Campbell's numbers dont lie

44Deezel · 10-05-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.

I agree. That pass to Kelly is a basic, meat and potatoes play that even average Offenses utilize. I think 1 out of 10 times that ball gets picked and 9 out of 10 it's caught or it's an incompletion. I hope they keep going to it and even start to throw those balls behind the receiver on timing plays. Because we didn't play Kelly last year, he's essentially going through his rookie season. Keep throwing to him, and he'll get better.

If not, Campbell can pull a Brunell and throw to Moss to the tune of 1500 yards and sprinkle in some Cooley. Regardless, there's no excuse for being one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league. Other teams have shitty receivers and still manage to put points on the board. Our Offense is just bad across the board.

dgack · 10-05-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Regardless, there's no excuse for being one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league.

Agreed 100%!! Which is why I'm glad there is no objective quantifiable measurement available which ranks us "one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league".

scowan · 10-05-2009, 02:08 PM

Granted I am watching the broadcast at home and not at the game, so some of you actually at the game yesterday please correct me if I am wrong, but I watch JC go back to pass (again I can't see what is going on down the field on TV) and I see reasonable protection and JC holding the ball along time. To my earlier statement, is that JC's fault? or again are guys not getting open and separating themselves from the defenders?
I saw a lot of promise from Marko Mitchell in Preseason. Is that because he was going against inferior CBs or because he can separate from defenders? We know Cooley can find open space and Moss can just flat burn you, but Kelly and Thomas can not create their own separation for some reason. Am I wrong on that? Please someone respond who was at the game and could watch the secondary all day.

SC Skins Fan · 10-05-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scowan

Granted I am watching the broadcast at home and not at the game, so some of you actually at the game yesterday please correct me if I am wrong, but I watch JC go back to pass (again I can't see what is going on down the field on TV) and I see reasonable protection and JC holding the ball along time. To my earlier statement, is that JC's fault? or again are guys not getting open and separating themselves from the defenders?
I saw a lot of promise from Marko Mitchell in Preseason. Is that because he was going against inferior CBs or because he can separate from defenders? We know Cooley can find open space and Moss can just flat burn you, but Kelly and Thomas can not create their own separation for some reason. Am I wrong on that? Please someone respond who was at the game and could watch the secondary all day.

You are 100% correct. There is no timing to Campbell's game. That is actually nothing new, it has been the case all year. Good NFL QBs make throws into tight windows, on rhythm, and with anticipation. Guys who are not good NFL QBs do not get a clear picture at the snap, lack good timing and anticipation, hold the ball too long, and flush themselves by being unable to pull the trigger. They can make throws to open receivers, and certainly Campbell can do that, but really do not give receivers an opportunity to make plays.

You are also correct in saying that without the All-22 and access to the Redskins game plan it is difficult to properly break down the performance of an NFL quarterback. But we have a large enough sample size at this point to say that Campbell's deficiencies are not simply a product of great coverage/poor receiver play. He is a back-up NFL quarterback because he is unable to quickly identify coverages and make throws into tight windows. Guys who actually do break down coaches tape (i.e. Greg Cosell and Ron Jaworski - not to mention the Redskins own personnel department) have all seen the same thing that you and I are seeing just by watching the TV broadcast. You are not going to get great separation in the NFL from your receivers, at least not often, and what separates good quarterbacks from marginal guys is the ability to diagnosis coverages, anticipate routes, and throw into tight windows.

What is so frustrating about Campbell is that he has NFL tools, particularly with his arm, but he does not do any of the other things necessary to be a good NFL quarterback. I thought he did and thought the Redskins should take the opportunity to find out if he really did this season http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post557863 (Will Jason Campbell return?). I think we have now seen enough, against very bad NFL defenses, to answer the question.

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

dmvskinzfan08 · 10-05-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

You are 100% correct. There is no timing to Campbell's game. That is actually nothing new, it has been the case all year. Good NFL QBs make throws into tight windows, on rhythm, and with anticipation. Guys who are not good NFL QBs do not get a clear picture at the snap, lack good timing and anticipation, hold the ball too long, and flush themselves by being unable to pull the trigger. They can make throws to open receivers, and certainly Campbell can do that, but really do not give receivers an opportunity to make plays.

You are also correct in saying that without the All-22 and access to the Redskins game plan it is difficult to properly break down the performance of an NFL quarterback. But we have a large enough sample size at this point to say that Campbell's deficiencies are not simply a product of great coverage/poor receiver play. He is a back-up NFL quarterback because he is unable to quickly identify coverages and make throws into tight windows. Guys who actually do break down coaches tape (i.e. Greg Cosell and Ron Jaworski - not to mention the Redskins own personnel department) have all seen the same thing that you and I are seeing just by watching the TV broadcast. You are not going to get great separation in the NFL from your receivers, at least not often, and what separates good quarterbacks from marginal guys is the ability to diagnosis coverages, anticipate routes, and throw into tight windows.

