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What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Old 09-22-2009, 12:38 PM   #31
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

poor execution, lack of creativity, a coach that is scared of turnovers, a QB that is terrified to make his coaches' turnover nightmare's come true, a lack of a dominant line, etc.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:43 PM   #32
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
My feelings on whats wrong with the red zone offense are summed up nicely here:

washingtonpost.com



Zorn's dellusional. He thinks he's a good play-caller, when he's not.
You don't have four drives of 13+ plays and one of 9 plays and convert 46% of 3rd downs by being a bad playcaller.

This quote in the article is the most important, "
"We have to pay attention to the detail of the work," Zorn said. "That is what it's going to take for us to continue to improve."

Zorn must look at his calls in the RZ and make the adjustments. Zorn must do his part to put the players in the right position to be successful and not be afraid to let them be successful...or fail.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:47 PM   #33
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
My feelings on whats wrong with the red zone offense are summed up nicely here:

washingtonpost.com



Zorn's dellusional. He thinks he's a good play-caller, when he's not.
If Sellers could catch the damn ball, Zorn looks like a much better play caller.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:52 PM   #34
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
If Sellers could catch the damn ball, Zorn looks like a much better play caller.
Sellers or Thomas

but still, I have heard of this thing called a "Fade Route". I am unsure it is known in these parts.... but I hear tell of its success on other fields.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:56 PM   #35
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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If Sellers could catch the damn ball, Zorn looks like a much better play caller.
By how much though? If you take away one field goal and replace with a TD and extra point we score 13 points. If I remember correctly we had 5 red zone trips. At the very least we should have had 27 points.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:59 PM   #36
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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I don't think a Power back would've made any difference.
Maybe not, if Zorn continues to run the wrong type of plays, but what if Zorn were to run better plays and we had a big back? It would have to help us.

I just don't understand why we have four RB's with basically the same skill set, none of whom is a short yardage maven. I'm convinced that we need a big back and better play-calling in the Red Zone.

Wouldn't be nice to see a big back on our team run somebody over at the goal line? Touchdown, Washington Redskins!
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:01 PM   #37
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
By how much though? If you take away one field goal and replace with a TD and extra point we score 13 points. If I remember correctly we had 5 red zone trips. At the very least we should have had 27 points.
5 was counting the kneel-down possession at the end correct? So it was really 4?
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:03 PM   #38
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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5 was counting the kneel-down possession at the end correct? So it was really 4?
If that's the case then I lower my minimum acceptable score to 24 points.
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:09 PM   #39
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

I think the answer keeps hitting us in the face. When the Giants played us they kept all their defensive lineman and LB lined up between the tackles prior to ball snap. When we played the Rams they did the same thing. Why? cause everyone knows 90% of our runs go between the tackles. All they have to do is load up the middle and stuff the lanes. When the Giants played against Dallas they only kept 3 D-lineman between the tackles. They usually had one DE at each tackle position and one DL floating between them lining up. I believe it was to contain the outside run, but due to this Dallas ran all day up the middle even walked in for a TD. Even Romo ran one up the middle.

Zorn either figures out a way to stretch the other teams defense out or we will see more games like these last two. Hell put 4 WR's in spread them out and run the ball. Even it it's a QB run.
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:13 PM   #40
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

Good thread.

I agree that throwing on 1st down once in a while would be nice. And given JC's mobility, rolling him a bit is a good option.

But execution is the key--funny thing is we only really notice lack of execution on passing plays: Sellars drop, etc. The failure of execution on a running play is harder to spot. But it could still be the cause of a failed play, rather than the play call. Now, I do think Zorn very much needs to improve there, but if we can't block at the point of attack on a run play, that's just weak.
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:21 PM   #41
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan View Post
Maybe not, if Zorn continues to run the wrong type of plays, but what if Zorn were to run better plays and we had a big back? It would have to help us.

I just don't understand why we have four RB's with basically the same skill set, none of whom is a short yardage maven. I'm convinced that we need a big back and better play-calling in the Red Zone.

Wouldn't be nice to see a big back on our team run somebody over at the goal line? Touchdown, Washington Redskins!
Agree with having a big Power back on the roster, absolutely.
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:23 PM   #42
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan View Post
Maybe not, if Zorn continues to run the wrong type of plays, but what if Zorn were to run better plays and we had a big back? It would have to help us.

I just don't understand why we have four RB's with basically the same skill set, none of whom is a short yardage maven. I'm convinced that we need a big back and better play-calling in the Red Zone.

Wouldn't be nice to see a big back on our team run somebody over at the goal line? Touchdown, Washington Redskins!
We can trade for TJ Duckett!
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:28 PM   #43
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
If Sellers could catch the damn ball, Zorn looks like a much better play caller.
I wouldn't fully blame sellers on that play, JC continues to rocket the ball in any situation. Wheres the touch on the ball?
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:31 PM   #44
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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Originally Posted by JWsleep View Post
Good thread.

I agree that throwing on 1st down once in a while would be nice. And given JC's mobility, rolling him a bit is a good option.

But execution is the key--funny thing is we only really notice lack of execution on passing plays: Sellars drop, etc. The failure of execution on a running play is harder to spot. But it could still be the cause of a failed play, rather than the play call. Now, I do think Zorn very much needs to improve there, but if we can't block at the point of attack on a run play, that's just weak.
I think part of it is execution, I think the other part is having a shorter field. When the defense is backed up and all bunched up it makes it more difficult to find a seam in the zone blocking. Between the 20's is not the problem cause atleast one Safety is back to be the last man and help the CB's, then you have the WR's running atleast 2 or 3 CB's out of the play, and a TE taking out one LB so if you can man up on everyone else the RB should have room to run. But when down near the goal line less room to run off those other defenders which actually give them 3 to 4 extra defenders. So you either spread them out or achnowledge your best bet to score is going to be pass.
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:36 PM   #45
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Re: What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

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I think the answer keeps hitting us in the face. When the Giants played us they kept all their defensive lineman and LB lined up between the tackles prior to ball snap. When we played the Rams they did the same thing. Why? cause everyone knows 90% of our runs go between the tackles. All they have to do is load up the middle and stuff the lanes. When the Giants played against Dallas they only kept 3 D-lineman between the tackles. They usually had one DE at each tackle position and one DL floating between them lining up. I believe it was to contain the outside run, but due to this Dallas ran all day up the middle even walked in for a TD. Even Romo ran one up the middle.

Zorn either figures out a way to stretch the other teams defense out or we will see more games like these last two. Hell put 4 WR's in spread them out and run the ball. Even it it's a QB run.
We've actually been using too much of the Stretch play, going outside rather than smashing it between the tackles. Even with a tight alignment if the DL gets push while the OL is stepping laterally it blows up the Stretch, as long as the cutback lanes are all filled and the DB on the outside keeps contain (which inside the 10 is pretty easy to do). I believe the Giants alignment particularly had more to do with the abilities of the RBs on the Skins vs. Giants rather than the potential playcall. Portis & Betts are not guys who have the explosiveness to start in and bounce out. Barber (pre-quad injury) and Jones can.

I certainly agree with your point about spreading out the D inside the 10 and creating space. Putting the big WRs on the outside will help spread the CBs out. Zorn needs to use his formations & motions better to get the D where he wants them to set up the inside runs.
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