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Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Old 10-01-2009, 12:53 PM   #31
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well it's assumed that JKC ran the team in a completely different way

But let me ask you this then...just how many owners in the NFL do we hear from during the season? How many make public addresses to fans? How many say "my fault'?
I don't assume JKC ran the team differently, I know it. I was there for that era, too. One other thing JKC did differently: He won Super Bowls.

Most owners don't talk a lot during the season because most owners aren't making personnel decisions the way Snyder does. An owner who is as involved as Snyder is Jerry Jones and he speaks to the media all the time about what is going on with the team. Whatever one wants to say about Jerry Jones, at least he doesn't hide from people trying to hold him accountable for what he does. Jones generally makes poor decisions [hiring Jimmy Johnson and letting him run the team for 5 years was about the only good football decision I can think of Jones making], but at least Jones will talk about them publicly and on the record. That's a lot more than you get from Snyder.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:01 PM   #32
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Sally has bashed the organization for a long time. When the team is losing she's on her high horse smiling. When the team is winning you don't hear from her.

but what is getting under my skin more is the fans are starting to complain, the media is starting to complain, and now there is damage control happening. If there is anything taking place on this team to correct the problems no one sees it. Yet Zorn comes on Redskins Nation and touts how the team is getting better. The players are showing up on the media circles saying "It's only 3 games", "Give us a chance", "Hang in there with us", etc. etc. etc. It feels like a Pep rally to keep spirits up and I just don't feel it. If anything to me it's making it worse. For me. I can't speak to everyone elses feelings.

If everyone can take a moment to reflect...when Spurrier was here all the players where saying the same sort of things. After Spurrier left is when we heard about all the stupid stuff that went on and how the players didn't buy into the system that was not working. Maybe we will hear something interesting about Zorn some day also.
Yeah the majority of the messages being sent out are along those lines, trying to stay positive, but if you've paid attention you see D. Hall wondering if guys really want it. You hear Carlos Rogers saying that the team lacks an identity right now. You hear Fletcher say this isn't a great team. Today, Haynesworth said the team isn't playing up to it's potential.

Feel better? It's not all a pep rally.

But of course guys are gonna try to stay positive for the most part. It's a long season. I do think the fan/media freak out frenzy has been a bit over the top lately.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:02 PM   #33
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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At least Jerry Jones admits the he's making lots of personnel decisions and meets regularly with the media to discuss, explain and defend those positions. Snyder's too gutless to come out of the shadows, acknowledge what everyone already knows is the truth and face the music. Coaches and GMs around the league meet with the media to discuss and explain their decisions. Snyder, as the main personnel decision-maker, should do the same. It's cowardly to do otherwise.
This has to be the ultimate point of contention, what proof do you have that he is the main personnel decision-maker? or how do you define that statement?

He certainly has a weighted input, but once he hires a coach, he seems to let that coach get what he wants. Now if you are saying that because he signs the checks he is the main personnel decision-maker, then every owner is by definition the "main personnel decision-maker".
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:06 PM   #34
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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I don't assume JKC ran the team differently, I know it. I was there for that era, too. One other thing JKC did differently: He won Super Bowls.

Most owners don't talk a lot during the season because most owners aren't making personnel decisions the way Snyder does. An owner who is as involved as Snyder is Jerry Jones and he speaks to the media all the time about what is going on with the team. Whatever one wants to say about Jerry Jones, at least he doesn't hide from people trying to hold him accountable for what he does. Jones generally makes poor decisions [hiring Jimmy Johnson and letting him run the team for 5 years was about the only good football decision I can think of Jones making], but at least Jones will talk about them publicly and on the record. That's a lot more than you get from Snyder.
Could it just be a difference in personalities with Jones/Syder?

Jones is not camera shy and seems to enjoy being in the limelight. From the day Snyder took over the team he's never been one to do extensive interviews or look for much face time on camera. Jones on the other hand goes out and has had plastic surgery to his face for crying out loud. Jones also goes down on the field during games as we've all seen a million times and he let HBO film Hard Knocks with them and he seemed to be in nearly every shot.

Snyder just seems more comfortable saying in the background to me. And I really don't think he's as involved in football decisions as Jones is. Jones is clearly in a GM role there. Snyder at the very worst is 50/50 with Vinny, and I'm not sure he's even that heavily involved.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:08 PM   #35
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Sure, it's a fairly broad brush she's painting with, but that's intentional in that she notes 10 years is long enough to establish a track record. As a fan though, I can only remember a few interviews prior to the season opening in which DS said he's "learned" from his mistakes. I don't recall him doing any tv interviews or making any public addresses to the fans. He clearly wants to dictate the terms of any media relations, which takes a lot of effort these days, and adds to the poor perception of him, fair or not.

