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The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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Old 09-30-2009, 11:26 AM   #16
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

Mike Nolan got canned 7 games in last year. It's not uncommon at all.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:30 AM   #17
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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What do you mean? Didn't three coaches get fired mid-season last year?
Yeah, my fault. I had a brain cramp. I was sitting here thinking and couldn't come up with one. Ugh. Looks like I'll be having a cup of coffee with lunch.

Aside from Nolan, who were the other two?
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:32 AM   #18
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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Yeah, my fault. I had a brain cramp. I was sitting here thinking and couldn't come up with one. Ugh. Looks like I'll be having a cup of coffee with lunch.

Aside from Nolan, who were the other two?
Lane Kiffin and Scott Linehan
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:46 AM   #19
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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Lane Kiffin and Scott Linehan
True. Well, I don't think there's a Mike Singletary type candidate on our staff who can step in, and I don't think Oakland or St. Louis were any better in the short term after firing those two guys.

I guess this could sort of make a case for not canning Zorn mid-season.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:50 AM   #20
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

You know what would be just great? Name Stan Hixon interim head coach
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:53 AM   #21
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

As opposed to firing Jim Zorn. How about giving him some help. Hire a full time offensive coordinator that can take over the play calling responsibilities. Unfortunately, that would require Zorn to admit that he is failing in that role.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:13 PM   #22
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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Are you sure that you don't want to reconsider that opinion?

If this team is 1-6 at the bye week, that would mean that we lost to at least three teams (Detroit, KC, and Tampa) that are certifiably terrible and one other (Carolina) that may be mired in a dismal winless season by the time we play them.

If we're 1-6 at the bye, it's possible that we would then be the only team that any of those four teams had beaten this season and we would have lost five straight games during the easy part of our schedule - three of them at home.

At that point, I'm pretty sure that Zorn would be fired immediately. We're talking about what Dan Snyder, not Job, might do.
I would agree that, if the team is in fact 1-6 at the bye week, Zorn will most likely be fired. And I'm not sure that the firing in that circumstance would be the result of a real or imagined shoot-from-the-hip nature of Snyder. Because a 1-6 record would virtually guarantee a firing at least at the end of the season, I think there would be a legitimate front office concern that the maintaining of the status quo might raise the possibility of shots fired back and forth between players and the coaching staff, all of whom will see the writing on the wall and will let loose any frustration they may have built up over the past 19 games. Such an environment, lasting nine weeks, wouldn't do anybody any good, and in fact, only bad things could come of it.

But I also think that it would require this worst-case scenario to get Zorn fired at the break. As others have said, it will be an interim coach who replaces Zorn if he's fired mid-season, meaning that the coach will merely be a caretaker one. So, while, on the one hand, the FO would want to avoid the possible damage that might stem from a really bad environment at Redskins Park that would shape if we were at 1-6, firing Zorn at mid-season would essentially be the FO's giving up on the season, which, even if we're 3-4 at the break, might be a little premature and could invite the same criticism Snyder got when he fired Norv before the end of the year. Yes, our schedule will only get tougher from that point on, but still, raising the white flag at that point might be too soon.

And if we're 2-5? I have no clue. That's the situation where FO people earn their money.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:15 PM   #23
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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His career was in trouble the minute Shanahan, Holmgren, and Chucky became available. I am not sure what will keep his job short of a NFC championship or super bowl appearance. It stinks to say that, and honestly I dont know how to feel about this staff. I think Zorn in a bright football person, and can turn things around in time. In my deepest of hearts I want to keep a staff for more than two years, let them develop into a team with chemistry, let zorn and Campbell grow ala Zorn and hasselbach, ala Reid and McNabb. This organization gives up too quickly on coaching staffs and starts talking the next guy. I really want Zorn to work out, he's young and I think will be a good coach in this league. But, Snyder had to realize that this guy is who he is, right now! He was a QB coach, thats it. never called plays, never designed game plans, never had all the meetings and responsiblity that is involved. That is why I think you need to give this guy more than two seasons. The offense is getting better, except the redzone. Jasons numbers have improved, he looks better and will get better as he gets comfortable. This is something this organization needs. A coach that can grow with the team, the team that can grow with the coach.

