Campbell's numbers dont lie

A10sROCK · 10-30-2009, 12:21 AM

The most important statistic of a QB is the Win/loss ratio. JC is just not a winner, even when he has impeccable protection. We do have a bad OL, but JC doesn't have the leadership skills and gets rattled easy.

JC is just not a NFL caliber QB. I can't hit the long passes. Many of his best passes were YAC made by the WR/TE/RB. He often misses wide open WR by not seeing them, throwing over, under, behind, etc. He has a poor feel for the rush - either stepping into the rush, rushing his pass when he has time or holding the ball too long. All these "feel" mistakes can be blamed on the poor OL, but other QB in the NFL make money out of it. JC can not.

Much of the stats that are sighted are the "junk yards" (like the last game) where the teams are giving him yardage at the end of the game we are going to lose.

I predict that JC will never start again in the NFL. He's quickly playing himself out of the NFL, except as a perennial #2 or #3 QB.

SkinFanatic · 10-30-2009, 08:29 AM

JC has the skills, but not the temperament. His stats make him look better than he is because he doesn't (or isnt allowed to) take chances. But mainly, he isn't strong-willed enough. I'll bet he has no presence in the huddle. I've never seen any emotion out of the guy on the field or otherwise. And have you seen his press-conferences.....so mild mannered and doesn't even look the camera in the eye.

30gut · 10-30-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Although O-line is a glaring need. How much time do other QB's get in order to get the ball off? I'll agree with you guys that the O-line needs to be upgraded and needs to learn how to block as a team, otherwise the run game will be stifled.

Well if you realize that the OL isn't up to par in the running game or the passing game what makes you think the still give JC as much time as other OLs?

Quote:

I did see some jail breaks in the Eagles game, but other then that JC gets around 3-7 seconds to get rid of the ball on his pass plays. I think most QB's get 3-7 seconds to get the ball off.

I think you need to research how much time a QB gets in the pocket because you are way off base.
If you don't want to look it up, watch a game with stop watch that goes to the hundredths.

You'll find the following:
3 seconds of pass pro would be considered average
1.5-1.7 seconds on a 3 step drop the ball should be coming out (a QB should not get hit on a 3 step drop)
4-5 seconds behind a good OL on 5-7 step drop
7 seconds of protection almost never happens

Mattyk · 10-30-2009, 09:34 AM

Yeah 7 seconds is ridiculous...

Typically if a QB gets a full 3 seconds, that's good protection.

30gut · 10-30-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

The most important statistic of a QB is the Win/loss ratio. JC is just not a winner, even when he has impeccable protection. We do have a bad OL, but JC doesn't have the leadership skills and gets rattled easy.

Football is a team sport.
You cannot judge a QB by their win/loss record alone.
Look at the W/L records of Rodgers in Green Bay or Drew Brees w/ the Saints(prior to this year).

Even when he has impeccable protection?
When has he even had good protection? Save for a handful of times last game?

Quote:

JC is just not a NFL caliber QB. I can't hit the long passes. Many of his best passes were YAC made by the WR/TE/RB. He often misses wide open WR by not seeing them, throwing over, under, behind, etc. He has a poor feel for the rush - either stepping into the rush, rushing his pass when he has time or holding the ball too long. All these "feel" mistakes can be blamed on the poor OL, but other QB in the NFL make money out of it. JC can not.

The question you need to ask yourself is does JC makes these mistakes more then other QBs?
And if JC was making all these mistakes more often the other QBs playing behind a worse OL, without a running game, with a average at best receiving corps, and inconsistent to below average playcalling and coaching then how is it that he's the 18th rated QB in the league?

Quote:

Much of the stats that are sighted are the "junk yards" (like the last game) where the teams are giving him yardage at the end of the game we are going to lose.

Junk yardage?
The TD to Devin Thomas was junk yardage?
On the drive that lead to Fred Davis TD the Eagles weren't playing prevent they were still blitzing.

Chico23231 · 10-30-2009, 09:59 AM

30gut we will just have to disagree. Like I stated, I wanted JC to be that franchise type but to me he just doenst have it. From a mental and leadership perspective of the position he gets very low marks. Good Oline or not. Physical standpoint, he has all the tools. Yeah coaching has some to do with it, maybe he has had too many changes but that is water under the bridge. Another year, another coach, another system is not going to benefit JC here, its time to move on. And like I said, management does not want him here, he has had his chance, good luck to him.