JKC definitely ran the team in a completely different way. Of course, he questioned his coaches, he was very hard on Gibbs when the team was off to an 0-5 start. But he had a structure in place that worked to build a winner. When asked about Art Monk leaving, JKC said that he wasn't going to step in because then he would be doing someone else's job, but he said sadly that the whole thing was mismanaged. That's an unfortunate example, but the best one I can recall in terms of him saying that he stayed out of personnel.

Plus, in all the years JKC owned the team, I never saw him in the war room on draft day.

The only interview I've seen of late with snyder where he was afforded the opportunity to speak about his hands on approach was with LM. He was asked about the possibility of hiring a GM and his response was "If it ain't broke don't fix it. Therefore it's painfully obvious that he thinks what he's doing works. If that be true, why is he constantly hiring and firing coaches every two years?
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:08 PM   #36
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by Spence View Post
I don't assume JKC ran the team differently, I know it. I was there for that era, too. One other thing JKC did differently: He won Super Bowls.

Most owners don't talk a lot during the season because most owners aren't making personnel decisions the way Snyder does. An owner who is as involved as Snyder is Jerry Jones and he speaks to the media all the time about what is going on with the team. Whatever one wants to say about Jerry Jones, at least he doesn't hide from people trying to hold him accountable for what he does. Jones generally makes poor decisions [hiring Jimmy Johnson and letting him run the team for 5 years was about the only good football decision I can think of Jones making], but at least Jones will talk about them publicly and on the record. That's a lot more than you get from Snyder.
I think Danny has stepped back over time from personnel processes. Otherwise many of our recent personnel moves would be different. I just don't see Danny's fingerprints the way that I used to.

I think it is time to move on with a new perception of Danny's roles.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:10 PM   #37
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by Spence View Post
At least Jerry Jones admits the he's making lots of personnel decisions and meets regularly with the media to discuss, explain and defend those positions. Snyder's too gutless to come out of the shadows, acknowledge what everyone already knows is the truth and face the music. Coaches and GMs around the league meet with the media to discuss and explain their decisions. Snyder, as the main personnel decision-maker, should do the same. It's cowardly to do otherwise.
Could you give us a few links of JJ coming out all the time admitting he made mistakes?
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:15 PM   #38
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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I think Danny has stepped back over time from personnel processes. Otherwise many of our recent personnel moves would be different. I just don't see Danny's fingerprints the way that I used to.

I think it is time to move on with a new perception of Danny's roles.
Very well said.

One problem is alot of people hang on to first impressions, especially when the change in behaviour is moderate or slow paced. No one is saying that DS is not involved, but he is learning to relegate himself and his opinions to a lower spot on the decision making totem pole.

a few questions for antiSnyders, and I don't know the answer, how long was JKC owner before he won his first superbowl?
Division Title?
Had a winning percentage as an owner?

I would be really curious to know those answers.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:24 PM   #39
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

Yes you do assume. Dan Snyder is not the general manager of the Redskins, Jerry Jones is the general manager of the Cowboys. Everyone wants Snyder to just say "Ok, I admit it. I'm the GM of the team. Haha, you got me. But, as hard as it is for everyone to believe, that's not the case. He is not the GM. His involvement is not the same as Jones' involvement with the Cowboys.

Snyder steps in as an abritrator between Zorn and Cerrato if necessary (just like JKC did), Snyder gets involved with signing the contract approving the money to be spent (just like JKC), Snyder gets involved, very involved, in sponsorship deals.

Snyder is consulted on roster decisions (just like JKC was). Snyder asks about certain players (just like JKC did).

Jenkins says Zorn was Snyder's selection and he should take responsibility for it. Norv Turner was JKC's selection, but I can't remember him taking responsibility for the Redskins being 3-13 in 1994, or starting 1-3 in 1995, or blowing a 7-1 start in 1996?

This isn't mean to hate on JKC at all, I thought he was a great owner. But there seems to be a lot of revisionist history about him.

As for Snyder never publicly admitting his mistakes

The Dan Snyder You Don't Know - Sports (washingtonian.com)

In his first three years as owner of the Redskins, Dan Snyder was much more successful at establishing a foundation and giving away money than at running the franchise.

“I made some real stupid decisions,” he says. “I made a lot of mistakes. I’m human.”
Snyder took over the Washington Redskins on July 14, 1999. He inherited Norv Turner as coach and Charley Casserly as general manager.

“They were fighting like cats and dogs,” he says. “We were in trouble. I couldn’t have these two guys sniping at one another.”

So he fired Casserly in September.

“You fired the wrong guy,” Casserly told him.

