Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

SmootSmack · 09-21-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think the fundamental question regarding the offense is whether the system is wrong, or if the players just aren't that good. I'm beginning to think it's the latter.

The only bonafide star that other teams would really want is Chris Cooley. But tight ends usually aren't going to be the difference makers in this league. Clinton Portis at this point in his career is good enough to get yardage, but he's no longer a game-breaking threat. We've got two young receivers that have yet to prove themselves, while our so-called #1, Santana Moss, isn't showing up. ARE is a possession guy who, again, isn't a game-breaker.

Point is, we didn't have the playmakers last year, and we don't have them again this year.

Cooley didn't enter the league as a bonafide star. My point being how are we going to see if guys like Kelly, Mitchell, Fred Davis (heck, even Marcus Mason) can contribute if they're not given the right opportunities? What makes Colston and Robert Meachem for example so much better than Kelly and Mitchell? It's opportunities. I don't buy that we don't have the players to make things happen.

TheMalcolmConnection · 09-21-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Cooley didn't enter the league as a bonafide star. My point being how are we going to see if guys like Kelly, Mitchell, Fred Davis (heck, even Marcus Mason) can contribute if they're not given the right opportunities? What makes Colston and Robert Meachem for example so much better than Kelly and Mitchell? It's opportunities. I don't buy that we don't have the players to make things happen.

I agree. I think other teams put their rookies in a position to succeed while we do the opposite. I have a hard time believing that we missed on ALL 3 second round picks. It seems like every time we throw a deep ball to Kelly or Thomas, Campbell misses them. I think Campbell has played very well, but we need to keep feeding these guys the ball.

roth74va · 09-21-2009, 01:55 PM

I liked......
McIntosh-was flying around making plays.
Horton-this guy is gonna be a beast.
Rogers-regardless of his inability to catch, he is our best cover corner. They need to start negotiating now, maybe we can save some money in the long run.

I didnt like...
Heyer-he is clearly a backup, several plays it looked like his feet were stuck in concrete. One play the defender was 4 yards into the backfield before his feet even moved an inch.
Moss-what happened to what was once our most explosive playmaker. ST would be disappointed, he has lost the fire.
Zorn-pathetic, but Im not surprised. If some dumbass(ME) can sit there and predict 95% of your plays, what makes you think its gonna surprise Spag's? This guy was a good QB coach, but he is in WAY over his head as the head coach.

BDBohnzie · 09-21-2009, 01:58 PM

Zorn needs to work on the Red Zone calling and personnel. He's trying to be too fancy and it's biting him in the ass.

It's hard for me to believe that the Rams were able to take Cooley out of the game in the 2nd half (6 catches, 65 yards in the 1st half, 1 catch, 18 yards in the 2nd). And if that is the case, someone else (ARE, Moss, Kelly, Davis, etc) should have had a field day. The Rams pass defense isn't that good.

It's a shame that Devin Thomas hasn't stepped up to overtake Moss. I'd love to see Moss in the slot abusing nickel and dimers, and push ARE to the 4. Because from the looks of things, Moss will be outplayed all year long in the #1 spot.

roth74va · 09-21-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

It's a shame that Devin Thomas hasn't stepped up to overtake Moss. I'd love to see Moss in the slot abusing nickel and dimers, and push ARE to the 4. Because from the looks of things, Moss will be outplayed all year long in the #1 spot.

Im tired of Moss, his heart should really be questioned. His effort so far IMO has been pathetic at best. Kelly looked like he is coming along, I wouldnt object to seeing more of Mitchell either. Moss doesnt deserve to bump ARE, ARE is looking great in the slot. After ST's death Moss played with so much emotion, he needs to get back to that. If he cant step up then trade Moss and get whatever you can for him at this point!!!

12thMan · 09-21-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think the fundamental question regarding the offense is whether the system is wrong, or if the players just aren't that good. I'm beginning to think it's the latter.

The only bonafide star that other teams would really want is Chris Cooley. But tight ends usually aren't going to be the difference makers in this league. Clinton Portis at this point in his career is good enough to get yardage, but he's no longer a game-breaking threat. We've got two young receivers that have yet to prove themselves, while our so-called #1, Santana Moss, isn't showing up. ARE is a possession guy who, again, isn't a game-breaker.

Point is, we didn't have the playmakers last year, and we don't have them again this year.

We agree more often than not, but I'm going with the former on this one. I think it's system. However, the truth is usually found somewhere in the middle. But if I had to put it on one or the other I would say it's Zorn. Has to be. This team moved the ball up and down the field yesterday, almost at will, until it got into the red zone. The same Redskins players that amassed those stats between the 20s marched right into the red zone. It wasn't the players that changed, it was the play calling and the tempo. That's on Jim Zorn. Besides, how would you know if you have playmakers if you don't call the right plays to even find out? Further when I look around the league, there are more mediocre and average players than great ones. So it's not about having a stud at every position.