30gut · 10-30-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinFanatic

JC has the skills, but not the temperament. His stats make him look better than he is

I'd say JC has the skills.
His stats make him look good because he has suspect OL, no running, average receiving corps, and up until now inconsistent to lousy playcalling and is still the 18th rated QB in the NFL.

All the Skins have to do is win a couple games and i'm sure a bunch of you guys will change your tune.

HTTR!

30gut · 10-30-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

30gut we will just have to disagree. Like I stated, I wanted JC to be that franchise type but to me he just doenst have it. From a mental and leadership perspective of the position he gets very low marks. Good Oline or not. Physical standpoint, he has all the tools. Yeah coaching has some to do with it, maybe he has had too many changes but that is water under the bridge. Another year, another coach, another system is not going to benefit JC here, its time to move on. And like I said, management does not want him here, he has had his chance, good luck to him.

We can agree to disagree.
But when people start in with the bashing rhetoric its hard for me to remain silent in the face of spurios claims. http://www.thewarpath.net/618206-post922.html (Campbell's numbers dont lie)
Hey, if you don't think JC can be any better then the 18th QB in the league given the circumstances, cool.
But no need to bash the dude.

I just don't understand how anyone can judge JC negatively this season.
There aren't many QBs in the league that would play better in this situation.
And if JC is gone next year who are we gonna find thats actually better?
Finding different is easy finding better is another story.

Monkeydad · 10-30-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Don't drink coffee

Sorry to get you all riled up during your quest. Campbell long passes: Week 3=57 looked like number of long passes to me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Don't worry about it, I didn't get it at first either.

Someone said JC is doing the "Brunell dink-and dunk" and claimed he doesn't go downfield, so I posted his long completions for each week. Standard stat, I thought!

Mattyk · 10-30-2009, 10:59 AM

Sorry Buster you were a bit vague in your explanation of "Campbell long passes".

Next time make a play, ok?

warriorzpath · 10-30-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30gut

We can agree to disagree.
But when people start in with the bashing rhetoric its hard for me to remain silent in the face of spurios claims. http://www.thewarpath.net/618206-post922.html (Campbell's numbers dont lie)
Hey, if you don't think JC can be any better then the 18th QB in the league given the circumstances, cool.
But no need to bash the dude.

I just don't understand how anyone can judge JC negatively this season.
There aren't many QBs in the league that would play better in this situation.
And if JC is gone next year who are we gonna find thats actually better?
Finding different is easy finding better is another story.

Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play. Okay, take the bad plays that YOU think were definitely the fault of offensive linemen and wide receivers and don't consider these in evaluating Campbell's play. Now look at the rest of the plays and then tell me how he did. If you can't find these mistakes from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks).

I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first, because it is the most important (position) to the offense. To me, you really have to look at the most important positions first to fix things because of the impact they have to their unit and thus their team. Usually, I think one of the last positions that you would consider important on the list is probably a blocker on kickoff returns.

SC Skins Fan · 10-30-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play. Okay, take the bad plays that YOU think were definitely the fault of offensive linemen and wide receivers and don't consider these in evaluating Campbell's play. Now look at the rest of the plays and then tell me how he did. If you can't find these mistakes from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks).

I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first, because it is the most important (position) to the offense. To me, you really have to look at the most important positions first to fix things because of the impact they have to their unit and thus their team. Usually, I think one of the last positions that you would consider important on the list is probably a blocker on kickoff returns.

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

warriorzpath · 10-30-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

Yeah, it appears that the campbell defenders won't even listen to some of the most respected experts linked to the nfl. Even when these experts make it a point to start off their analysis of the redskins losing with a focus on campbell's play.

My opinion doesn't have a lot of weight and rightfully so, but you have to really listen when someone like Steve Young (who I think has earned his respect) starts his analysis by saying Campbell played a bad game and continues it by putting focus on some of his mistakes.

The analysis of these experts also should be used to judge Campbell's play more than the stats. And I don't think there's any analysis that has expressed that Campbell has been playing "very well" up to this point.

SolidSnake84 · 10-30-2009, 02:47 PM

I want to go out on a limb here and say that Campbell isn't a flawed QB, it's just that i think he lacks the mental side of the game. Campbell's college coach put it the best when he said earlier this year that the hardest battle they fought in Auburn was getting him to believe in himself. He thinks Jason plays scared.

