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Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Old 12-10-2009, 09:03 PM   #1336
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Paintrain View Post
Drinking and posting is never a good look.
Those are examples of situations in life where a guy doesn't get be evaluated on a level playing field with every mitigating factor considered before an (often harsh) judgment is made... IMO This is actually an interesting argument so, really try and bring something better than Smiley's and short generic highly unoriginal pot shots.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:51 PM   #1337
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by 44 70 chip View Post
Those are examples of situations in life where a guy doesn't get be evaluated on a level playing field with every mitigating factor considered before an (often harsh) judgment is made... IMO This is actually an interesting argument so, really try and bring something better than Smiley's and short generic highly unoriginal pot shots.
This is only true of bad organizations.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:09 PM   #1338
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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This is only true of bad organizations.
IMO it's true of every facet of life regardless of good or bad... Anyway that's besides the point.

If we can't compare Romo to Campbell then we can';t compare any football player to any other Football player (or team or coach or anything else).

I don't know how we evaluate ANY QB if we have to put them on the exact same team, playing the same schedule etc. How many of you are willing to commit to that philosophy? You can't Judge Zorn against Bill Belicheck can't judge Snyder against Cook... different circumstances, players, etc.

Are some of you guys going to go that far just because you can't stand that Romo is a better QB than Jason Campbell? Don't hate me because I'm being honest, I dislike Romo but I'm not going to lie to myself
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:11 PM   #1339
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

I'm not making excuses or taking up for anyone, if we can get someone better than Campbell... great. I just find a lot of these comparisons pointless. 2 years ago, Romo was playing on a team that had, I think, 13 players who made the Pro Bowl. Campbell? He was in the process of learning yet another system that no one on the team was familiar with except Todd Collins as far as I know. I can go on, but then it sounds like excuses. Is it a surprise that the Cowgirls QB would have better numbers than the QB of the Redskins? It shouldn't be.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:04 AM   #1340
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

Rumors on ESPN have the Rams making a serious run at JC in the offseason. We'll see how it plays out.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:16 AM   #1341
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Well nothing in life is judged from a perfectly level playing field, least of all football players. It's not fair... but that's life. Absolutely everyone is judged on how they perform with little to no curve or weighting given to circumstances or surroundings or other factors...
What you describe above is a great way to make inaccurate value judgements.
If the circumstances aren't consider you cannot make an accurate assessment.
Imo, its this type exact type of thinking that's probably lead to our poor personnel decisions.

For example Cutler is the same QB he was with the Broncos he didn't get worse, but if you made a value judgement based on his stats alone without considering the circumstances you would now be surprised by his supposed lack of production in Chicago.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:08 AM   #1342
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Rumors on ESPN have the Rams making a serious run at JC in the offseason. We'll see how it plays out.
I think there will be a significant market for Campbell this offseason. If we don't at least tender him at the 1st and 3rd round levels and get at least a 2nd for him we'd be fools.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:51 AM   #1343
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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I think there will be a significant market for Campbell this offseason. If we don't at least tender him at the 1st and 3rd round levels and get at least a 2nd for him we'd be fools.
But we have made it so clear that JC isn't welcome here, that other teams will certainly lowball as much as they can. Campbell has value, but we have not done much to increase or market that value.
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:07 PM   #1344
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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But we have made it so clear that JC isn't welcome here, that other teams will certainly lowball as much as they can. Campbell has value, but we have not done much to increase or market that value.
Very true. Campbell's agent will drive much of it though. If he strikes a deal with another team while Campbell is tendered the ball really shifts to our court. We really have most of the power in this scenario.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:46 PM   #1345
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Old 12-11-2009, 03:23 PM   #1346
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

Diner News: Should 'Skins keep Campbell? - NFL - CBSSports.com Football
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:33 PM   #1347
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
What you describe above is a great way to make inaccurate value judgements.
If the circumstances aren't consider you cannot make an accurate assessment.
Imo, its this type exact type of thinking that's probably lead to our poor personnel decisions.

For example Cutler is the same QB he was with the Broncos he didn't get worse, but if you made a value judgement based on his stats alone without considering the circumstances you would now be surprised by his supposed lack of production in Chicago.
That's about as well as I could have said it. The statistics are critical to understanding player value, but they're useless if you can't read them properly.
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:40 PM   #1348
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by 44 70 chip View Post
IMO it's true of every facet of life regardless of good or bad... Anyway that's besides the point.

If we can't compare Romo to Campbell then we can';t compare any football player to any other Football player (or team or coach or anything else).

I don't know how we evaluate ANY QB if we have to put them on the exact same team, playing the same schedule etc. How many of you are willing to commit to that philosophy? You can't Judge Zorn against Bill Belicheck can't judge Snyder against Cook... different circumstances, players, etc.

Are some of you guys going to go that far just because you can't stand that Romo is a better QB than Jason Campbell? Don't hate me because I'm being honest, I dislike Romo but I'm not going to lie to myself
Some comparisons are better than others. Tony Romo is a much better quarterback than Jason Campbell. Romo is also a very flawed player in his own right, but given all of his strengths and weaknesses, he's still the best quarterback in the division. You can look at all the stats to see this, you can look at overall offensive production, etc.

It's also not really a conversation worth having. Campbell has done pretty well for himself here. If Romo were here and Campbell were there, the gap between their numbers would be basically non-existant. Romo would never be an 8.0 YPA passer with the Redskins. Just wouldn't happen. Campbell's improvement to 7.4 this year is pretty remarkable all things considered: clearly, he's squeezing every last drop of potential out of the offense.

And what's the end game? 3-9, underachieving their true potential by about two or three games because in crunch time, our pass defense goes to oblivion and Campbell seems to rush his decision making to avoid sack? That's where we are. We could bring in a rookie quarterback and rebuild while we're paying all that money to the defense to be mediocre, but that's not going to stop the disappointment.
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:46 PM   #1349
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

Whoever was supposed to proofread that article did an awful job. Campbell has 123 plays over 25 yards in the past 4 weeks. He's throwing to new TE Fred JONES?

That being said, he makes some valid points, especially regarding Campbell & Shanahan. It's going to be an interesting first 3 months of 2010.
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Old 12-11-2009, 04:32 PM   #1350
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Paintrain View Post
Whoever was supposed to proofread that article did an awful job. Campbell has 123 plays over 25 yards in the past 4 weeks. He's throwing to new TE Fred JONES?

That being said, he makes some valid points, especially regarding Campbell & Shanahan. It's going to be an interesting first 3 months of 2010.
Thanks for the link. I agree that Campbell's play (assuming he doesnt revert back to his old self over the last 4 games) merits keeping him around. I also agree that he has more trade value now than he did last year. If Shanahan becomes the next head coach here and doesn't want Campbell, we should be able to get good value for him. I even think its possible we could trade him to Arizona for Leinhart and THEY'D be the ones having to throw something extra in to seal the deal, if for no other reason than Campbell is a known, solid, if not spectacular commodity; whereas Leinhart is still largely a question mark.
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