The Cowboys took Brandon Jacobs out of the game last night, so what does Coughlin do? He kept chucking the ball to Manningham. At some point Tom Couglin said, we can't score 30 points and keep up with the Cowboys pounding the ball up the middle. So he abandoned the run relatively early and spread the ball around. They even lost one of their top receivers and top defenders, both playmakers, and still pulled it out. That's good coaching.

Mattyk · 09-21-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thMan

We agree more often than not, but I'm going with the former on this one. I think it's system. However, the truth is usually found somewhere in the middle. But if I had to put it on one or the other I would say it's Zorn. Has to be. This team moved the ball up and down the field yesterday, almost at will, until it got into the red zone. The same Redskins players that amassed those stats between the 20s marched right into the red zone. It wasn't the players that changed, it was the play calling and the tempo. That's on Jim Zorn. Besides, how would you know if you have playmakers if you don't call the right plays to even find out? Further when I look around the league, there are more mediocre and average players than great ones. So it's not about having a stud at every position.

The Cowboys took Brandon Jacobs out of the game last night, so what does Coughlin do? He kept chucking the ball to Manningham. At some point Tom Couglin said, we can't score 30 points and keep up with the Cowboys pounding the ball up the middle. So he abandoned the run relatively early and spread the ball around. They even lost one of their top receivers and top defenders, both playmakers, and still pulled it out. That's good coaching.

What was that stat they flashed during the game, something like the Skins avg yards per play was over 7 outside of the RZ and it dropped to 1 something in the RZ? Kinda points to a play calling issue to me.

franklinhimself · 09-21-2009, 03:54 PM

I've always been a JC supporter, and now more than ever I feel some sympathy needs to be extended his way All the systems he's had to learn and forget about, and a HC in Zorn that's too much of a prick to trust him with the RZ offense. I want JC to succeed. I hope it's here in Washington. He's a mature player who's been in some situations where he's had to call a play or two on his own because the helmet microphone cut out.

A losing record this year I personally think means a major overhaul. New D coordinator, new O-coordinator, new HC

franklinhimself · 09-21-2009, 03:57 PM

O, and maybe Vinny can pull a Bellichik and trade Moss to Oakland for a future 1st round pick.

mlmdub130 · 09-21-2009, 04:11 PM

Anyone who says JC should not be blamed, watch the first play again, completely under threw Kelly with what should have been a TD, then to throw the ball 100 mph at deven thomas when he is 8 yards away from you. Whiles there is now way it is all JC's fault there is a lot of blame to be placed on his shoulders, as weel as some other players. But the majority of the blame lies soley on Zorns shoulders. Danny Smith has to basically tackle him to keep him from leaving an extras 25 second on the clock are you freakin kidding me. we have hjad horrific clock management all last year and already this year. Then to have portis throw the ball on 3 and goal PORTIS seriously they wre already dissrespecting our running game in the redzone so why would they buy a half back pass? And then for zorn to tell Sonny that is Sonnay had called an audible or a timeout if it were Sonny in the game Zorn would bench him WTF! Zorn is a moron anyone who thinks he is anything more than a half assed qb coach is out of their mind. Hopefully this franchise will turn around one of these days but until the real and NUMBER ONE problem this team is losing DAN SNYDER is gone we are destined to stay in the bottom of the leauge for years to come.

roth74va · 09-21-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franklinhimself

O, and maybe Vinny can pull a Bellichik and trade Moss to Oakland for a future 1st round pick.

Davis does have a "thing" for speed, I guess you dont need heart to run fast.

BDBohnzie · 09-21-2009, 04:23 PM

D.C. Sports Bog - Sonny Jurgensen Jousts With Jim Zorn

I now have a big beef with Zorn:

Quote:

"Third down, I'm the quarterback, and you call the halfback throwing the ball for me, I'm calling timeout or calling an audible," Jurgensen said. "I'm not letting the halfback throw it. That's what you pay me for."

"Well then, I would have to take you out of the game," Zorn countered. "As soon as you called timeout, I'd say what's wrong with my play, because...."

"It didn't work!" Jurgensen interrupted.

There was a long pause.

"No, but I called it to work. Alright?" Zorn said. "We called it to work. It didn't work. There were a lot of plays out there that didn't work. And I'd take you out of the game. Sorry, Sonny."

Zorn either has no confidence in Campbell inside the 20, or his ego is too damn big as a former QB to let his own QB call the shots.

So that answer a big question: Does Campbell have the chance to audible out of a play inside the red zone? Nope...

