Campbell's numbers dont lie

skinsfan69 · 09-28-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

FIRST, we need to play the young guys and SEE what we have?

Yeah I'm kind of wondering why Mitchell hasn't seen the field yet.

roth74va · 09-28-2009, 09:05 PM

Great thread, Im glad that Im not the only one that feels this way. Of course playing QB, you are the first one that people "dog" when you lose, and the first one for "kudos" when you win. Some of the stats are padded because they came at trash time, but there have been alot of missed opportunities that could have helped the stats as well that havent been his fault. Im surprised that he is doing so well considering the horrendous playcalling, and the defenses inability to get off the field. The line is giving more time than last year, but still needs to improve so we dont miss those potential big plays.

If Campbell does get away, we will end up regretting it in the long run. The guy has steadily improved, and handled the chaos that is the Redskins like a true professional. I really feel like he could do much better with a better coach and more innovative playcalling.

GTripp0012 · 09-28-2009, 09:06 PM

When I was looking up Campbell's fourth quarter splits for research prompted by my comments earlier of this thread, I found out something interesting:

According to NFL.com, Jason Campbell did not make a single pass in the fourth quarter with the score anything greater than a 7 point game.

Of course, I don't know how NFL.com was counting the Giants, Ravens, and Steelers games, when that was actually the case, but it's been a little bit different for the Redskins to get down by more than 7 points twice in the first three weeks.

jsarno · 09-28-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Funny how you'll go to the numbers until they don't support your argument. Then they are worthless.

Matty's using fact-based assertions and you aren't. You can't tell him he's wrong.

How are my comments not fact based? Am I mistaken at the fact that he disappears when we need him most? That he is no where to be found in the redzone? That he leads the league with 5 fumbles? Those are all facts sir. Saying that Campbell is a bright spot is NOT fact based. It's opinion based.

ps- when numbers actually prove a point, then they are good and worthy, when they are used to skew reality, they are not worthy. We both know numbers show things, but they don't show everything. Again...see Mark Brunell.

jsarno · 09-28-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Rebuilding would have been a much more sensible option if we hadn't thrown a few billion dollars at Hall and Haynesworth. Now, since you are paying that money no matter what, I don't know how you rebuild at the same time.

If there's one thing that has frustrated me about the last five years of the Redskins, it's the complete dismissal of needing a 'Plan B' because of the undying confidence that 'Plan A' will work.

You are definitely right about that.

GMScud · 09-28-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

[/b]

I think changes need to be made if the offense keeps up the lack of scoring. If that means putting in Collins then so be it. He gets the ball out quicker so maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea.

People that think Collins would do a better job than Campbell right now are smoking something. For starters, Collins' mobility resembles that of an 80 year old woman, and our O-line leaks like an old faucet. Against a half decent pass rush, Collins may leave the field in an ambulance.

jsarno · 09-28-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMScud

People that think Collins would do a better job than Campbell right now are smoking something. For starters, Collins' mobility resembles that of an 80 year old woman, and our O-line leaks like an old faucet. Against a half decent pass rush, Collins may leave the field in an ambulance.

Agree 100%...so bring on Colt!

BaltimoreSkins · 09-28-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Brees has Shockey (not really a big play guy) and Colston and that's about it. I like Campbell to an extent but he doesn't feel comfortable putting the ball up to the receiver to catch. Maybe that's his style, maybe that's Zorn in his ear, or maybe he's used to WR's getting 10 yards open in college and being able to hit them late in the play.. I really don't know.

Don't forget Reggie Bush, he has to be accounted for at all times, even though he hasn't had an overabundance of big plays.

GTripp0012 · 09-28-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

How are my comments not fact based? Am I mistaken at the fact that he disappears when we need him most? That he is no where to be found in the redzone? That he leads the league with 5 fumbles? Those are all facts sir. Saying that Campbell is a bright spot is NOT fact based. It's opinion based.

ps- when numbers actually prove a point, then they are good and worthy, when they are used to skew reality, they are not worthy. We both know numbers show things, but they don't show everything. Again...see Mark Brunell.

Yes, you are mistaken. And not in spite of your refusal to go to the passing numbers.

The fumbles are a major issue. A MAJOR issue. And I'll credit you for going to that (a statistic) to defend your case. But without Campbell's passing efficiency, this team would have NO wins, and a good half of football from the defense against St. Louis away from being the worst team in football.

Campbell is more or less the difference between us and the Browns right now. And remember that I'm a pretty big Quinn fan.

roth74va · 09-28-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

[/B]

I think changes need to be made if the offense keeps up the lack of scoring. If that means putting in Collins then so be it. He gets the ball out quicker so maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Thats an idiotic idea, is this really Jim Zorn? One of the only guys on the team, and a captain at that, having a decent season, and you wanna scrap him for a guy that will retire at seasons end. Thats not exactly the way to "rebuild" now is it? Campbell is doing a good job for the cards he has been dealt. Lets get a real offensive coordinator and see what Campbell can do with some real playcalls.

