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Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Old 12-07-2009, 01:32 PM   #1261
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
I have also been impress with JC's play the past couple of weeks. I wonder if his improvement is because does not have alot of preasure on him with us out of the playoffs and is just going out and playing?
Maybe. He's also getting more help from his receivers. That's not to take anything away from JC, though. He's been quite impressive. He seems to have a better pocket presence.
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:32 PM   #1262
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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I have also been impress with JC's play the past couple of weeks. I wonder if his improvement is because does not have alot of preasure on him with us out of the playoffs and is just going out and playing?
No pressure about playoffs is correct, but he's in a contract year and playing for his career's next step. With all of the detractors he's had, not only on here but everywhere I see...he has PLENTY of pressure on his shoulders. Speaking of pressure, he's been hit a LOT lately with the holes in the offensive line. They've played somewhat better recently but he's still taking some huge shots by defenders.

I believe I'm right about letting a QB develop before giving up on them. Look at Vince Young, he was FAR worse than JC ever was and now could be their future as they had hoped it would be...there are always bumps in the road for a QB to become a franchise QB, even for Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, who was completely replaced when with San Diego. I bet they really regret that move. Rivers is great, but Brees is better.

I am just glad that we didn't get Sanchez or even Cutler and have to start this whole process and learning curve all over again, waiting another 3 years or so for solid production from a young QB. Hopefully he's earned his place in the team's immediate, if not long-term future.
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:36 PM   #1263
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Maybe. He's also getting more help from his receivers. That's not to take anything away from JC, though. He's been quite impressive. He seems to have a better pocket presence.
He definitely seem to have better pocket presence, although this is also helped by the offense linemen.. If I remember right, Campbell has been sacked only two times in last three games.. So is it really ironically that Campbell, in general, has been playing better in last three games, as well?
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:39 PM   #1264
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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No pressure about playoffs is correct, but he's in a contract year and playing for his career's next step. With all of the detractors he's had, not only on here but everywhere I see...he has PLENTY of pressure on his shoulders. Speaking of pressure, he's been hit a LOT lately with the holes in the offensive line. They've played somewhat better recently but he's still taking some huge shots by defenders.

I believe I'm right about letting a QB develop before giving up on them. Look at Vince Young, he was FAR worse than JC ever was and now could be their future as they had hoped it would be...there are always bumps in the road for a QB to become a franchise QB, even for Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, who was completely replaced when with San Diego. I bet they really regret that move. Rivers is great, but Brees is better.

I am just glad that we didn't get Sanchez or even Cutler and have to start this whole process and learning curve all over again, waiting another 3 years or so for solid production from a young QB. Hopefully he's earned his place in the team's immediate, if not long-term future.
Which is why it's kind of odd to point out Sanchez' struggles in his rookie season in my opinion. I mean I know what you're trying to do, but still
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:55 PM   #1265
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

Living in San Diego now but still follow the Redskins even out here (once a Skins fan, always a Skins fan).

Wow, what a mess of a season! Offense just never seems in synch... can't believe they didn't add any offense impact players in the offseason.

On Campbell -- he may be successful on another team, but for a variety of factors it'll never happen with the Redskins. Too many negative intangibles, and not a lot of passion for the game. Time for both sides to move on.

It seems every team has a terrible season in the waiting, but if the Skins drafted better - or even had a GM - they wouldn't be in the mess they're in. Can't they find a GM out here somewhere?
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:06 PM   #1266
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by GridIron26 View Post
He definitely seem to have better pocket presence, although this is also helped by the offense linemen.. If I remember right, Campbell has been sacked only two times in last three games.. So is it really ironically that Campbell, in general, has been playing better in last three games, as well?
He wasn't sacked very much the first 4 games either. I take issue with people, like Theismann, who claim Campbell has been running for his life since game 1 and couldn't dare be expected to perform at a high level.

Until Samuels went down, Campbell had plenty of time to throw. Especially against pathetic Defenses like the Chiefs, Lions and at the time, the Panthers.

I admit, he has looked great (not just good). But I would credit Sherm and Campbell for the improved play. The very first game Sherm was calling games, we saw JC in shotgun and 3-4 wide receiver formations from within the 10 yard line. And against the Saints, the Skins had one drive where they didn't run the ball once. They went 78 yards in 7 plays, ALL PASSES. There was an immediate and noticeable difference when Sherm took over.

