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Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Old 10-02-2009, 02:10 PM   #106
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

Stubblefield, amazingly enough, wasn't a Snyder/Cerrato decision either.

Oh, and puck Fittsburgh ...
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:11 PM   #107
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
You sound like Michael Wilbon, which is a compliment btw. Wilbon et al (including Sally) have often said the "culture" of the organization is dysfunctional. That's something that becomes really tough for someone on the outside to debate, but there have been plenty of signs to indicate that's true.

Case in point, let's look back at Zorn's hiring; it was reported that Snyder had said GW made disparaging remarks about Gibbs, that Spagnola said he was offered the job but the redskins denied the offer, and that Fassell was led to believe he might get the job. Add to that, Zorn was already hired as O coordinator & a Blache was on board as d coordinator.

Even if all of the above isn't true, how can an organization have so much drama out in the air over hiring a head coach? Is it true that not many coaches are interested in the job, and Zorn was about the only guy that would take it?

Reports such as these by reputable journalists (Adam Schefler (sp?)) lead me to believe that there is a negative work culture in this organization. Joe Gibbs' gift was to shield his players from it & get them to focus on football. I don't know if Zorn has that ability.

I agree it is the Culture. Starting with DS and even us fans. Other fans are critical of their QBs. But we take it to the extreme. I dont think we will ever see a QB blossom here. It would have to be perfect circumstances for a rookie QB to reach his potential here. He would have no learning curve. HE would have to come right in and play like a pro bowler. We never have been in rebuilding mode. Have we? That's the problem with our team and is very much part of the Skins "current culture". We have unrealistic expectations every year and when we get our feelings hurt we take it out on certain players instead of realizing no matter how many acquisitions we make we actually should have been in rebuilding mode but we were in denial. -- We were actually rebuidling but sold a dream along with it. Most teams bite the bullet and start over from scratch but the Fo can't swallow its pride so our climb back to respectability takes even longer than most teams. We are not living in reality. When we boo when we win. That's a perfect example. But let some people tell it. JC is the anti-christ. lol
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:13 PM   #108
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
What exactly do you think NFL scouts do?
Honestly I can't figure out what ours does to get paid for?

but I thought the blogger that I responded to was refering to how Cerrato has done so many great things in his college days and in the NFL with the 49ers. I was arguing that I was not sure what his roll was at the college level perhaps the same job he's doing now but in the NFL he record is not good.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:17 PM   #109
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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To me, the problem with the Redskins is not the acquisition of talent. Vinny has done a reasonable job of putting capable players on the field.

The problem is that, once they are on the roster, players regularly underperform. I do not think that that is a problem which arises from Vinny. That is a problem with the team culture.
How much of the underperformance is that the HC is not utilizing his talent the best way he can? How much is it that the coach's will not alter their scheme to fit the players we have? I can't imagine we have a whole team of crappy or underperformers. Which to me points the finger back at the coaching staff for not actually putting the players in the best possible situation to win.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:18 PM   #110
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

I don't think that JC is the anti-christ, that's a bit of a stretch but I don't think that he is a franchise QB either.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:23 PM   #111
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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I don't think that JC is the anti-christ, that's a bit of a stretch but I don't think that he is a franchise QB either.
There are QBs that aren't "franchise QBs" but they still win Superbowls. Trent Dilfer, Gannon, etc. And there are franchise QB's that never win a Superbowl.

It takes a team to win the superbowl. If everyone plays well and as a solid team. then that's when we will succed. can have the best Qb in the world. If we dont have the right coaching system and players and FO to set him up to succeed he will fail also. That's what people fail to realize.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:51 PM   #112
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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There are QBs that aren't "franchise QBs" but they still win Superbowls. Trent Dilfer, Gannon, etc. And there are franchise QB's that never win a Superbowl.

It takes a team to win the superbowl. If everyone plays well and as a solid team. then that's when we will succed. can have the best Qb in the world. If we dont have the right coaching system and players and FO to set him up to succeed he will fail also. That's what people fail to realize.
I agree, Gibbs won 2 of his 3 super bowls w/guys that simply fit his system (Theisman in his best years, was a legit pro-bowler). I know that was some time ago, but at present I would argue that over half of the teams in the nfl have starting qb's that have or are playing at pro bowl levels. Any of those guys can win a super bowl if they are on a pretty good, yet not even great, team. I don't know if I'd say JC is better than half the starters in the nfl, but I think he can lead this team all the way if the O line is rebuilt w/talent & youth & the d plays like it used to under GW.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:16 PM   #113
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

Of course it's "the culture."

