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Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Old 01-04-2010, 10:42 AM   #1366
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

I think a team can win with JC, but everything else has to be perfect for him to succeed. He can't win you the game on his arm. But he can be a good game manager when everything is going well around him.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:43 AM   #1367
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life View Post
Fellas, well Jason Campbell came through and won me m $100 for throwing 20 touchdowns. He is still sorry as shit. That's my opinion but I know some of you feel like he can be a winner. I don't.
Fine analysis.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:46 AM   #1368
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by SolidSnake84 View Post
I think a team can win with JC, but everything else has to be perfect for him to succeed. He can't win you the game on his arm. But he can be a good game manager when everything is going well around him.
Like Mark Rypien? He never really had success anywhere else, but with a core of good WRs and an offensive line, the Redskins were one of the most explosive offenses in the history of the game.

We have plenty of targets for Campbell. We need the protection and I believe the offense can start winning games rather than relying on the defense to win every game, which is tough when they're on the field far longer than they should be.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:48 AM   #1369
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

agree on every point. Still not sold that JC is a franchise QB. Jim Zorn didn't think so.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:48 AM   #1370
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Buster View Post
Thank you.

I just hope we do not blow our #5 pick on Bradford. We need the best OT in the draft with that pick, I won't settle for anyone else. If we do not build up the line to be the best it can possibly be, which means using the Round 1 pick on the line, any QB we put in there will be beaten and battered like JC was this year. Bradford won't survive physically like Campbell did. He seems fragile and dislocates his shoulders from sneezing. He may not be able to stay healthy with any team in the NFL, but if he is behind a Redskins line that is not repaired, his career will be short and unsuccessful. I have faith that Allen will not screw our draft up like Cerrato. Vinny made some great picks, Fred Davis, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Chris Horton and others are the most recent, but his annual ignoring of the O-line all nut nullifies their contributions to the team and that's just unacceptable.
100% agree, VC had an inexplicable avoidance system in place for drafting OL, and that was one of a few tragic flaws. I really want to see a solid plan for the line, draft -FA- combination, just so we know that it is being addressed competently. That is where the off season discussion needs to be focused.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:55 AM   #1371
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by SolidSnake84 View Post
agree on every point. Still not sold that JC is a franchise QB. Jim Zorn didn't think so.
Zorn had a lot of interesting thoughts.


We do not need a better QB than JC though. The team has a lot of weapons on offense: Moss, Kelly, Thomas, Mitchell at WR. Cooley and Davis are the best TE tandem in the NFL. RB is a little unclear but easily repairable with a single draft pick later in the draft or a FA pickup to supplement what we have. Trading Betts looks like a great option to upgrade through the draft, getting an extra 4th-round pick for him to use on the line could let us use a 2nd or 4th on a RB if we use the 1st on a OT. We could get a L. McCoy-type back to supplement Portis, who is beginning to look like Westbrook at this point of his career.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:01 AM   #1372
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Buster View Post
Zorn had a lot of interesting thoughts.


We do not need a better QB than JC though. The team has a lot of weapons on offense: Moss, Kelly, Thomas, Mitchell at WR. Cooley and Davis are the best TE tandem in the NFL. RB is a little unclear but easily repairable with a single draft pick later in the draft or a FA pickup to supplement what we have. Trading Betts looks like a great option to upgrade through the draft, getting an extra 4th-round pick for him to use on the line could let us use a 2nd or 4th on a RB if we use the 1st on a OT. We could get a L. McCoy-type back to supplement Portis, who is beginning to look like Westbrook at this point of his career.
Buster...are you Jason Campbell's dad?
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:07 AM   #1373
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

Buster, thanks for your diligence in keeping this up week to week. Campbell did what many said he couldn't do-improve in virtually every aspect of his game-and did so in the most trying of circumstances.

I'd be interested to see what he would do with Shanahan and a rebuilt offensive line. The talent is there at the WR and TE positions, we need the upgrade the line and the running game regardless of the QB.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:26 AM   #1374
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

I agree Paintrain and thanks for the stats Buster. I thought JC did pretty well with one of the worse, if not THE worse, o-lines in the NFL and a mostly non-existant running game.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:08 PM   #1375
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Buster...are you Jason Campbell's dad?
You caught me. The black eye actually came from me for throwing 2 picks in the Giants game.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:03 PM   #1376
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Buster View Post
[SIZE=2]FINAL stats/assessment:
I love how you bolded the stats that Campbell did the best in, while leaving more important stats unemphasized. Kinda tells it's own tale

Here's the truth, Campbell's career averages (stats that can be compared to other QB's regardless of number of games played) among 38 active QB's:

TD percentage: 3.4% tied for 30th out a 38 active QB's (utterly horrible, JP Losman is more likely to throw a TD on a given passing play, reflects unwillingnes to take chances)
Completion %: 61.2% 18th
(decent, but improved by his tendency to check down too often, also shows his unwillingness to take chances)
Yards Per Attempt: 6.6 tied for 26th
(reflects his tendency to check down)
Yards per completion: 10.8 tied for 33rd out of 38
(really reinforces the fact that he tends to be too timid and checks down too quickly and too often)
Interception % 2.3% tied for 4th of 38
(Fantastic! freakishly high for a mediocre QB... because he's checking down too often which means less risk of interception)
Pass Attempts per game: 31.5 11th
(interesting that he's 11th in attempts while being so low in yards per completion, if it needed reinforcement, then this is cement).