I see all of these things. The NFL is full of QBs who aren't superstars individually, but can do good things with the team. I think of Jeff Garcia, who didnt' have a strong arm, nor was he big physically, but he could always find a way to win and keep a drive alive...

Campbell now reminds me of Brunell in 2006. He isn't quite stinking it up, but he's not doing anything to try and win the game either....

Redskin Warrior · 10-30-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

I'm a JC believer and I agree with what you said but not everyone the believes in him or supports him is in denial that he needs to work on things. JC is timid to throw into tight windows that is correct I agree 100% and some of that is that he doesn't trust his receivers. I've watched JC from his college days until now I'm a huge SEC fan period and I know what the fellow can do. All I said is part of his problem is previous coaching hammering him with "Don't Lose The Game" mentality has hurt him now he doesn't take risk as much. I just found out that we don't have audibles in our offense so if the defense in a certain coverage he can't audibles into other plays. Peyton is so successful because he actually changes plays at the line to move down field. If the blitz is coming but a playaction pass is called truth be told he is probably going to take that sack or call a timeout. So he's limited in certain areas more than other QB's that's not his fault, but he is not playing well at all and has happy feet but it comes from him not trusting his line and receivers.

10-30-2009, 12:21 AM	#931
A10sROCK Impact Rookie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 504	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie The most important statistic of a QB is the Win/loss ratio. JC is just not a winner, even when he has impeccable protection. We do have a bad OL, but JC doesn't have the leadership skills and gets rattled easy. JC is just not a NFL caliber QB. I can't hit the long passes. Many of his best passes were YAC made by the WR/TE/RB. He often misses wide open WR by not seeing them, throwing over, under, behind, etc. He has a poor feel for the rush - either stepping into the rush, rushing his pass when he has time or holding the ball too long. All these "feel" mistakes can be blamed on the poor OL, but other QB in the NFL make money out of it. JC can not. Much of the stats that are sighted are the "junk yards" (like the last game) where the teams are giving him yardage at the end of the game we are going to lose. I predict that JC will never start again in the NFL. He's quickly playing himself out of the NFL, except as a perennial #2 or #3 QB. __________________ 'Gut and Power'

10-30-2009, 08:29 AM	#932
SkinFanatic Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Stafford, VA Age: 55 Posts: 49	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie JC has the skills, but not the temperament. His stats make him look better than he is because he doesn't (or isnt allowed to) take chances. But mainly, he isn't strong-willed enough. I'll bet he has no presence in the huddle. I've never seen any emotion out of the guy on the field or otherwise. And have you seen his press-conferences.....so mild mannered and doesn't even look the camera in the eye. __________________ GM First

10-30-2009, 09:34 AM	#934
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 42 Posts: 84,574	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie Yeah 7 seconds is ridiculous... Typically if a QB gets a full 3 seconds, that's good protection. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

10-30-2009, 09:59 AM	#936
Chico23231 Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 38 Posts: 13,066	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie 30gut we will just have to disagree. Like I stated, I wanted JC to be that franchise type but to me he just doenst have it. From a mental and leadership perspective of the position he gets very low marks. Good Oline or not. Physical standpoint, he has all the tools. Yeah coaching has some to do with it, maybe he has had too many changes but that is water under the bridge. Another year, another coach, another system is not going to benefit JC here, its time to move on. And like I said, management does not want him here, he has had his chance, good luck to him.

10-30-2009, 10:59 AM	#940
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 42 Posts: 84,574	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie Sorry Buster you were a bit vague in your explanation of "Campbell long passes". Next time make a play, ok? __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

10-30-2009, 02:47 PM	#944
SolidSnake84 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Stephens City, VA Posts: 1,929	Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie I want to go out on a limb here and say that Campbell isn't a flawed QB, it's just that i think he lacks the mental side of the game. Campbell's college coach put it the best when he said earlier this year that the hardest battle they fought in Auburn was getting him to believe in himself. He thinks Jason plays scared. I see all of these things. The NFL is full of QBs who aren't superstars individually, but can do good things with the team. I think of Jeff Garcia, who didnt' have a strong arm, nor was he big physically, but he could always find a way to win and keep a drive alive... Campbell now reminds me of Brunell in 2006. He isn't quite stinking it up, but he's not doing anything to try and win the game either.... __________________ Time to nut up or shut up

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Campbell's numbers dont lie

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