That said, I can only conclude that Zorn was doing a poor job of play calling and maximizing his players potential. Not playing the rooks last year was also stupid. They can obviously play. Once they were out of the playoff hunt last year, Zorn should have given the young guys a heavy dose of playing time.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:22 PM   #1267
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

JC played very well until the game was really on the line. He had some outstanding stick throws yesterday. But again he had a chance to drive us down the field and win the game. Brees delivered, JC didn't. Until he does he's just going to be a middle of the pack QB. He needs to be able to take over when we need him the most. So far he hasn't done it.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:26 PM   #1268
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Which is why it's kind of odd to point out Sanchez' struggles in his rookie season in my opinion. I mean I know what you're trying to do, but still
Simple and valid explanation...we're comparing the 3 QBs we could have had and how they are performing this season. If we had Sanchez or Cutler, we would be suffering through their insane number of INTs and lack of accuracy right now instead of the Jets or Bears.

Could Sanchez develop into a capable QB later in his career? I don't think he will, but it IS possible. However, Jason is performing the best this season (what we're comparing here) and I believe in the long run will also be the best of the three. Cutler just seems to have some kind of mental block that doesn't allow him to throw to his own team...not quite as bad as Ryan Leaf...but pretty bad!

What do you expect me to do? Take Cutler's numbers this year and then wait 3 years and compare Sanchez' numbers in 2012 to Campbell's 2009 to see if we made the right choice? It could be the fair way to compare apples to apples, but that also proves the point that if we had dumped Campbell for Sanchez, we could have been setting the team's future back another 3+ years. I believed Jason was the best option both short- and long-term for the team and he's proving me correct. This is why I started tracking the 3 possible QBs in the first place, it was a hot debate where people here were in the camps of all three QBs. Earlier in the season, the Campbell detractors maintained a "I told you so, we should have gotten _______!" Being a stats nerd, I wanted to track all three QBs over the season to see if we ended up with the best of the three and if I was right about JC, to have the solid facts to back up my choice. Also, during the team's struggles, I wanted the blame to be on Jason if he was truly playing horribly, but also wanted people to be able to see that he may not be the problem and reason for the team's losses if he was in fact playing well. It's easy to blame quarterbacks for team's losses, but it's NOT always their fault. I knew if we were winning or losing, the Jason Campbell detractors would be hesitant with crediting him but would go out of their way to place all of the blame on him, without even looking at the stats and facts.

He's one of the few bright spots in this disastrous season and he should be around to enjoy the future success of the team (can't sink any lower than this year, right?)
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:29 PM   #1269
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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JC played very well until the game was really on the line. He had some outstanding stick throws yesterday. But again he had a chance to drive us down the field and win the game. Brees delivered, JC didn't. Until he does he's just going to be a middle of the pack QB. He needs to be able to take over when we need him the most. So far he hasn't done it.
To be fair, that game WAS won by us in regulation. Even without Suisham's choke, the refs completely stole the victory from us. Tough to blame Campbell or anyone on the team aside from Suisham for the loss...our team DID win the game in reality, but apparently the league wanted the Saints to remain undefeated.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:20 PM   #1270
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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To be fair, that game WAS won by us in regulation. Even without Suisham's choke, the refs completely stole the victory from us. Tough to blame Campbell or anyone on the team aside from Suisham for the loss...our team DID win the game in reality, but apparently the league wanted the Saints to remain undefeated.
I must have missed that game.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:35 PM   #1271
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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To be fair, that game WAS won by us in regulation. Even without Suisham's choke, the refs completely stole the victory from us. Tough to blame Campbell or anyone on the team aside from Suisham for the loss...our team DID win the game in reality, but apparently the league wanted the Saints to remain undefeated.
I'm not blaming the refs. Nor am I blaming JC. He played very well against a beat up secondary. He should've played well yesterday!!! All I'm saying is when the game really needs to be won he needs to take over. On that last drive he needed to take us down the field and win the game. Instead he threw a horrible INT. But let's not blame the refs. We all know they're terrible and most of the time it evens out.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:36 PM   #1272
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
JC played very well until the game was really on the line. He had some outstanding stick throws yesterday. But again he had a chance to drive us down the field and win the game. Brees delivered, JC didn't. Until he does he's just going to be a middle of the pack QB. He needs to be able to take over when we need him the most. So far he hasn't done it.
Yeah, that's the way I'm looking at it too. Campbell is the kind of QB who will have a great game every once in awhile. But he won't do it consistently, week after week.