Everything in his stats points to the QB he really is, a mediocre QB, a nice guy, a tough guy, but overly conservative, hessitant and timid with his decision making.

Last edited by 44 70 chip; 01-04-2010 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:33 AM   #1377
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by 44 70 chip View Post
I love how you bolded the stats that Campbell did the best in, while leaving more important stats unemphasized. Kinda tells it's own tale

Here's the truth, Campbell's career averages (stats that can be compared to other QB's regardless of number of games played) among 38 active QB's:

TD percentage: 3.4% tied for 30th out a 38 active QB's (utterly horrible, JP Losman is more likely to throw a TD on a given passing play, reflects unwillingnes to take chances)
Completion %: 61.2% 18th
(decent, but improved by his tendency to check down too often, also shows his unwillingness to take chances)
Yards Per Attempt: 6.6 tied for 26th
(reflects his tendency to check down)
Yards per completion: 10.8 tied for 33rd out of 38
(really reinforces the fact that he tends to be too timid and checks down too quickly and too often)
Interception % 2.3% tied for 4th of 38
(Fantastic! freakishly high for a mediocre QB... because he's checking down too often which means less risk of interception)
Pass Attempts per game: 31.5 11th
(interesting that he's 11th in attempts while being so low in yards per completion, if it needed reinforcement, then this is cement).

Everything in his stats points to the QB he really is, a mediocre QB, a nice guy, a tough guy, but overly conservative, hessitant and timid with his decision making.
You love to accuse him of checkdowns out of preference, but with no time to throw and no protection, his short passes were out of necessity. In fact, most of the time, all that was possible with this joke of a line was short passes and screens...WRs can't run downfield and complete routes when the QB is getting nailed 3 steps into his dropback. Early in his career and new with the Zorn offense (if you can call it that), you'd be right about his "timidity" and hesitation, but if you actually paid attention this season, you would have watched his game mature and some signs of real leadership and decisiveness appear, even without much help from his line and teammates.

You're also missing the entire point of this massive thread and my work, it's not to say he's the next Johnny Unitas...it was to prove and support my argument that he was the best of these three QBs that were being discussed as the 2009 Redskins quarterback. He was clearly better than the other two and keeping him was the correct choice. I believe he's earned his place on the team. I realize you're new here and joined halfway through this thread, but no one is saying he's a top NFL QB yet. Potentially he could be with a real offensive line and proper leadership (like Shanahan), but at this time, he's just a better fit than Cutler or Sanchez for the team. That's all we were debating in here.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:38 AM   #1378
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Build a strong team from the inside out and you won't have to worry about finding the next superstar QB who has to win you games on his arm alone.
You lie...what a crazy idea!
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:40 AM   #1379
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

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Originally Posted by 44 70 chip View Post
I love how you bolded the stats that Campbell did the best in, while leaving more important stats unemphasized. Kinda tells it's own tale

Here's the truth, Campbell's career averages (stats that can be compared to other QB's regardless of number of games played) among 38 active QB's:

TD percentage: 3.4% tied for 30th out a 38 active QB's (utterly horrible, JP Losman is more likely to throw a TD on a given passing play, reflects unwillingnes to take chances)
Completion %: 61.2% 18th
(decent, but improved by his tendency to check down too often, also shows his unwillingness to take chances)
Yards Per Attempt: 6.6 tied for 26th
(reflects his tendency to check down)
Yards per completion: 10.8 tied for 33rd out of 38
(really reinforces the fact that he tends to be too timid and checks down too quickly and too often)
Interception % 2.3% tied for 4th of 38
(Fantastic! freakishly high for a mediocre QB... because he's checking down too often which means less risk of interception)
Pass Attempts per game: 31.5 11th
(interesting that he's 11th in attempts while being so low in yards per completion, if it needed reinforcement, then this is cement).

Everything in his stats points to the QB he really is, a mediocre QB, a nice guy, a tough guy, but overly conservative, hessitant and timid with his decision making.
The numbers absolutely support the narrative that Jason Campbell is unwilling to look downfield, but I've found that once you put the tape on him, the very worst he can be accused of is reacting to the defense/occasionally looking at the rush.

Basically, the one criticism of him that the statistics back falls apart with additional evidence.

I have legitimate concern about his ability to be an accurate QB in the future, but I do know he has been an accurate passer in the past.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:43 AM   #1380
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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie

Whether Campbell was the better choice than the other two guys mentioned here for 2009 and whether he was the better choice for for 2009 and beyond are two different things.
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