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Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Old 10-01-2009, 01:17 PM   #46
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by Spence View Post
Snyder doesn't even let head coaches hire their own assistant coaches. Jerry Jones does that, too. I can't think of any other NFL owners who do that. The notion that Snyder leaves his coaches alone is false.
In retrospect, maybe Snyder should have been more thorough before telling Zorn to name Sherman Smith his offensive coordinator
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:18 PM   #47
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Yes you do assume. Dan Snyder is not the general manager of the Redskins, Jerry Jones is the general manager of the Cowboys. Everyone wants Snyder to just say "Ok, I admit it. I'm the GM of the team. Haha, you got me. But, as hard as it is for everyone to believe, that's not the case. He is not the GM. His involvement is not the same as Jones' involvement with the Cowboys.
Whether Snyder holds the title of GM is not relevant. What matters is who is making the personnel decisions. Snyder is making those decisions, decisions he is not qualified to make. Those are decisions that, on almost every other team, are made by men who have spent their entire adult lives studying football.

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Snyder steps in as an abritrator between Zorn and Cerrato if necessary (just like JKC did), Snyder gets involved with signing the contract approving the money to be spent (just like JKC), Snyder gets involved, very involved, in sponsorship deals.

Snyder is consulted on roster decisions (just like JKC was). Snyder asks about certain players (just like JKC did).
If you think Snyder's involvement with personnel decisions is equivalent to Cooke's involvement in personnel decisions, then...I don't even know how to finish that sentence. I had no idea a single human being on this planet believed that. I think in the interest of maintaining good relations with others on this board, I'll end my comments on that subject right there.

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As for Snyder never publicly admitting his mistakes

The Dan Snyder You Don't Know - Sports (washingtonian.com)

In his first three years as owner of the Redskins, Dan Snyder was much more successful at establishing a foundation and giving away money than at running the franchise.

“I made some real stupid decisions,” he says. “I made a lot of mistakes. I’m human.”
Snyder took over the Washington Redskins on July 14, 1999. He inherited Norv Turner as coach and Charley Casserly as general manager.

“They were fighting like cats and dogs,” he says. “We were in trouble. I couldn’t have these two guys sniping at one another.”

So he fired Casserly in September.

“You fired the wrong guy,” Casserly told him.

“If you’re right,” Snyder shot back, “you’ll be one of the first to know.”

Snyder also fired a bunch of longtime front-office workers. He brought in his own PR team, lead by Karl Swanson.

Hoping for a quick trip to the Super Bowl, he paid big money for aging stars Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders.

Snyder stuck with Norv Turner through the 1999 season, which was lackluster. With three games left in the 2000 season, the Redskins had a 7–6 record, and Snyder lost patience. He called Turner into his office at 11 am on December 4 and let him go.

“It was one of my worst moves,” he says. “It was plain stupid. I was a new owner pissed about losing.”

It was also the first move that showed fans and reporters Dan Snyder’s impatient side. In business, Snyder could replace a manager in the dead of night with a phone call. The Redskins were considered a public utility, and every move was blared in the media and dissected on sports-radio talk shows.

After Snyder fired Turner, he says, he called Casserly and said, “You were right.”

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-n...an-snyder.html (WSJ: Interview with Dan Snyder)

WSJ: Do you see the term micromanaging as being a media-driven one or do you think there are some people who think you might be a little too involved on a day-to-day basis?

Mr. Snyder: I probably was when I first got here.

Early on I probably didn't have the level of patience needed to take place when you're talking about this sport of NFL football, because it really is a building process. You build through free-agency and the draft and I think that if you can look over the years you'd see a lot of improvement over how the club goes about getting players and keeping players and re-signing our existing players.
My goodness, you certainly are very impressed by Snyder admitting one mistake he made 9 years ago. I guess that explains everything that has happened since, eh? It explains why he fired Marty Schottenheimer, saying he wasn't having any fun. It explains the Spurrier disaster. It explains getting rid of Stephen Davis for Trung Canidate. It explains the lousy game day experience at FedEx, explains the endless wads of cash wasted on players who never performed and explains the .455 winning percentage.

Basically, this subject is divided into two opposing camps. One camp looks at that .455 winning percentage and cheers Dan Snyder for the keen insight he has brought to the franchise. Another camp looks at that .455 winning percentage, then looks around the league and is disgusted by ownership they regard as being more concerned with public relations than football games.