That said, there's still a part of me that wants him to come back, (due mainly to the fact that the free agent QBs on the market next year all suck) and see if one more season of putting the pieces in place around him can propel him to the next level. Maybe we've got some of those pieces coming together with Thomas, Davis and Kelly.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:38 PM   #1273
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Simple and valid explanation...we're comparing the 3 QBs we could have had and how they are performing this season. If we had Sanchez or Cutler, we would be suffering through their insane number of INTs and lack of accuracy right now instead of the Jets or Bears.

Could Sanchez develop into a capable QB later in his career? I don't think he will, but it IS possible. However, Jason is performing the best this season (what we're comparing here) and I believe in the long run will also be the best of the three. Cutler just seems to have some kind of mental block that doesn't allow him to throw to his own team...not quite as bad as Ryan Leaf...but pretty bad!

What do you expect me to do? Take Cutler's numbers this year and then wait 3 years and compare Sanchez' numbers in 2012 to Campbell's 2009 to see if we made the right choice? It could be the fair way to compare apples to apples, but that also proves the point that if we had dumped Campbell for Sanchez, we could have been setting the team's future back another 3+ years. I believed Jason was the best option both short- and long-term for the team and he's proving me correct. This is why I started tracking the 3 possible QBs in the first place, it was a hot debate where people here were in the camps of all three QBs. Earlier in the season, the Campbell detractors maintained a "I told you so, we should have gotten _______!" Being a stats nerd, I wanted to track all three QBs over the season to see if we ended up with the best of the three and if I was right about JC, to have the solid facts to back up my choice. Also, during the team's struggles, I wanted the blame to be on Jason if he was truly playing horribly, but also wanted people to be able to see that he may not be the problem and reason for the team's losses if he was in fact playing well. It's easy to blame quarterbacks for team's losses, but it's NOT always their fault. I knew if we were winning or losing, the Jason Campbell detractors would be hesitant with crediting him but would go out of their way to place all of the blame on him, without even looking at the stats and facts.

He's one of the few bright spots in this disastrous season and he should be around to enjoy the future success of the team (can't sink any lower than this year, right?)
Are you seriously calling his season a "bright spot?" I wouldn't call it that. He's been an average NFL QB. We need him to be better than average. As I said in my last post we need him to be able to win games for us. So far he hasn't been able to do it.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:51 PM   #1274
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Are you seriously calling his season a "bright spot?" I wouldn't call it that. He's been an average NFL QB. We need him to be better than average. As I said in my last post we need him to be able to win games for us. So far he hasn't been able to do it.
As one of Campbell's strongest critics on the site tell me, has Campbell fallen below, met or exceeded your preseason expectations of him?

An argument can be made that all any one player can do is put his team in position to win games, no one player can do it alone. He did that in each of the last 3 games, would you not agree?
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:57 PM   #1275
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Are you seriously calling his season a "bright spot?" I wouldn't call it that. He's been an average NFL QB. We need him to be better than average. As I said in my last post we need him to be able to win games for us. So far he hasn't been able to do it.
Since Sherman Lewis took over the play calling he has been a very good NFL quarterback. Where Buster errs is in the fact that he thought he was a very good NFL quarterback even before that change. That was not the case. Even against Detroit, when he put up big numbers, he played poorly in the second half, held the ball too long, and did not make stick throws. Given the dramatic difference in his play since the change in play caller, I'm thinking that Zorn played a bigger role in that than I had thought. If you wanted to be positive about the thing, you could say that part of his development in the previous weeks might be due to the fact that Zorn can now devote more attention to coaching the quarterbacks both in-game and during the week.

The "he needs to win games despite any other factors" metric that you have set up is useless (as is the straight statistical analysis quite frankly). Look at the film, evaluate the performance, look at the speed of decision making, the willingness to make throws into tight windows, accuracy, footwork and ball speed. Campbell has been very good in all areas, especially the last three weeks. He is playing at a high level right now and the reason the team has lost is not attributable to him. I can see how you could look at the INT late and say, "same old story," but really what you are saying right now is anything short of perfection is not good enough. You want a superhuman performance, rather than simply looking at an individual who is performing at a very high - if perhaps not quite elite - level.
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