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It's a joy watching other teams play

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Old 10-13-2009, 01:48 AM   #106
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.
Agreed GTripp. One of the things I find interesting when people talk about Zorn is this. The o-line sucks..I think everyone agrees. Dropped balls, penalties, fumbles, missed blocks, missed assignments etc. have killed us. Zorn calls a play and it doesn't work..he's a dumbass. With the way this team is playing...what makes anyone think the call they would have made, would be executed the way it's suppose to? I agree he's called some questionable plays, but he's also called some good ones that the players just flatout F'd up. Batiste has to play because the FO doesn't, apparently, think the o-line is important and he has to change his calls because JC is about to get killed if he calls anything that takes time to develop. He's obviously inexperienced but he catches a lot of flack that would better be directly somewhere else. And yes..he is wearing too many hats....I believe he got them from the FO.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:56 AM   #107
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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One of the things I find interesting when people talk about Zorn is this. The o-line sucks..I think everyone agrees. Dropped balls, penalties, fumbles, missed blocks, missed assignments etc. have killed us. Zorn calls a play and it doesn't work..he's a dumbass. With the way this team is playing...what makes anyone think the call they would have made would be executed the way it's suppose to? I agree he's called some questionable plays, but he's also called some good ones that the players just flatout F'd up. Batiste has to play because the FO doesn't, apparently, think the o-line is important and he has to change his calls because JC is about to get killed if he calls anything that takes time to develop. He's obviously inexperienced but he catches a lot of flack that would better be directly somewhere else. And yes..he is wearing too many hats....I believe he got them from the FO.
But see those two things, play calling and execution, are both related. When a team doesn't execute properly, that's symptomatic of something else. Perhaps lack of confidence of the strategy or the call. It all goes back to coaching in some form.

Bottom line, this team isn't prepared week in and week out. And that's on Zorn.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:23 AM   #108
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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Not trying to absolve Zorn from putting himself in a situation he couldn't handle, but I think he was more than willing to take whatever he could get.
Oh definitely, opportunity of a lifetime. They could've told him he had to paint the lines on the field and he would've obliged.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:24 AM   #109
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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Look, Campbell isn't able to make the reads because he's not making the reads. It's as simple as that. Sure his handlers may be impacting his production some and, yes, this is his second year in the WCO. But tonight I watched, essentially, two rookie quarterbacks make a few bone headed plays, but they also made a lot of throws in some tight spaces and kept their teams in the game down the wire. That's not all coaching, that's guys playing football. In Sanchez' case, with a guy who just arrived 72 hours ago!

Jason Campbell is a football player and, at some point, his football instincts have to kick in regardless of who's coaching him and what plays are being called.
I've made the same argument but you can make a guy overthink too.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:25 AM   #110
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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But see those two things, play calling and execution, are both related. When a team doesn't execute properly, that's symptomatic of something else. Perhaps lack of confidence of the strategy or the call. It all goes back to coaching in some form.

Bottom line, this team isn't prepared week in and week out. And that's on Zorn.
Yes it will fall on Zorn. But you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. He has what he has to work with and frankly, it's not much. This organization still hasn't learned how important an O-line is. I'm not taking blame away from Zorn completely. He picked out most of the O assistants, but he probably shouldn't have with no more experience than he has. Zorn can't do it himself and I don't think his assistants are all that great to be honest. They are just as responsible for preparing that part of the team that they coach as he is. What else are they here for?
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:26 AM   #111
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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Yes it will fall on Zorn. But you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.
Blache?
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:29 AM   #112
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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Blache?
The Bible I think. All I'm saying is that any good leader, whether it's business or football, surrounds himself with good people. I'm not sure Zorn has. You surround yourself w/friends, it doesn't always workout for the best. Snyder/Vinny. Maybe Zorn needs to just stop trying to run the whole show and learn to delegate and hold his assistants accountable and they'd all be better off.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:20 AM   #113
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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The Bible I think. All I'm saying is that any good leader, whether it's business or football, surrounds himself with good people. I'm not sure Zorn has. You surround yourself w/friends, it doesn't always workout for the best. Snyder/Vinny. Maybe Zorn needs to just stop trying to run the whole show and learn to delegate and hold his assistants accountable and they'd all be better off.
Interestingly, when Zorn first came, one of his statements was that Holmgren had taught him the art of delegating. I am confident if you asked Zorn today, "what job duties could you give to another coach to help you be more effective?" His answer would be none. And that is why he is over his head. He thinks he has to have every part in place before he makes a decision. So while his playcall may be spot on, his situational reactions are much much slower.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:28 AM   #114
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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We'll see. Pretty early to say they won't make the playoffs, no? They just took the lead on a nice throw by Henne, and if they hang on they'll be a game out of first in the AFC East with 3/4 of the season yet to play. Their o-line is young, their QB is young, the WRs are young, and they have a pretty stout D by the looks of it. Anyone talking about the Dolphins as a league joke?

