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Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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Old 09-22-2009, 09:18 PM   #271
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
GM, look in the mirror before you judge me. You made a bad argument.

1) you can't pick and choose a span to fit the argument you want to make. That's called cherry picking. That's all I said. Nothing more, nothing less.

2) you used PF as your only evidence, knowing full well that you weren't giving us the whole story. I know you're better than this, as you post here more than enough to show that you're a bright guy.

I didn't push the argument because I know you won't always have as short a fuse as you do after watching what transpired on Sunday. I certainly don't think any less of you for being pissed off with a bad outcome. I'm pissed off, too. But if you're trying to prove that we've been just as inept as the worst offenses in the league over the past few years, you're not going to have much of an argument.
I hear you, and I wasn't trying to be judgmental, so sorry if it came off that way. I guess the way I read your post rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway, overall, is PF not a good a judge of offense? The best offenses in the league are the ones that score the most, right? Scoring is ultimately what wins ball games. As I mentioned, we've certainly been better at amassing yards than the worst teams in the league, but we're right there with them as far as our inability to move the scoreboard.

You're better than anyone on this board at using stats to back up your arguments, so I'm certainly not trying to have it out with you in that regard. Just curious why you think we're not near the bottom of the league offensively at this point.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:30 PM   #272
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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Originally Posted by GMScud View Post
I hear you, and I wasn't trying to be judgmental, so sorry if it came off that way. I guess the way I read your post rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway, overall, is PF not a good a judge of offense? The best offenses in the league are the ones that score the most, right? Scoring is ultimately what wins ball games. As I mentioned, we've certainly been better at amassing yards than the worst teams in the league, but we're right there with them as far as our inability to move the scoreboard.

You're better than anyone on this board at using stats to back up your arguments, so I'm certainly not trying to have it out with you in that regard. Just curious why you think we're not near the bottom of the league offensively at this point.
Nothing you said here is wrong, or even anything I disagree with, but when I think of total offensive potential, I think of everything: yards, points, win percentage added, drive stats, sabermetric numbers like DVOA or DYAR, I'd consider all of it. There's no reason to ignore any information.

Of course, when you put together your argument, you can't just list everything you every considered, you just use the stuff that most directly proves what you are trying to say. Like PF: it works just fine.

Unless of course, the preponderance of evidence suggests that PF (in this case) is misleading. If on no other level, is the Redskins offense comparable to Oakland or Cleveland, then the comparison is probably unwarranted. As you pointed out, we can chew up the yards and run more plays than either those teams on pretty much a weekly basis. Even if the point total of the same, it's not hard to see that an offense that scores 16 points and gets 370 yards, with no turnovers is more productive than the one that gets 16 points while amassing only 210 yards and three turnovers.

The argument that points are the end game, I feel, ignores that the actual end game is wins and losses. In strategic situations, increasing the probability of winning the game always takes precedent over maximizing points.

None of this is to say that points don't tell you anything, and that's an argument you'll never, ever hear me make. I'm just trying to point out that yeah, we've never had to endure multiple seasons of what a few other teams had to. And hopefully, this year isn't the start of a long string of ineptitude.

Understand my original response was probably too direct, and a bit unfair. But what I was trying to say was: if PF is your stat of choice, why did you only go back to 2008? If this has been a lengthy streak of ineptitude, wouldn't the trend be holding over a much longer period?

Of course, I probably ignored that you were trying to link this back to Zorn, but again, in the context of the post you responded to me with, I was never talking about Zorn.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:49 PM   #273
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
GM, look in the mirror before you judge me. You made a bad argument.

1) you can't pick and choose a span to fit the argument you want to make. That's called cherry picking. That's all I said. Nothing more, nothing less.

2) you used PF as your only evidence, knowing full well that you weren't giving us the whole story. I know you're better than this, as you post here more than enough to show that you're a bright guy.

I didn't push the argument because I know you won't always have as short a fuse as you do after watching what transpired on Sunday. I certainly don't think any less of you for being pissed off with a bad outcome. I'm pissed off, too. But if you're trying to prove that we've been just as inept as the worst offenses in the league over the past few years, you're not going to have much of an argument.
I'm lost...if the Zorn era is what we care about (and most of us are in that boat I think), how does one concoct a larger sample size? He's coached 18 total games...that's the data set, period. Cherry picking would be like picking out the last two and going "Holy shit this guy is bad!" Otherwise you look at the whole data set and see he's right there w/ the offenses of Oakland and Cleveland, but lagging beyond the Detroit offense
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:41 PM   #274
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
I know Zorn is gonna catch a lot of heat this week but Moss and Sellers flat out ruined two scoring opportunities. That shouldn't be overlooked.
I just hope that prior to turning up the heat on Moss and Sellers, people remember to take JC out of the fire for fumbling which gave the other team points.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:47 PM   #275
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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I just hope that prior to turning up the heat on Moss and Sellers, people remember to take JC out of the fire for fumbling which gave the other team points.
Are you talking about the Giants game or St. Louis? JC fumbled vs St. Louis, but we recovered it to my recollection.
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:31 AM   #276
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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Are you talking about the Giants game or St. Louis? JC fumbled vs St. Louis, but we recovered it to my recollection.
Yup, and we can forget that fumble just like we have forgotten Cooley's fumble that went out of bounds during the Giants game (which I hope never happens again).
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Old 09-23-2009, 03:08 AM   #277
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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Originally Posted by BDBohnzie View Post
Zorn needs to work on the Red Zone calling and personnel. He's trying to be too fancy and it's biting him in the ass.

It's hard for me to believe that the Rams were able to take Cooley out of the game in the 2nd half (6 catches, 65 yards in the 1st half, 1 catch, 18 yards in the 2nd). And if that is the case, someone else (ARE, Moss, Kelly, Davis, etc) should have had a field day. The Rams pass defense isn't that good.

It's a shame that Devin Thomas hasn't stepped up to overtake Moss. I'd love to see Moss in the slot abusing nickel and dimers, and push ARE to the 4. Because from the looks of things, Moss will be outplayed all year long in the #1 spot.
Well on Zorn's play calling trying to be fancy is not totally correct. How about when you call a run play our O-Line just beats the Rams D-line and we score. In Gibbs Era Our Hogs would have blown the Rams D-line out of the End Zone and Riggins would have walked in the End Zone. Our O-line is piss poor right now at run blocking. Old fashion smash mouth football in the red Zone. I saw Zorn call a run play but Portis had no were to run. Thats also on the O-line. I bet against the Lions our O-line will not let that happen again if they have some Pride.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:34 AM   #278
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Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

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We know from watching four seasons with these guys under 3 different coordinators. Our record has been mediocre to average at best, and the offense has been really the only thing keeping this team from reaching the next level. These are the "playmakers" we have on offense.

The proof is what we've seen on the field since 2006.
Fair points. I guess what I see are recently drafted guys like Kelly, Davis, Mitchell not really being given the opportunities to make plays in the end zones (instead they go to Sellers?) and wonder if we know we don't have "playmakers"

I mean I see us lining up Moss as the #1 WR and think wouldn't it be so much better to have Kelly as the #1 and Moss as even the # 3? Wouldn't it be great to line up both Kelly and Mitchell for a fade in the red zone, instead of a shovel pass to Betts?
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