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Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Old 10-05-2009, 04:30 PM   #616
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

You proved my point again. Not that you weren't a supporter of Campbell at one point in time. But by your means of comparison.

Doesn't mean I dont agree with you on some points but its just seems as though you are making JC the sole problem in this offense when it is a multitude of things.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:31 PM   #617
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

Well at least you're not wishing for the team to do badly.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:36 PM   #618
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
So what do you want us to do right now? Give me a solution for the team that would fix our offensive problems. If you take out Campbell and insert Collins, do you think things would be different? Just give me a reasonable solution, and not just announce that you have given up on the team.

Well, at least you are not this guy...
Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:38 PM   #619
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08 View Post
You proved my point again. Not that you weren't a supporter of Campbell at one point in time. But by your means of comparison.

Doesn't mean I dont agree with you on some points but its just seems as though you are making JC the sole problem in this offense when it is a multitude of things.
One the first point (bolded), I have no idea what you mean. On the second point, that is just you reading something into what I am saying that I have never said at all. The fact that Campbell is not the "answer" at quarterback and lacks the skills to be a very good/elite player at the position does not mean that he is the only problem with the offense. I have never said he was the sole problem or replacing him would represent a cure-all. I am, however, trying to be realistic in my evaluation of him as an NFL passer. I find him lacking in the essential characteristics (i.e. ability to quickly process information, play with timing/anticipation) that are necessary for consistent success at the position.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:43 PM   #620
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.
I think in a situation like this I wish we had a project like Brennan waiting in the wings, throw him to the fire and see what he can do. I would hope that if Collins were to play, that our defense is performing better, and that our running game is up to speed.

As I said, if Campbell has a terrible game from beginning to the end, then he should be benched. Right now, I just want Ws in the next two games, ideally, I want a good offensive showing throughout the game, not just in one half or quarter.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:44 PM   #621
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan View Post
But that is just you reading something into what I am saying that I have never said at all. The fact that Campbell is not the "answer" at quarterback and lacks the skills to be a very good/elite player at the position does not mean that he is the only problem with the offense. I have never said he was the sole problem or replacing him would represent a cure-all. I am, however, trying to be realistic in my evaluation of him as an NFL passer. I find him lacking in the essential characteristics (i.e. ability to quickly process information, play with timing/anticipation) that are necessary for consistent success at the position.
You compared him to Garrard and in the thread you posted you also compared him to Leftwich. All totally different QBs. Garrard when he became a starter was more of a running QB. Leftwich has two cement blocks for feet. Campbell is somewhere in between. But a better passer than both in this point in his career IMO. Garrard is a decent passer. But he was more of a running threat when he first started. JC can run. But rarely does.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:47 PM   #622
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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I think in a situation like this I wish we had a project like Brennan waiting in the wings, throw him to the fire and see what he can do. I would hope that if Collins were to play, that our defense is performing better, and that our running game is up to speed.

As I said, if Campbell has a terrible game from beginning to the end, then he should be benched. Right now, I just want Ws in the next two games, ideally, I want a good offensive showing throughout the game, not just in one half or quarter.
I totally agree. The gentleman posted a link where I was ready to bench Campbell in the first half of the Bucs game. Which I was. SO that shows that I am not going to support JC no matter how he plays. That's all I care about is wins also. Only point I made was people wanted JC to take more risks and he did and it ended up in INTs. But he didn't hodl his head down. he came back at half time and brought us back for the win and seemingly redeemed himself.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:53 PM   #623
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

The problem that I have with your analysis, SC, and I suspect many others are in the same boat here, is that you seem to think that Jason is an average or slightly above average QB, and that we merely need to 'address this in the offseason' as if this will resolve many of the team's issues.

And you're not the only one, plenty of people here are clamoring for Zorn and Campbell to be tossed overboard so we can begin our oh-so-beloved quest for the One True Player to deliver us from the arms of mediocrity. Oh, how we love the offseason courtships and dreams of free-spending our way to a championship.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Jason has "lost" the team? Don't you think every one of those guys is pulling for him and wants to see him succeed? After the way Snyder publicly humiliated the guy -- do you honestly think that it's going to be as simple as just replacing one cog in a machine with another, with no ramifications to the rest of the team? I sure don't. The quotes I read the clips I see of interviews tell me that these guys are behind Jason Campbell. All of them may not be with Zorn right now, but I don't see a lot of people preparing to throw JC under the bus. And they sure as hell aren't going to get excited about learning the quirks and habits and proficiencies and deficiencies of a new QB.

So ejecting Campbell and starting over WILL have consequences. We will regress. AGAIN. No new QB coming in here, short of an established veteran winner, is going to command the huddle and assert leadership over the team in their first season, either. You see Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford walking in here and saying "this is my team"? I don't think so.

No, I think what many of us are saying is that we should be capable of fielding a team that does not REQUIRE a quarterback to be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to compete at elite levels. Mark Rypien put up some good numbers for a few years, but was he an elite QB or a better-than-average QB who was a good fit in the system?

Kyle Orton is 4-0 this season. Is he elite? Or is he just being asked to be a competent QB most of the game and occasionally make some big plays?

Constantly chasing the holy grail QB is a waste of time. I don't have time to run the numbers, but I'm curious how often you really see a young highly touted QB prospect come in and turn around a team that is mired in mediocrity.