I'd take Miami over the Skins in a heartbeat right now.
If they had fallen to 1-4 they would have been hanging from a very thin thread.

I like their overall situation too, I was just talking strictly W/L.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:41 AM   #115
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.
I'm sure Snyder was impressed w/ Zorn but Zorn was not our first or second choice. I've got to believe he was a desperation hire. Cowher, Spags, Fassel all didn't work out (in Fassel's case, i think he was hired and Snyder changed his mind after a fan uproar).

What's troubling to me is that Snyder was "shocked" when JG's retired. Shocked? How can you run your organization w/out a "short" list of potential candidates especially when your coach, JG, was old and going on the 5th year of a 5 yr deal.

In hind sight, we did interview Josh McDaniel's, Ryan, Schwartz, and Spags...and we ended up w/ Jim Zorn? How did that happen?
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:54 PM   #116
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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Willingness to spend and desire to win doesn't mean a thing unfortunately. Snyder still hasn't learned that big names/big dollars do not = wins. As evidenced by how hard he's pushing for Shanahan.

If he's got such a hard on to win and spend money, then back the Brinks truck up in the driveway of a good GM.
You're absoutely right. We have needed that for years. But it appears Snyder doesn't want to let go.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:03 PM   #117
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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Didn't watch the game wouldn't know. Either way they still lost.

Anyhow, I just find it funny how when the Redskins lose this board suddenly has no trouble finding all the great things about every other team in the NFL. Like everybody else is flawless and has all the answers to everything...though no one is really talking much about the Brown, Rams, Bills, Jaguars, or Raiders today...
Because of 1 thread?
Listen, the skins are sucking...a lot of us use the Skins as a way to get away from reality. We love the skins like family, and sometimes you need to bitch about family. I understand you want to try to go against the grain and show us the lighter side or the "it's not as bad as you think" side, but fact is, unless we make the playoffs, most of us will consider this season a huge bust. Guess what, we are NOT making the playoffs playing like this. Someone needs to light a fire under this team, and if that means throwing Zorn out on his ear, then so be it.
You pointed out the Browns / Rams (who we almost lost to), Bills, Jags, and Raiders as teams we are not talking too much about. Why should we? They suck, and we have similarities to those teams which upsets most of us cause this should NOT have happened. For most of us to face facts that we are a bottom 10 teams (or worse) hurts. Let em grieve.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:41 PM   #118
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

You know what was sad was watching the Dolphins yesterday line up in a running formation and the Jets defense knew what was coming and they couldn't stop it. It really hearkened back to when the Hogs and Riggins used to cram it down people's throats. Just sad to watch our once proud franchise of great tradition and winning join the ranks of the lions, Rams, and Buccaneers.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:43 PM   #119
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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You know what was sad was watching the Dolphins yesterday line up in a running formation and the Jets defense knew what was coming and they couldn't stop it. It really hearkened back to when the Hogs and Riggins used to cram it down people's throats. Just sad to watch our once proud franchise of great tradition and winning join the ranks of the lions, Rams, and Buccaneers.
I liked the QB draw and the roll-outs as well. 2 things Campbell CAN do well.

BTW, anyone notice Chase Daniels was waived? I'm sure it's been mentioned already.
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:06 PM   #120
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Re: It's a joy watching other teams play

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I'm sure Snyder was impressed w/ Zorn but Zorn was not our first or second choice. I've got to believe he was a desperation hire. Cowher, Spags, Fassel all didn't work out (in Fassel's case, i think he was hired and Snyder changed his mind after a fan uproar).

What's troubling to me is that Snyder was "shocked" when JG's retired. Shocked? How can you run your organization w/out a "short" list of potential candidates especially when your coach, JG, was old and going on the 5th year of a 5 yr deal.

In hind sight, we did interview Josh McDaniel's, Ryan, Schwartz, and Spags...and we ended up w/ Jim Zorn? How did that happen?
Nobody wanted to work here, but they were interested in the offer$
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