“If you’re right,” Snyder shot back, “you’ll be one of the first to know.”

Snyder also fired a bunch of longtime front-office workers. He brought in his own PR team, lead by Karl Swanson.

Hoping for a quick trip to the Super Bowl, he paid big money for aging stars Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders.

Snyder stuck with Norv Turner through the 1999 season, which was lackluster. With three games left in the 2000 season, the Redskins had a 7–6 record, and Snyder lost patience. He called Turner into his office at 11 am on December 4 and let him go.

“It was one of my worst moves,” he says. “It was plain stupid. I was a new owner pissed about losing.”

It was also the first move that showed fans and reporters Dan Snyder’s impatient side. In business, Snyder could replace a manager in the dead of night with a phone call. The Redskins were considered a public utility, and every move was blared in the media and dissected on sports-radio talk shows.

After Snyder fired Turner, he says, he called Casserly and said, “You were right.”

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-n...an-snyder.html (WSJ: Interview with Dan Snyder)

WSJ: Do you see the term micromanaging as being a media-driven one or do you think there are some people who think you might be a little too involved on a day-to-day basis?

Mr. Snyder: I probably was when I first got here.

Early on I probably didn't have the level of patience needed to take place when you're talking about this sport of NFL football, because it really is a building process. You build through free-agency and the draft and I think that if you can look over the years you'd see a lot of improvement over how the club goes about getting players and keeping players and re-signing our existing players.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:32 PM   #40
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

SS that was a great post.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #41
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Very well said.

One problem is alot of people hang on to first impressions, especially when the change in behaviour is moderate or slow paced. No one is saying that DS is not involved, but he is learning to relegate himself and his opinions to a lower spot on the decision making totem pole.

a few questions for antiSnyders, and I don't know the answer, how long was JKC owner before he won his first superbowl?
Division Title?
Had a winning percentage as an owner?


I would be really curious to know those answers.
From JKC's Wikipedia entry:
In 1961, Jack Kent Cooke purchased a 25 percent interest in the Washington Redskins, becoming majority owner in 1974 and sole owner in 1985.

It took him 8 years to win a Super Bowl as majority owner. He also, as majority owner, inherited a good Redskins team that had gone to the Super Bowl two years earlier.

Remember the mediocre Jack Pardee Redskins? That was under JKC's watch. The mediocre Redskins of the mid-90's? Also under JKC's watch.

I liked JKC and I am not busting on him. I'm just trying to lend some perspective.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:05 PM   #42
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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He certainly has a weighted input, but once he hires a coach, he seems to let that coach get what he wants. Now if you are saying that because he signs the checks he is the main personnel decision-maker, then every owner is by definition the "main personnel decision-maker".
Snyder doesn't even let head coaches hire their own assistant coaches. Jerry Jones does that, too. I can't think of any other NFL owners who do that. The notion that Snyder leaves his coaches alone is false.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:07 PM   #43
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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From JKC's Wikipedia entry:
In 1961, Jack Kent Cooke purchased a 25 percent interest in the Washington Redskins, becoming majority owner in 1974 and sole owner in 1985.

It took him 8 years to win a Super Bowl as majority owner. He also, as majority owner, inherited a good Redskins team that had gone to the Super Bowl two years earlier.

Remember the mediocre Jack Pardee Redskins? That was under JKC's watch. The mediocre Redskins of the mid-90's? Also under JKC's watch.

I liked JKC and I am not busting on him. I'm just trying to lend some perspective.
Nah, Jack Kent Cooke wasn't even in the DC area until later. Cooke spent most of his time in southern California and his major sports interests were there. Cooke delegated his authority over the Skins to others until he came out to Virginia full time.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:07 PM   #44
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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So glad I didn't pick up season tickets. $30-50 for nosebleeds.

Washington Redskins vs Tampa Bay Buccaneers at StubHub!

I have heard that tickets for this game are being handed away. I haven't even looked at Craig's list which should be a lot cheaper than stub hub.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:12 PM   #45
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

Smoot makes some good points. I would answer to his earlier question about other owners; from my observation, most owners only speak publicly when they need to just like CEOs, on the heels of big news, controversy, or to do damage control.

We don't see that out of Snyder, yet there is plenty of damage control that's been needed. I agree w/Matty, Snyder is not comfortable in front of the camera. To his credit, he held a press conference when ST passed away. Had he not done that, he'd really be hated!

He has a problem w/his public perception, whether deserved or not. I just don't think he shows much effort to change that perception. Should he? I guess that can be argued either way, but ultimately you would think at some point he'll have to if this team can't win regularly (see G. Steinbrenner).

To my point about the perception of him. Check the insider poll #s from today:

Redskins Insider - Take It from the Very Top
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