We need to fix a lot of other crap about this organization before we even think about looking for that miracle working QB.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:58 PM   #624
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08 View Post
You compared him to Garrard and in the thread you posted you also compared him to Leftwich. All totally different QBs. Garrard when he became a starter was more of a running QB. Leftwich has two cement blocks for feet. Campbell is somewhere in between. But a better passer than both in this point in his career IMO. Garrard is a decent passer. But he was more of a running threat when he first started. JC can run. But rarely does.
In the thread referenced I actually did not compare him to Leftwich. I was responding to a comment about Leftwich and said that he is someone else who actually had (to that point) put up good statistical numbers but was not a very good quarterback and lacked a refined sense of timing and anticipation. If you read what I actually wrote it is quite clear and does not differ in tone from your characterization above.

Also, I am not sure how you can characterize Garrard as a "runner" or say that his "running" makes a comparison between he and Campbell inaccurate. In 2008 Garrard had the most rushing yards he has ever had as a professional (322). Campbell had 258. Garrard scrambles around because he does not get a clear picture at the snap or play with great timing. That is exactly the same reason that Campbell was moving so much in the pocket yesterday.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:59 PM   #625
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.
I will be interested to read your analysis. "Regression" was also a term that came to my mind after watching the last two weeks.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:00 PM   #626
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

so we all agreee JC is an average to decent qb!!!

go skins!!
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:01 PM   #627
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.
Cult you sound very much like what we refer to as a fair weather fan. You're a fan as long as the sun's shinning, then when it rains you're nowhere to be found. But you know what?......For whatever reason there are a lot of FW fans just like yourself around. Hard to imagine you were ever a TRUE FAN.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:03 PM   #628
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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I think in a situation like this I wish we had a project like Brennan waiting in the wings, throw him to the fire and see what he can do. I would hope that if Collins were to play, that our defense is performing better, and that our running game is up to speed.
We do, his name is Andre Woodson. Although his negatives seem real similar to JC's.

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Andre' Woodson

Quote:
As I said, if Campbell has a terrible game from beginning to the end, then he should be benched. Right now, I just want Ws in the next two games, ideally, I want a good offensive showing throughout the game, not just in one half or quarter.
I'm with you, we need wins, but JC has to improve ASAP. Over the last couple of games he could've single-handedly accounted for 8 turnovers.

If JC is benched and we're still in the hunt for the playoffs, Collins should be able to do enough to give us a chance to win each week if the D is called like it was on Sunday.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:04 PM   #629
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by dgack View Post
The problem that I have with your analysis, SC, and I suspect many others are in the same boat here, is that you seem to think that Jason is an average or slightly above average QB, and that we merely need to 'address this in the offseason' as if this will resolve many of the team's issues.

And you're not the only one, plenty of people here are clamoring for Zorn and Campbell to be tossed overboard so we can begin our oh-so-beloved quest for the One True Player to deliver us from the arms of mediocrity. Oh, how we love the offseason courtships and dreams of free-spending our way to a championship.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Jason has "lost" the team? Don't you think every one of those guys is pulling for him and wants to see him succeed? After the way Snyder publicly humiliated the guy -- do you honestly think that it's going to be as simple as just replacing one cog in a machine with another, with no ramifications to the rest of the team? I sure don't. The quotes I read the clips I see of interviews tell me that these guys are behind Jason Campbell. All of them may not be with Zorn right now, but I don't see a lot of people preparing to throw JC under the bus. And they sure as hell aren't going to get excited about learning the quirks and habits and proficiencies and deficiencies of a new QB.

So ejecting Campbell and starting over WILL have consequences. We will regress. AGAIN. No new QB coming in here, short of an established veteran winner, is going to command the huddle and assert leadership over the team in their first season, either. You see Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford walking in here and saying "this is my team"? I don't think so.

No, I think what many of us are saying is that we should be capable of fielding a team that does not REQUIRE a quarterback to be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to compete at elite levels. Mark Rypien put up some good numbers for a few years, but was he an elite QB or a better-than-average QB who was a good fit in the system?

Kyle Orton is 4-0 this season. Is he elite? Or is he just being asked to be a competent QB most of the game and occasionally make some big plays?

Constantly chasing the holy grail QB is a waste of time. I don't have time to run the numbers, but I'm curious how often you really see a young highly touted QB prospect come in and turn around a team that is mired in mediocrity.

We need to fix a lot of other crap about this organization before we even think about looking for that miracle working QB.
Good point. But I will add to it. Because i know some will ignore the 3 words I bolded.

They will say Flacco, Matt Ryan or even pull Sanchez out their ---.

With all of these QBs they have these two important things that are a rookie QBs dream. A good running game and also a very stout if not great defense.

-Ryan has Turner and alot of other skilled players.
-Flacco has 3 formidable RBs and a great defense
-Sanchez has a good defense that came from the bmore defense and two good RBs on who is a a Sproles type player who excels running and catching the ball.

We dont have that. Our defense is becoming better but is not on the level of bmore or the jets and our only running back threat is nicked up and our o-line is not playing very well. Espeically when it comes to the run game.

Flacco might turn out to be the best of three. On NFL Network they were actually comparing Ryan to Brady when they played the other game. I was like WTF?

I think Ryan will regress this year. We all saw what happened when Sanchez had to put a team on his back against the Saints.

So there is no holy grail like my man said above. So we need to just hope JC manages the game and dont expect him to become Joe Montana overnight.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:14 PM   #630
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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So there is no holy grail like my man said above. So we need to jsut hope JC manages the game and dont expect him to become Joe Montana overnight.
Agreed there is no "holy grail" QB out there. However JC's play over the last two games (in snaps that the opposing D wasn't playing basically a prevent) isn't acceptable of a "game manager" or average QB. As I mentioned before he single-handedly could've been the cause of 8 turnovers in 2 games. As it is he caused 5.
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