Cooley's seam route for the touchdown was a perfectly executed thing of beauty.
+1
I've always felt that this combo could be the staple of our passing attack.
JC to Cooley down the seam.

Good Stuff as usually Trip
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:40 AM   #27
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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Let me take you through that decisive play. The Redskins are near midfield after converting a critical third down pass. It's first and ten, and Zorn is looking to attack the defense. They are already trailing 10-0 and last drive, Campbell was intercepted. So you can imagine how the team is looking for a score.

They come out in a power formation, with Fred Davis and Chris Cooley to the right and Santana Moss split to the left with Portis and Sellers in an I-Formation. Campbell takes the snap, play actions a lead play to Portis (the Redskins never actually run a lead play though), and sets up deep, about 9 yards behind the Center.

Here are the routes: Moss is running a skinny post, and is double covered. Fred Davis is running a drag and is not open. Chris Cooley made an outside release and is running the over (the middle) route at about 12 yards. Campbell wants to go to Cooley with the football, and sets up waiting for him to come open. Except, as Cooley heads across the middle of the field, he never does come free. With only 3 receivers in downfield patterns, the Giants have the play defended.

Campbell has room to step up and run with the football for at least three or four yards, but never steps up. At the last second, his eyes go to Mike Sellers to check the ball down in the middle of the field, but as soon as his hands break, Osi gets to the ball and strips him. Normally, the Redskins have a back in the backfield to make the recovery or at very least, the tackle, but on this particular play, both backs were in check down routes. Once the ball is stripped, and Umenyiora got it quickly, there was no one on their feet in position to make a play.
It looked like Cooley was in single coverage and had position with his body. Does he need to be "open" on that play in order for Campbell to attempt a throw? Guys make catches all over the league with defenders on their back, but it seems that single coverage isn't good enough for Campbell. Don't you have to give your receivers a chance to make a play when they're in single coverage? Also looked like he had plenty of room to run.
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:38 AM   #28
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

GTripp, this is some very interesting stuff. Thanks for taking the time to post it for us.

Is there some place on the internet where I can look at game film?
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:06 AM   #29
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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It looked like Cooley was in single coverage and had position with his body. Does he need to be "open" on that play in order for Campbell to attempt a throw? Guys make catches all over the league with defenders on their back, but it seems that single coverage isn't good enough for Campbell. Don't you have to give your receivers a chance to make a play when they're in single coverage? Also looked like he had plenty of room to run.
It was hard to see, but the Giants dropped into Zone on this play. Cooley had cleared the MLB, but the OLB's drop is what forced Campbell to hold the throw. If JC protected the ball better and stepped up, he would've had the extra .5 sec for Davis to clear the OLB underneath and make the completion to Davis.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:33 AM   #30
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Re: Offensive Review: Giants

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LOL good one.

I'm curious what you're opinion is on this one trip: what if Zorn just put the ball in Jason's hands so to speak? I know he's still climbing the learning curve of the WCO but I think we all know he studies his butt off...at this point he's probably got the playbook down. This question is sort of like asking who's offensive instincts do you trust more, Zorn or JC?
I don't know how much he's studied, but he seems to be slow to translate what he's learned unto the field.

Zorn seems to be that way too. I know this discussion has been beaten to death , but it might be the case of having the wrong qb and coach for the redskins. They both require some years to develop and the redskins front office and fans don't have that patience.
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