What is so frustrating about Campbell is that he has NFL tools, particularly with his arm, but he does not do any of the other things necessary to be a good NFL quarterback. I thought he did and thought the Redskins should take the opportunity to find out if he really did this season http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post557863 (Will Jason Campbell return?). I think we have now seen enough, against very bad NFL defenses, to answer the question.

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

SC Skins Fan · 10-05-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

Almost wholly inaccurate. But you are correct in at least one point, I can see that you are very ready/willing to jump ship on Campbell when the going gets tough. http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post601374 (Week 4: Redskins vs. Buccaneers Gameday Thread)

Look, he put in a gutty performance in a tough situation. That shows great character and toughness, very admirable qualities. I do not question that. But that does not mean he does not have significant flaws as an NFL quarterback. I'm very willing to lay the blame on the Redskins for messing up his development, but where you lay the blame does not change the outcome.

dmvskinzfan08 · 10-05-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Almost wholly inaccurate. But you are correct in at least one point, I can see that you are very ready/willing to jump ship on Campbell when the going gets tough. http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post601374 (Week 4: Redskins vs. Buccaneers Gameday Thread)

Look, he put in a gutty performance in a tough situation. That shows great character and toughness, very admirable qualities. I do not question that. But that does not mean he does not have significant flaws as an NFL quarterback. I'm very willing to lay the blame on the Redskins for messing up his development, but where you lay the blame does not change the outcome.

Like I said. When he is doing bad I will say so. So that tells you I am not always on his side. So you are proving my point better than yours. At that point in the game it was the first half and he came back and made up for his mistakes which I said an earlier post. If he had continued playing that way in the second half and didn't bring us back. I would have still felt the way I did in the first half. So dig some more...

Sure you dont work for Snyder? Seems like most of your posts are about merchandising..lol.. The Warpath

DBUCHANON101 · 10-05-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

How are they different? To this point they both have the same td's but Garrard has only thrown 1 pick. Both are 2-2. IMO Neither really is a step better than the other so id say thats a fair comparison.

Ruhskins · 10-05-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

So what do you want us to do right now? Give me a solution for the team that would fix our offensive problems. If you take out Campbell and insert Collins, do you think things would be different? Just give me a reasonable solution, and not just announce that you have given up on the team.

Well, at least you are not this guy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.

dmvskinzfan08 · 10-05-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

How are they different? To this point they both have the same td's but Garrard has only thrown 1 pick. Both are 2-2. IMO Neither really is a step better than the other so id say thats a fair comparison.

So they are the same because they both are 2-2? You need more to go on than just they are both are 2-2. If you said that they both didn't throw many ints the first year they were starters I would say okay. Garrard started off being more of a runner than JC was. But if the criteria above is all you have to go by. So 5td-1int is the same as 5tds-5int? You lose your credibility too. The only other thing they have in common is...

:cool-smil

SmootSmack · 10-05-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.

Ultra Mega Epic Colossal Post Fail

I was a true fan until we lost and the pregame shows said "why are you a fan?"...

Slingin Sammy 33 · 10-05-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.

If that's all it took for you to jump ship, then you're not a "true fan". Don't let the door hit you in the hind-quarters on the way out.

Ruhskins · 10-05-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.

The Cowboys haven't lost to Detroit, why are you saying this? And I must say, you do give up easily.

dmvskinzfan08 · 10-05-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.

SC Skins Fan · 10-05-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

So they are the same because they both are 2-2? You need more to go on than just they are both are 2-2. If you said that they both didn't throw many ints the first year they were starters I would say okay. Garrard started off being more of a runner than JC was. But if the criteria above is all you have to go by. So 5td-1int is the same as 5tds-5int? You lose your credibility too. The only other thing they have in common is...

:cool-smil

http://www.thewarpath.net/nfl-draft-...tml#post595312 (Redskins No. 1 pick in 2010 NFL Draft)

10-05-2009, 02:08 PM	#603
scowan The Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: KY Age: 45 Posts: 1,492	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie Granted I am watching the broadcast at home and not at the game, so some of you actually at the game yesterday please correct me if I am wrong, but I watch JC go back to pass (again I can't see what is going on down the field on TV) and I see reasonable protection and JC holding the ball along time. To my earlier statement, is that JC's fault? or again are guys not getting open and separating themselves from the defenders? I saw a lot of promise from Marko Mitchell in Preseason. Is that because he was going against inferior CBs or because he can separate from defenders? We know Cooley can find open space and Moss can just flat burn you, but Kelly and Thomas can not create their own separation for some reason. Am I wrong on that? Please someone respond who was at the game and could watch the secondary all day.

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Campbell's numbers dont lie

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