CRedskinsRule · 09-21-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

Anyone who says JC should not be blamed, watch the first play again, completely under threw Kelly with what should have been a TD, then to throw the ball 100 mph at deven thomas when he is 8 yards away from you. Whiles there is now way it is all JC's fault there is a lot of blame to be placed on his shoulders, as weel as some other players. But the majority of the blame lies soley on Zorns shoulders. Danny Smith has to basically tackle him to keep him from leaving an extras 25 second on the clock are you freakin kidding me. we have hjad horrific clock management all last year and already this year. Then to have portis throw the ball on 3 and goal PORTIS seriously they wre already dissrespecting our running game in the redzone so why would they buy a half back pass? And then for zorn to tell Sonny that is Sonnay had called an audible or a timeout if it were Sonny in the game Zorn would bench him WTF! Zorn is a moron anyone who thinks he is anything more than a half assed qb coach is out of their mind. Hopefully this franchise will turn around one of these days but until the real and NUMBER ONE problem this team is losing DAN SNYDER is gone we are destined to stay in the bottom of the leauge for years to come.

gotcha, great comments!

Hog1 · 09-21-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

I have no problem with Sonny getting after him and I love that he told Sonny that he would have taken him out of the game. At least the coach still runs this crazy show.

Hate the play, but love the question and the response.

I applaud the coach and Sonny as well. To hear some of these things from a former star QB may help in his play calling?
...........maybe...............HTTR

dmvskinzfan08 · 09-21-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Someone here made a good point that I hadn't really though of until watching the game again this morning. Why do we wait until we get in the red zone to go for the end zone?

I thought of that the other day. Why not try for the endzone when you get in field goal range. That was if you miss your target you atleast are still in field goal range. We have too many field goals in the redzone. So I would feel more comfortable taking those shots in the endzone. I just dont get the playcalling.

09-21-2009, 01:55 PM	#228
roth74va Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 336	Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams) I liked...... McIntosh-was flying around making plays. Horton-this guy is gonna be a beast. Rogers-regardless of his inability to catch, he is our best cover corner. They need to start negotiating now, maybe we can save some money in the long run. I didnt like... Heyer-he is clearly a backup, several plays it looked like his feet were stuck in concrete. One play the defender was 4 yards into the backfield before his feet even moved an inch. Moss-what happened to what was once our most explosive playmaker. ST would be disappointed, he has lost the fire. Zorn-pathetic, but Im not surprised. If some dumbass(ME) can sit there and predict 95% of your plays, what makes you think its gonna surprise Spag's? This guy was a good QB coach, but he is in WAY over his head as the head coach.

09-21-2009, 01:58 PM	#229
BDBohnzie Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederick, MD Age: 34 Posts: 4,368	Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams) Zorn needs to work on the Red Zone calling and personnel. He's trying to be too fancy and it's biting him in the ass. It's hard for me to believe that the Rams were able to take Cooley out of the game in the 2nd half (6 catches, 65 yards in the 1st half, 1 catch, 18 yards in the 2nd). And if that is the case, someone else (ARE, Moss, Kelly, Davis, etc) should have had a field day. The Rams pass defense isn't that good. It's a shame that Devin Thomas hasn't stepped up to overtake Moss. I'd love to see Moss in the slot abusing nickel and dimers, and push ARE to the 4. Because from the looks of things, Moss will be outplayed all year long in the #1 spot. __________________ Bad Things man, I mean bad things... “WE TOOK HIM IN THE SIXTH ROUND SO WE'RE NOT SMART EITHER.” - Shanny on what the Skins saw in Alfred Morris

09-21-2009, 03:54 PM	#233
franklinhimself Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 110	Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams) I've always been a JC supporter, and now more than ever I feel some sympathy needs to be extended his way All the systems he's had to learn and forget about, and a HC in Zorn that's too much of a prick to trust him with the RZ offense. I want JC to succeed. I hope it's here in Washington. He's a mature player who's been in some situations where he's had to call a play or two on his own because the helmet microphone cut out. A losing record this year I personally think means a major overhaul. New D coordinator, new O-coordinator, new HC

09-21-2009, 03:57 PM	#234
franklinhimself Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 110	Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams) O, and maybe Vinny can pull a Bellichik and trade Moss to Oakland for a future 1st round pick.

09-21-2009, 04:11 PM	#235
mlmdub130 Playmaker Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Woodbridge, VA Age: 30 Posts: 3,080	Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams) Anyone who says JC should not be blamed, watch the first play again, completely under threw Kelly with what should have been a TD, then to throw the ball 100 mph at deven thomas when he is 8 yards away from you. Whiles there is now way it is all JC's fault there is a lot of blame to be placed on his shoulders, as weel as some other players. But the majority of the blame lies soley on Zorns shoulders. Danny Smith has to basically tackle him to keep him from leaving an extras 25 second on the clock are you freakin kidding me. we have hjad horrific clock management all last year and already this year. Then to have portis throw the ball on 3 and goal PORTIS seriously they wre already dissrespecting our running game in the redzone so why would they buy a half back pass? And then for zorn to tell Sonny that is Sonnay had called an audible or a timeout if it were Sonny in the game Zorn would bench him WTF! Zorn is a moron anyone who thinks he is anything more than a half assed qb coach is out of their mind. Hopefully this franchise will turn around one of these days but until the real and NUMBER ONE problem this team is losing DAN SNYDER is gone we are destined to stay in the bottom of the leauge for years to come.

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Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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