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Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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Old 09-30-2009, 03:09 PM   #31
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

I would love Holmgren as GM and letting him pick the coach. I agree that he has a bad track record doing both jobs.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:19 PM   #32
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

It's got to be Gruden if the GM/Head coach are going to be the same body. Shanahan, Holmgren have both failed in that role, and I just don't think Cowher is a good coach, plain and simple.

None of these options are more appealing to me than Zorn, but if they bring their entire staffs with them, at least the whole team would be better coached than it is right now.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:27 PM   #33
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
It's got to be Gruden if the GM/Head coach are going to be the same body. Shanahan, Holmgren have both failed in that role, and I just don't think Cowher is a good coach, plain and simple.

None of these options are more appealing to me than Zorn, but if they bring their entire staffs with them, at least the whole team would be better coached than it is right now.
What makes you think Gruden would do well in a dual capacity? Better than say Brian Billick (just to throw a name out there)

I think Cowher would be a good head coach because he would probably do like he did in Pittsburgh and Gibbs at least tried to do here. And that is he would hire proven coordinators while he oversees everything.

How he would do as a GM is up for debate
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:36 PM   #34
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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What makes you think Gruden would do well in a dual capacity? Better than say Brian Billick (just to throw a name out there)

I think Cowher would be a good head coach because he would probably do like he did in Pittsburgh and Gibbs at least tried to do here. And that is he would hire proven coordinators while he oversees everything.

How he would do as a GM is up for debate
I think Gruden conceptually understands the concept of replaceability better than most coaches, even most GMs. He wouldn't be married to Santana Moss for another three seasons because the guy has held a "no. 1 receiver" role before. He gets quality productivity out of guys like Ike Hilliard who don't cost anything. And he understands that, if Jason Campbell isn't the answer, he doesn't have to invest a top 5 pick to find a franchise QB.

Now, this leads to some maddening tendencies, like having to try out eighty billion different QBs who probably aren't the answer to find one guy who is, and that can lead to 4-12 seasons deflated by the Bruce Gradkowski's of the world.

But I believe he's also the kind of coach (and this is just an example, not something I advocate) who can spend a pick at the bottom of the second round on a guy like Tim Tebow and then quickly turn a punchless offense into one tailored for his strengths. I also believe with the money we already have tied up in defense, going with someone who isn't Greg Blache and maybe adding a piece at linebacker or defensive back can get this defense back to where we expect it to be. Gruden is a guy who can transform the offense overnight (and cheaply), and can make us competitive in 2010.

My number one choice is that we win 10 games this year with Jason Campbell taking the league by storm and Jim Zorn growing into the roles he currently holds and learning how to coach an entire football team.

My number two choice is Jon Gruden.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:37 PM   #35
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

Holgrem said he wants to be on the east coast, and mentioned Skins, Eagles, and Giants as places he would like to coach, b/c those cities are so focused on football. Don't rule out Cowher yet. Until Cerrato goes, who we have coaching might not make a difference.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:39 PM   #36
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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What makes you think Gruden would do well in a dual capacity? Better than say Brian Billick (just to throw a name out there)

I think Cowher would be a good head coach because he would probably do like he did in Pittsburgh and Gibbs at least tried to do here. And that is he would hire proven coordinators while he oversees everything.

How he would do as a GM is up for debate
I think if you told me that you had been to the future and we had already hired Bill Cowher, I would say: "I think that can work, but only if he comes in and keeps Jason Campbell."

Then you'd tell me that we didn't, and I would predict 5-11 with a worse offense than we had this year (and a better defense).
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:40 PM   #37
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

The fact that Cowher bought a house in N.C. doesn't really matter. He is from N.C., and his daughters go to school there. Just becasue a guy buys a house doesn't mean that is where he is going to coach. Who knows if Bill will even come back? No one. Besides is Carolina going to pay him the kind of money he will want? Doubt that to. Having a debate over who we would like to have as our next head coach if fine, but bringing up facts that really have no bearing and are all conjecture where coach a or b is going to land is irrelevent.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:46 PM   #38
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:49 PM   #39
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

Speaking of Gruden anyone else hear him today on NFL radio? He is so freaking funny. He really does have a bright career ahead of him in broadcasting. The stories he tells are just hilarious. He would be one of those guys I would love to have a beer with and just listen to his football stories.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:50 PM   #40
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.
Holmgren is probably a worse playcaller than Zorn is, at least based on his work with Seahawks teams. But this team doesn't need a genius playcaller, it needs a stronger leadership figure.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:52 PM   #41
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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Thats the funniest thing Ive read all week, you gotta be a Maryland fan. Heyer is a decent back-up at best, no way should he be starting. Look at the tape!!!
I agree that he shouldn't be considered starting caliber, but Jason Campbell has had time to throw this year. His problem continues to be creating lanes in the running game. Of course it sounds like you thought I was putting his pass blocking skills on par with that of Chris Samuals.

Thats not the case, I'm probably even more tired this point of the Heyer experiment then you are, which in part is why I wanted the team to sign Ray Willis during the offseason. Now Seattle only has the 15th best rushing attack in the league right now but they're lead running back is averaging almost 5 yards per carry right now (4.9) while their lead back has 10 carries for 56 yards. I'm pretty sure part of that is due to the fact that they can run the ball to either side.

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.
All the more reason to hire a guy like DeCosta and let him lead a coaching search. If he sees one of the big names out there as a good fit then great. If a young up and comer suits this teams needs better then so be it.

I would prefer someone though that could motivate players and help get quality coordinators into gameplan. Plus the good thing is when you have a Mike Smith or a Jim Harbraugh as your head coach you can be a little more liberal with your coordinators where as in Jim Zorn's situation we're pretty much F'd because despite the debacle we have on offense he's still the most qualified person to call plays.

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Holmgren is probably a worse playcaller than Zorn is, at least based on his work with Seahawks teams. But this team doesn't need a genius playcaller, it needs a stronger leadership figure.
Why do you say that?
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:53 PM   #42
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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Speaking of Gruden anyone else hear him today on NFL radio? He is so freaking funny. He really does have a bright career ahead of him in broadcasting. The stories he tells are just hilarious. He would be one of those guys I would love to have a beer with and just listen to his football stories.
He reminds me of Terry Bradshaw a little bit, but Terry when he's not being completely, over-the-top goofy.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:59 PM   #43
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.
Did Gruden say he was not interested in coaching next year in general or specificaly the Redskins?
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:00 PM   #44
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.
My feeling exactly. There's a reason Gruden and Billick are out of jobs. There are reasons that Cowher coached for over a decade before finally winning a SB. Remember, there were times when any team other than the Steelers would have canned him. As for Holmgren. He won a SB with a team Ron Wolf built and won a playoff game or two with teams he built...at best. Shanahan was basically the same. It's not like we're talking about perennial stud coaches here. They all bring with them some baggage or blemishes

Another issue here, looming, is the CBA situation. Not knowing how teams are going to be constructed in the future makes a lot of this talk a little presumptuous. Maybe in 2 years it'll be a free-for-all and all the money teams can sign every good player out there and buld true fantasy teams. Then how big a deal is a GM? Probably less important than now. But maybe not.
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:12 PM   #45
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Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder

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Did Gruden say he was not interested in coaching next year in general or specificaly the Redskins?
Um, well the question was specifically about the Redskins
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