One camp likes being champions of the offseason. The other camp would rather be champions of the Super Bowl. The priorities are so vastly different, I can't imagine any agreement on this issue will ever emerge.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:23 PM   #48
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
In retrospect, maybe Snyder should have been more thorough before telling Zorn to name Sherman Smith his offensive coordinator
You mean that offensive coordinator who doesn't call plays? I'm sure it was tough for Snyder to give in on that. Hopefully, he wasn't too upset at settling for the entire defensive coaching staff, the special teams coach and half the offensive coaching staff. What a trooper.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:33 PM   #49
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Whether Snyder holds the title of GM is not relevant. What matters is who is making the personnel decisions. Snyder is making those decisions, decisions he is not qualified to make. Those are decisions that, on almost every other team, are made by men who have spent their entire adult lives studying football.
What matters is that you simply believe what you want to believe. Snyder could die today, we could go 1-15 for the next 10 years and you'd probably still say "Well Snyder is the one making the personnel decisions." And whatever you think of Cerrato (and Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown) what do you think they've been doing their adult lives? Do you think they were plucked from playing the piano at Nordstrom's?

Quote:
If you think Snyder's involvement with personnel decisions is equivalent to Cooke's involvement in personnel decisions, then...I don't even know how to finish that sentence. I had no idea a single human being on this planet believed that. I think in the interest of maintaining good relations with others on this board, I'll end my comments on that subject right there.
Again, this is all based on your assumptions about what Snyder does.

Quote:
My goodness, you certainly are very impressed by Snyder admitting one mistake he made 9 years ago. I guess that explains everything that has happened since, eh? It explains why he fired Marty Schottenheimer, saying he wasn't having any fun. It explains the Spurrier disaster. It explains getting rid of Stephen Davis for Trung Canidate. It explains the lousy game day experience at FedEx, explains the endless wads of cash wasted on players who never performed and explains the .455 winning percentage.
Just pointing out that Snyder's admitted mistakes in the past. The Schottenheimer situation was bad all around (Snyder and players at fault), I wish Marty was still here. I won't even continue with the rest because it's been rehashed over and over again.

Quote:
Basically, this subject is divided into two opposing camps. One camp looks at that .455 winning percentage and cheers Dan Snyder for the keen insight he has brought to the franchise. Another camp looks at that .455 winning percentage, then looks around the league and is disgusted by ownership they regard as being more concerned with public relations than football games.

One camp likes being champions of the offseason. The other camp would rather be champions of the Super Bowl. The priorities are so vastly different, I can't imagine any agreement on this issue will ever emerge.
It's divided into two opposing camps. One camp that is frustrated at the .455 winning percentage, wants to win the Super Bowl, accepts that as a franchise we have made mistakes, realizes that we have also made wise decisions, recognizes that perception is not always reality, understands that past ownership had its "flaws", realizes this ownership isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and doesn't assume what this ownership group does and what other owners do...the other camp believes what they want to believe
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:37 PM   #50
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:
Quote:
"Let me tell you the truth: Dan does make I think most of those big-type decisions," Michael said. "He says 'Let's get this guy, let's get that guy.' And the guy that takes the heat for it--and it's why I think he's never gotten fired--is Vinny Cerrato. Now, Cerrato's painted as a bozo, but the truth is, what did Vinny Cerrato do for the team? Look at Chris Horton. That's the kind of guy he gets."
Source
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:42 PM   #51
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

Spence there is no reasoning with SS on the topic of the DS. he has his opinion, the majority of skins fans have a different one.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:45 PM   #52
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:Source
Just read that. Fascinating interview. Love the comment about Zorn and improvement. We lose to the Lions and we improved. Hate to see what a step back would be.

Why would anyone doubt Snyder's involvement in personnel matters? The players usually confirm that after getting their big deals and thanking Snyder for his personal involvement. Of course Snyder is involved, that is why we have NO GM. Why do we think, Zorn is making the decisions to sign Haynesworth? Ummmmm, yeah right.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:49 PM   #53
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:Source
Here's a question. What does this mean?

Does it mean that Snyder, independent of Zorn and Snyder decided to go get this guy? Or does it mean Cerrato and staff did their yearly FA class evaluations and gave glowing reports on AH which caused Snyder to go get him. Big difference to me.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:54 PM   #54
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Here's a question. What does this mean?

Does it mean that Snyder, independent of Zorn and Snyder decided to go get this guy? Or does it mean Cerrato and staff did their yearly FA class evaluations and gave glowing reports on AH which caused Snyder to go get him. Big difference to me.
I think it means two things.

1. The meaning of what Michael said about Snyder's role is perfectly plain;
2. Those who like Snyder do not judge him by any tangible criteria [such as wins and losses] and are therefore unlikely to be impressed by any sort of argument against him, regardless of the facts or supporting evidence.