GTripp0012 · 09-28-2009, 09:13 PM

Collins would get the ball out quickly, but those 8-10 yard passes to Cooley that are a staple of our offense become 4-5 yard passes. And then we'd just be a top to bottom bad team.

Beemnseven · 09-28-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Alright, but even blowing the whole thing up never implies getting rid of 53 players in a single offseason.

So what do you rebuild first? A lot of teams start with the passing offense, but that's a weird situation for us because few teams that lose as consistently as we do have been able to have a source of passing offense each of the last five years (well, 2007 is debatable). So, do we start by tearing up the defense? The offensive line? The running game?

If we choose to rebuild, which seems like a reasonable option, I'm not even sure where we would begin. We don't have a lot of money tied up in our passing game, but that's been our only bright spot this year. And our receivers are, if nothing else, young.

I think you have to start up front. Problem is we never have enough draft picks to really begin an infusion of youth. I've always believed that a great offensive line will allow you to get RBs on the cheap. Timmy Smith, Terrell Davis, and Stephen Davis come to mind. Get some good blockers up front, now your QB has time and bargain running backs can find running lanes.

If you have to start somewhere, start at the O-line.

hooskins · 09-28-2009, 09:18 PM

Blaming Campbell is such an easy cop out. The problem is much more complex. Campbell does well, but man our receivers and Zorn arent really helping him IMO.

Also we have said it quite a bit, but it starts top-down. We all knew the O was gonna be interesting this year based on our draft and pro-scouts.

GTripp0012 · 09-28-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think you have to start up front. Problem is we never have enough draft picks to really begin an infusion of youth. I've always believed that a great offensive line will allow you to get RBs on the cheap. Timmy Smith, Terrell Davis, and Stephen Davis come to mind. Get some good blockers up front, now your QB has time and bargain running backs can find running lanes.

If you have to start somewhere, start at the O-line.

Alright. But Samuels and Dockery have been more than serviceable in their careers here, and I don't know what you'd call the right side of the line except a rebuilding project. So outside of using a high draft pick on the OL (whi ch you and I both favor), exactly who should go to make room for these players? Samuels is old, but does that mean we should part ways while he is still effective?

In a lot of ways, this is the first year of our OL rebuilding project. Randy Thomas is probably done as a Redskin, Casey Rabach is likely in his final season here, and we're trying to see if we have anything in Heyer or Rinehart. We could use a big, mean, proven college body, but I kind think we're already rebuilding on the OL.

Lady Brave · 09-28-2009, 09:21 PM

I truly applaud people who still manage to defend Campbell. I lost faith after last season and most likely won't regain it until he can maintain some consistency. People can argue all day long that Campbell is a good QB, but at the end of the day, he hasn't been good enough.

09-28-2009, 09:05 PM	#77
roth74va Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 336	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie Great thread, Im glad that Im not the only one that feels this way. Of course playing QB, you are the first one that people "dog" when you lose, and the first one for "kudos" when you win. Some of the stats are padded because they came at trash time, but there have been alot of missed opportunities that could have helped the stats as well that havent been his fault. Im surprised that he is doing so well considering the horrendous playcalling, and the defenses inability to get off the field. The line is giving more time than last year, but still needs to improve so we dont miss those potential big plays. If Campbell does get away, we will end up regretting it in the long run. The guy has steadily improved, and handled the chaos that is the Redskins like a true professional. I really feel like he could do much better with a better coach and more innovative playcalling. __________________ _________________________ 6 win talent + 2 win coaching = 4-12 season.

09-28-2009, 09:06 PM	#78
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 29 Posts: 15,994	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie When I was looking up Campbell's fourth quarter splits for research prompted by my comments earlier of this thread, I found out something interesting: According to NFL.com, Jason Campbell did not make a single pass in the fourth quarter with the score anything greater than a 7 point game. Of course, I don't know how NFL.com was counting the Giants, Ravens, and Steelers games, when that was actually the case, but it's been a little bit different for the Redskins to get down by more than 7 points twice in the first three weeks. __________________ according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

09-28-2009, 09:13 PM	#86
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 29 Posts: 15,994	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie Collins would get the ball out quickly, but those 8-10 yard passes to Cooley that are a staple of our offense become 4-5 yard passes. And then we'd just be a top to bottom bad team. __________________ according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

09-28-2009, 09:18 PM	#88
hooskins Most Interesting Man in the World Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chantilly, VA Age: 30 Posts: 8,606	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie Blaming Campbell is such an easy cop out. The problem is much more complex. Campbell does well, but man our receivers and Zorn arent really helping him IMO. Also we have said it quite a bit, but it starts top-down. We all knew the O was gonna be interesting this year based on our draft and pro-scouts. __________________ Vacancy

09-28-2009, 09:21 PM	#90
Lady Brave The Starter Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Trinity, NC Age: 45 Posts: 1,444	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie I truly applaud people who still manage to defend Campbell. I lost faith after last season and most likely won't regain it until he can maintain some consistency. People can argue all day long that Campbell is a good QB, but at the end of the day, he hasn't been good enough.

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Campbell's numbers dont lie

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