One of the more sensible ideas puy forth, and something the more patient fan has been suggesting for a long time.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:33 PM   #24
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Exclamation Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

I think his fate is already
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:38 PM   #25
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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I don't entirely understand the Rooney rule but I'm not sure if we can just hire Shanahan mid-season just like that
That's my point. The Rooney rule just means we have to interview a minority for the position.

but there is a rule in regards to talking to other teams coach's during the season or it's tampering. Unless the other team allows us to speak with him. The problem is he's so productive I doubt the Jets would say yeah go ahead.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:43 PM   #26
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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I can't ever remember it happening. Actually, when was the last time a coach got fired mid-season at all? That in itself is a very rare occurrence, let alone giving the guy a boot and bringing in an outsider. I think the only guy out there that would work for us in that regard would be Gruden. He runs the same system and has never been one to insist on GM-like control over personnel. But he's not that dumb. He wouldn't come here under those circumstances.



You think DS is becoming good friends with Shanahan based soley on the fact that his plane was spotted in Denver and he supposedly wasn't even on it? Nah.
Perhaps I'm wrong ...again. I should have said Cerrato seemed comfortable enough with Shanny to call him up, and I doubt it was totally in regards to Alridge. I like Alridge a lot. Glad the picked him up. but find it interesting they would contact Shanny in regards to him. Almost feels like maybe someone was feeling out Shanny in regards to his coaching desires and yes Alridge probably did come up or perhaps Alridge first then the other.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:44 PM   #27
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

I could see Sherman Smith honestly taking over in the interim until next year...
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:45 PM   #28
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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Originally Posted by BringBackJoeT View Post
I would agree that, if the team is in fact 1-6 at the bye week, Zorn will most likely be fired. And I'm not sure that the firing in that circumstance would be the result of a real or imagined shoot-from-the-hip nature of Snyder. Because a 1-6 record would virtually guarantee a firing at least at the end of the season, I think there would be a legitimate front office concern that the maintaining of the status quo might raise the possibility of shots fired back and forth between players and the coaching staff, all of whom will see the writing on the wall and will let loose any frustration they may have built up over the past 19 games. Such an environment, lasting nine weeks, wouldn't do anybody any good, and in fact, only bad things could come of it.

But I also think that it would require this worst-case scenario to get Zorn fired at the break. As others have said, it will be an interim coach who replaces Zorn if he's fired mid-season, meaning that the coach will merely be a caretaker one. So, while, on the one hand, the FO would want to avoid the possible damage that might stem from a really bad environment at Redskins Park that would shape if we were at 1-6, firing Zorn at mid-season would essentially be the FO's giving up on the season, which, even if we're 3-4 at the break, might be a little premature and could invite the same criticism Snyder got when he fired Norv before the end of the year. Yes, our schedule will only get tougher from that point on, but still, raising the white flag at that point might be too soon.

And if we're 2-5? I have no clue. That's the situation where FO people earn their money.
You made some good points. I'd like to comment on the two points I highlighted.

I think it is a commonly held management belief that once an executive has made up his mind to fire a manager, it's better to do it right away. There are numerous reasons for believing that is the right course of action. I'll mention a couple: First, if you're going down the wrong road there is no sense in continuing down that road. Second, it's very hard to maintain a satisfactory working relationship between the executive and the manager he's decided to fire and, soon enough, it will become apparent to the employees that the manager is a lame duck.

Yes, I agree that if Zorn were to be fired at midseason that, in effect, Dan Snyder would be giving up on the season. But I don't think Zorn would be fired simply because of a poor record. He would be fired because of a poor record and also because Snyder had the sense that the players, as a group, had lost their trust and confidence in their HC and had given up on him. In that case, the season is lost anyway.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:49 PM   #29
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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Originally Posted by GMScud View Post
True. Well, I don't think there's a Mike Singletary type candidate on our staff who can step in, and I don't think Oakland or St. Louis were any better in the short term after firing those two guys.

I guess this could sort of make a case for not canning Zorn mid-season.
Which is my other point. If Zorn got canned who else understands Zorn's system enough to take it over and be productive? I'm guessing no one since he was teaching the coach's all last yr as well as the players.

Whoever came in mid season out side the organization would be at a serious disadvantage. Then if things don't look good the rest of the season DS runs the risk of alienating the new HC with the fans complaining about him not changing or fixing the problem. DS's best bet now is to wait till end of season with a HC in mind then cut Zorn. Let the new HC decide who he would want to keep on the coaching staff (hopefully not Hixon) and let the new HC bring in his people. People who know/understand what he's trying to do and can help teach the players.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:51 PM   #30
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Re: The next four games may determine Zorn's fate.

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You know what would be just great? Name Stan Hixon interim head coach
ROFLMAO. WOW. where did that come from? I mean if we can rejoice in the teams greatness then we might as well laugh at it's incompatence.
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