Therefore, debates like these can be diverting for a few minutes, but are ultimately fruitless. Two people will never agree on something if they use entirely different criteria to judge that subject. People like me judge Snyder based on the available evidence -- wins and losses. People who oppose my view of Snyder judge him on other criteria. I do not pretend to know exactly what that criteria might be, but I know it isn't wins and losses.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:16 PM   #55
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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What matters is that you simply believe what you want to believe. Snyder could die today, we could go 1-15 for the next 10 years and you'd probably still say "Well Snyder is the one making the personnel decisions." And whatever you think of Cerrato (and Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown) what do you think they've been doing their adult lives? Do you think they were plucked from playing the piano at Nordstrom's?



Again, this is all based on your assumptions about what Snyder does.



Just pointing out that Snyder's admitted mistakes in the past. The Schottenheimer situation was bad all around (Snyder and players at fault), I wish Marty was still here. I won't even continue with the rest because it's been rehashed over and over again.



It's divided into two opposing camps. One camp that is frustrated at the .455 winning percentage, wants to win the Super Bowl, accepts that as a franchise we have made mistakes, realizes that we have also made wise decisions, recognizes that perception is not always reality, understands that past ownership had its "flaws", realizes this ownership isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and doesn't assume what this ownership group does and what other owners do...the other camp believes what they want to believe
Couldn't be said any better.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:26 PM   #56
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

You know what. Seriously, whatever Dan Snyder likes we are trained to go against it. Remember when Dan Snyder was searching for his coach and the one pet peeve that the media had was that he was going to go out and get an established guy to see if he could recreate success there ? How he should go and find an unknown to be his guy for the future ? Remember how another big complaint was that he wanted to force the incoming coach to have Jason Campbell as his QB ? Oh yes, there was a time when JC was Snyders guy. And as soon as he gets Zorn, why him ? Why not a more established guy. Then do you remember over the summer when Danny wanted to get another Qb, all of a sudden Campbell is a great QB just on the brink of greatness ? It's the hatred of the Danny that drives some people.

I mean it is really ridiculous Spense how you can even make it like keeping everything outside of the offense as intact as you can as a bad thing. We complain about the lack of continuity and when you get that there is a problem. That's what I'm talking about !
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:41 PM   #57
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[QUOTE=freddyg12;600270]Searched elsewhere for this on the wp & almost put it in an existing thread ("Lavar's twitter" led to discussion of our owner).

But I felt it was such a strong & well written article that it had to stand alone. I know a lot of us have been unhappy w/Sally Jenkins over the years, but based on my limited knowledge as only a fan, I really find it hard to disagree w/most of what she says. I've always felt the biggest difference between JJ & DS was that Jerry is at least accessible to the public & makes himself somewhat accountable.

Here's the link:



Agree fully. About the only thing Jenkins left out was the appropriate last line: "resign, you silly twit, and let an adult take over!"

As good old Ken Beatrice used to say, "a fish rots from the head." Zorn and Campbell may be in over their heads, but they're doing the best they can. Let's put the blame on the idiots who hired them, noting that these are only two of the many disastrous moves they've made.

Many of us remember Jack Kent Cooke, who may not have been one of nature's noblemen as a human being, but who, in retrospect, was a superb owner. He hired professionals and gave them time to get the job done. He demanded long-term competence but never interfered short-term.

I had been a Redskins fan since 1971, but, as of last Sunday night, I've checked out until Snyder sells the team. As a protest, I'll be rooting for the Steelers until that happens. Why the Steelers? Simple. They exemplify the kind of ownership and management needed in Washington.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:46 PM   #58
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

And that exemplifies the kind of bandwagon jumping that got the Cowboys so many fans in the 90s. I don't root for owners, I root for the damn team and players who are trying so hard for us.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:46 PM   #59
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

Well if you'll be rooting for the Steelers why don't you join a Steelers board ? Or change your avatar ? I don't understand "longtime fans" like you. Did you feel that way in '05 ? Doubt it, go on and cheer for the Steelers and have a good time with your towels.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:50 PM   #60
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

Here are a couple of JKC articles that make for an interesting read

A Foundation for Success - Redskins: Owner Jack Kent Cooke and Coach Joe Gibbs enjoy a strong working relationship after three Super Bowls and several tough losses. (page 2) - Los Angeles Times

In his own estimation, at least, Jack Kent Cooke, the - 12.16.91 - SI Vault

And here's another interesting article from 15 years ago

That's what the fans are asking as the Washington - 10.03.94 - SI Vault
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