Debating how Holmgren might work with Shanahan, or Cowher, or any other proven coach is beside the point as long as Snyder reserves the right to make or veto personnel decisions. I suspect that none of these guys will work for Snyder for just that reason. You also can bet that, if any such proven football coach accepts an offer in Washington, he will have sold his soul for big money.

Danny must go, or the disease will just keep festering.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:26 PM   #114
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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I'm sorry and I REALLY tried to be objective when reading that, but seriously, that just sounds absolutely stupid. So basically by your logic, you're rooting for the Steeler's management? Who gives a crap about the players or the coaches, it's the owner that I root for? Not only that, why not the Patriots? Why not any other team that looks like it "has" a plan? Is it because the Steelers won the Super Bowl last year?

Honestly, if you say that the ultimate goal of the NFL is the win the Super Bowl, then you might say the Steelers along with a lot of other teams over that span have been mired in mediocrity playoff-wise. The Patriots are really the only team who seem to fit your "bill". It's easy to be like, "Awesome! We won again." But in my opinion it would be ALMOST as maddening to be a fan of the Chargers or the Colts. While both are consistently good, they both don't do well in the playoffs (with the exception of the Colts Super Bowl year).

Your argument just sounds ridiculous. It's like you just want to be a front-runner like every other half-hearted Skins fan.

I might not be speaking for the entire fan base, but believe me when I say that we will NOT miss you at all.
No, Malcolm, I'm not rooting for the Steelers' management. Let me try again.

The Steelers have had three coaches over the last thirty-eight years. They've had a consistent policy of building through the draft with a concentration on offensive and defensive lines, then skill offensive players, linebackers, and defensive backs. They usually have winning seasons. When they don't, they don't panic and lunge after some savior free agent, wasting multiple draft picks in the process. Over time, that builds team cohesiveness, or, if you like, a positive culture. Management, players, and fans are on the same page, working together. They aren't at the mercy of a single megalomaniac and his pet toady.

To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:28 PM   #115
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
Stubblefield, amazingly enough, wasn't a Snyder/Cerrato decision either.

Oh, and puck Fittsburgh ...
Basically after the '91 season the team has been stuck in mediocrity... there were plenty of poor decisions made before Danny got here.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:35 PM   #116
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by MrSpectre View Post
To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.
This is a Skins board, you're a Steeler fan. Why are you posting here? I think SS said it was steelernation.com. Have at it. There's too many idiot fans here for a smart guy like you anyway.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:01 PM   #117
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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No, Malcolm, I'm not rooting for the Steelers' management. Let me try again.

The Steelers have had three coaches over the last thirty-eight years. They've had a consistent policy of building through the draft with a concentration on offensive and defensive lines, then skill offensive players, linebackers, and defensive backs. They usually have winning seasons. When they don't, they don't panic and lunge after some savior free agent, wasting multiple draft picks in the process. Over time, that builds team cohesiveness, or, if you like, a positive culture. Management, players, and fans are on the same page, working together. They aren't at the mercy of a single megalomaniac and his pet toady.

To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.
If you were previously a fan, then there is really no excuse. Maybe if you just started liking football and get a chub over well-run organizations, I MIGHT see some validity.

I'm always going to be a fan of the team first. Sure, the owner is part of the team, but there are plenty of other people that I truly root for. I'm not a Snyder fan myself, but because he doesn't run the team the way I like, I'm not going to change my loyalty.

Sounds like a really lame excuse to change.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:03 PM   #118
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Basically after the '91 season the team has been stuck in mediocrity... there were plenty of poor decisions made before Danny got here.
true, and the r. petibon year (93-4) was maybe the worst season in modern franchise history.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:18 PM   #119
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

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Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
You sound like Michael Wilbon, which is a compliment btw. Wilbon et al (including Sally) have often said the "culture" of the organization is dysfunctional. That's something that becomes really tough for someone on the outside to debate, but there have been plenty of signs to indicate that's true.
Only speaking from my personal experience, there has been since the days of John Kent Cooke (and I don't really know the Gibbs 2.0 years too well) a lack of harmony within the organization. I would say it was ultra competitive in there and no one really had much fun, and the trust levels could be alarmingly low.

The culture needs to be feng shui'd
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:42 PM   #120
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Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on

I think Dan Snyder has a number of redeeming qualities. Snyder can be quite generous, very good to players who are in his good graces, and almost eager to open up his wallet to give our team quality players. Moreover, I think he's gets unfairly blamed for a lot of our on-field struggles.

However, let's face it, Snyder is not a "football guru" and he should not routinely and unilaterally determine which players we target in the draft and in the offseason. That's why it's so troubling to hear from George Michael that Snyder is doing just that. Apparently, he's learned a lot over the past 10 years, but he hasn't learned enough to realize to leave those kinds of decisions to the head coach and Vinny Cerrato.
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